British woman 'arrested in Dubai after reporting rape'

[gluteustothemaximus]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38013351

Just don't even know what to say to this

[Tropezienne]

User didnt you have a load of hateful posts deleted earlier in this thread? I'm not sure what your game is..?

[BoffeeToffin]

A real username (not your real name, obviously) is the convention of the site and makes it easier for others to chat to you.

There are a myriad of user-numberstrings, many of whom are user147... at present and it's easy to lose track.

You will have a better experience of the site with a better name, as responding to JellyfishCrumble, say, is easier than the alternative.

However, it's quite possible you don't care about having a good experience of the site or making it more pleasant for others to interact with you. In which case

[PoochSmooch]

Wait, what?

She makes an allegation of rape and is jailed for extramarital sex. The rape is then "proved to be consensual" (whatever that might mean), and she gets let out of jail, because she had consensual sex. That is messed up! She doesn't get punished for the act she consented to, but DOES get punished for the act that she couldn't consent to?

Something stinks here.

[WhisperingLoudly]

Reading the reports I'm not sure she was arrested I think (And I have some experience of the UAE legal system) she had her passport seized and was unable to leave the country which is standard practice for any foreign witness in any criminal offence.

[KindDogsTail]

How can it be that the UAE authorities say the video 'shows it was consensual' do you think? Just that she wasn't fighting and screaming?

I have been trying to look up their laws: www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/international-coverage-of-uae-law-ignorance-is-no-excuse#page2

"If a women is under the influence of alcohol and there has been fondling and she has agreed to go with the suspect to a private place, then the court might consider this as consensual sex."

"Every factor is considered, like how far or strongly did the victim resist," he says*."

"The incident might have started out by force then the victim might have got aroused and consented. If this is the case then they will both be charged with adultery."

It would be more than strange if she had had consensual sex then, gone to the police, in a foreign country, with all that entails, to falsely say she'd been raped.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

We're all adults here, having a healthy discussion*

"We're all adults here" oh how that phrase irritates. You just know it's a preface to something obnoxious.


[BoffeeToffin]

How true, Lass.

[BoffeeToffin]

Thanks, KindDog

So the video might be CCTV showing her speaking with one of the men in a club or restaurant, perhaps kissing and leaving together, and then that might be enough to fall into that first category.

Any thoughts, user147?

I have to say, if I had a sudden urge to make up a rape allegation against british and I was British, i would surely figure out doing it in Britain was safer.

But I guess if you start from the premise that women are generally liars about consent, you can bend your mind to all sorts of things. You aren't starting from that premise, are you, user147?

[PoochSmooch]

Those guidelines are horrific. More like a list of rape myths. urgh.

Totally agree boffee.

[T2K]

aka, User147... (not the one who was apparently banned/kicked out)

Kissing in a club, lift & corridor is pretty irrelevant in my view. The CCTV could show her dragging both men into the bedroom, that doesn't constitute consent and I like to think (naively?) the police wouldn't confuse the point. Nice view? Amazing bathroom? Interesting carpet pattern? Admittedly, If your all over each other as you enter the room, it might make it a tricky argument in court but consent is consent.

I am (again naively?) going off my ingrained 'trust the police' thought pattern when I hear 'video showed consent' and assume some form of sex tape, ie it actually showed her happily engaged in it. The fact they are Dubai police makes me uneasy though & having slept on it I am swinging back the other way towards 'Dubai police aren't to be trusted'.

As for Dubai & the ilk, I have a deep disdain for them. I don't like the way they treat/think of women, I don't like the reports of their cheap labour and I don't like the fact these stories keep coming up. Whilst it ticks every single box for me holiday wise, the principles of that corner of the world disgust me. My parents didn't follow a job over there for this very reason.

I posted due to some of the early comments along the lines of ''another reason to hate men'' when there was evidence being unearthed about the possibility of it being consensual. I also feel somewhat uneasy about the fact the 2 ''suspects'' were publicly hanged (an over dramatised statement by me I admit). Posting their names, pictures, jobs etc when they may well be innocent guarantees them a very difficult few years ahead. That's a whole different discussion though.

[Tropezienne]

Users earlier posts were just hateful, foul mouthed rants about men. So I'm wondering what this person's game is?

[slenderisthenight]

It's absolutely horrendous that this happened. I have great respect for the victim for challenging the legal system there by forcing them to publicly deal with an accusation of rape. As heinous as it is, at least this incident has drawn public attention to it.

In the past I have suggested women may wish to lower their chances of being picked off by a predator through not getting blind drunk on their own or going home with someone they don't know. Those suggestions were shouted down as repressive and victim blaming

So it's interesting to see that this poor woman has been blamed on this thread for not staying out of Dubai and other misogynistic. countries, and for trying to report such a crime. I don't think she did anything wrong or 'reckless' and it's rather bad form to suggest, at this stage, that she has.

Quite often on this board I've seen that women can be ashamed and victims can be blamed - but only if the high profile feminist/regular posters have decided they ' deserve it '. This is in one situation in which it was most certainly not 'deserved'.

[TheVermiciousKnid]

Different User147..., Tropezienne. That's the problem with not changing the user name.

I agree that it would seem very, very unlikely that a woman would make up a rape allegation in Dubai and then report it to the police. And we know that even in this country some people have very odd ideas about what 'consensual' means - in some people's minds a woman has given consent if she's been talking to a man beforehand...

I suppose we'll never know exactly what happened. In a way it would be helpful if there could be some sort of inquiry in the UK in cases like this, to establish what happened. But I assume there is no basis in law for this.

[Xenophile]

Slender, have you noticed a correlation between "high profile posters" and victim blaming on this thread? As someone who probably fits your criteria, let me reiterate for you that nothing this woman did meant that she deserved anything. Let me further suggest that you go back and read those posts again on this thread because not a single one blamed the woman for men raping her, they were more around why she expected the country to take her being raped seriously, given their legal system.

So, not victim blaming for the rape at all.

[slenderisthenight]

It seems that the dubai authorities have an agenda not to prosecute rape and also to penalise women who report rape. The apparent illogical nature of the decisions makes sense to me. They are no longer using the sexual relations law in any real sense. It's there simply to being as a discouragement to rape victims. So that effectually means it's illegal to be raped but not to have sex. I don't think there's anything truly cultural or religious about this-it's just sexism dressed up as the law of the country. A game.

[slenderisthenight]

You're obviously reading selectively x but I couldn't give a damn about your opinion frankly. I will ignore future posts from you
.

[Xenophile]

Of course you will. Nice name change by the way.

[Xenophile]

However, just out of interest, which "high profile posters" have actually blamed the victim for being raped as compared to them asking what she expected from reporting rape in a country with religious laws along these lines? I am genuinely interested in how I have misread these posts.

[slenderisthenight]

Nope, not biting, sorry! I wouldn't discuss the weather with you.

[Xenophile]

And yet you did respond

[Soubriquet]

I'm not blaming the woman at all

Im blaming the country for going after the woman and not the men.

Difference

[slenderisthenight]

Not you sob- no need to be patronising.

Vestal and lass I think...who is Not A Feminist, I know!

[Tropezienne]

Its incredibly simplistic and alright for some, to say women should just stay away from Islamic countries. What do you say to someone who is unemployed, skint, has debts, and kids to support but gets a descent job offer in the UAE for good money and a chance to build a career for herself by spending a while there working?

Women will travel but when travelling to this state, or any other Islamic country they should report this type of thing to their embassy rather than the Police. The authorities will automatically see HER as having offended the Shariah and she will be punished for it. Sounds like this woman might have got off lightly !

[PoochSmooch]

No idea where you're going with that, slender. (Or should I say where you've gone with it?)

I don't think any of us, including Lass, would be happy if she were to be held up as the typical FWR poster.

I don't think Vestal victim blames at all. And she is, after all, just one poster of many here. There's no hive mind.

[slenderisthenight]

For the intentionally hard of thinking, where I'm going with it (or have gone with it!) is this.

Women can travel to, and live in, any country in the world. They should not feel there are places where they 'should not' go because they are women. If they choose to go somewhere with risks and are assaulted, they are in no way to blame for what has happened. It should not be suggested that they are to blame, or that they should not have gone there in the first place.

It doesn't matter who you are. Saying, 'this is one time when I feel like victim blaming' is not on. It's exactly the same problem regardless of the speaker. If it's not ok when said by a man, or by another women who isn't 'in the club', then it's not ok, period. Likewise, it's not ok to attempt to shame or punish another woman no matter who you are and no matter how much you do for women generally. The rules apply to everyone.

I know women who have been brave enough to carry out support work in places like Dubai. They are aware of the risks. It would be oppressive and wrong to suggest that they 'shouldn't' be there because of those risks - or to comment on their behaviour in being there if they were to be assaulted.