British woman 'arrested in Dubai after reporting rape'

[gluteustothemaximus]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38013351

Just don't even know what to say to this

[Tropezienne]

The problem is very much the application of Shariah law Fresh. Shariah/Islamic law allows a deeply misogynistic and intolerant culture to exist unquestioned.

The fact that it is applied erratically and hypocritically only makes it worse.

[Tropezienne]

Ok, I didn't see your 2nd post.

[Dervel]

I'm fairly certain there are laws on the books in the U.K. That mean men can't just go and commit sex crimes abroad. Can they be brought to justice here?

[FreshwaterSelkie]

Hope the second post explained it more clearly, tropezienne.

If you were in, say, Saudi or Iran, you would know what kind of place you're in. The expected behaviour is very clearly set out, whether you approve of it or not.

The problem in Dubai is that it wants to be seen as forward thinking, so it is actually very permissive, but that conflicts with a lot of Islamic values. There is a tension there.

I'm no cultural relativist, or apologist for Sharia law, which I think is misogynistic to the core, and backwards. But it's not as simple as saying "The UAE is governed by Sharia law, and is therefore incompatible with western ideals of human rights" - it's a little more nuanced than that, I think.

[Tropezienne]

I agree, anyone travelling to any other country/culture should respect the laws and customs.

But how on Earth can you say that Sharia law isn't absolutely incompatible with western standards of human rights?

[VestalVirgin]

If you were in, say, Saudi or Iran, you would know what kind of place you're in. The expected behaviour is very clearly set out, whether you approve of it or not.

While Dubai tricks you into thinking they are not misogynistic, when actually, they are.
That's especially vile.

[FreshwaterSelkie]

I didn't say that, trop?

[Tropezienne]

Ok you said it's more nuanced than that. I dont really know what you mean. Are you talking about personal responsibility?

[FreshwaterSelkie]

no, I'm not talking about personal responsibility. I'm not really sure what I can add to my previous posts- there's a dichotomy and a tension between what Dubai is and what it wants to be, between backwards values and modern forward thinking ones. That's what I'm trying to articulate. I personally believe that there is a universal set of basic human values and rights - and they are secular, so sharia law will never meet those. but writing off states that try to modernise doesn't really move anything forward.

[Tropezienne]

OK I see. Its just that you said you believe that Sharia law is misogynistic and backwards. But then, that situation in The UAE is more nuanced? I just didn't understand in what way that was meant? To be honest, I still don't.

I can't really see in what way The UAE can modernise, socially/politically anyway? It certainly is wealthy enough to what they likes but there, rape is acceptable, Sharia law reigns and women have no rights. So how 'modern' could it ever get?

[Miffer]

FreshwaterSelkie

I know it doesn't matter but I really have to say they were not my friends. They were DH's family, if they were my friends they wouldn't have been after that conversation. =D

[FreshwaterSelkie]

Trop, the kind of nuance I'm talking about is like in the phrase "sharia law reigns" - it doesn't. There is a system of civil and criminal courts in Dubai, that as I understand it, sit alongside the Sharia courts. Not everything is tried within a Sharia system. The laws and legal customs are a bit of a mixed bag - some British influences, some Islamic, due to the history of the Emirates, how they were founded etc. But I'm not sure how interested anyone would be in my meanderings on Islamic jurisprudence so I'll probably leave that there. I'm still thinking about the woman in the OP, and I'm glad to see that the gofundme has raised over and above the estimated cost of her legal fees, so hopefully it will help.

I agree with you in asking the question "how modern could it ever get". I don't know the answer, but I knew I didn't want to live there while they figured it out.

Sorry miffer, I misrepresented your post!

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

I'm fairly certain there are laws on the books in the U.K. That mean men can't just go and commit sex crimes abroad. Can they be brought to justice here?

The UK has promulgated extraterritorial laws on child prostitution but generally the responsibility for prosecuting a crime committed by a foreign national remains with the jurisdiction where it was committed.

[Tropezienne]

The UAE is a country where Islamic / Shariah law is applicable and so its standards of 'justice' reflect Islamic values. I am disappointed that no body wants to say this, but it needs to be discussed.

Marte Dalelv, was another one and there's been so many cases like this in the UAE. Women and men have suffer terrible torture and injustice there. It is guilty of the most terrible human rights abuses imaginable. These include detention and torture of journalists and any political dissent, police beatings / rapes, union breaking, the prejudices of an Emirati elite against Indians, Bangladeshi and Pakistani workers is so appalling it's beyond belief. They ll are underpaid, enslaved and forced to live in horrible squalor.

I get very angry when I see adverts for The UAE as a modern, safe and attractive place. on C4 , between the news, where they pretend to care about equality and society. We should be boycotting the place!

[WelshMoth]

Another who is really struggling to see the appeal of this medieval country. To me, the shiny buildings, exclusive shops and mega-luxury hotels and sandy beaches masks a hypocritical regime that dips in and out of sharia law. Fucking frightening.

[IYonicAllAndIYonicNow]

She has been released.

A video "showed it was consensual" (!)

Glad she is free though.

[Tropezienne]

Me neither Welshmoth.

It's testament to disgraceful hypocrisy, notably of C4, who, if they did had a scrap of integrity would be promoting a boycott of the place and not encouraging us to go and "experience" it.

Experience it? Like this poor woman did? Or as Marte Dalelv did and so many other have?

[user1479991246]

For the sake of healthy discussion..... what does everyone think of the fact the video shows it was consensual? Or is it just going to be a... ''the police must be lieing''

Wonder what the Media will make of it, seeing as they have already publicly hung the two men involved?

[BoffeeToffin]

I think that's the statement that has been made. I wouldn't put any weight on its substance.

As consensual extra marital sex is illegal, if that's what it showed, why release her?

It's helpful for interaction to pick a real user name, user147

[BoffeeToffin]

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/17/briton-reported-rape-dubai-extramarital-sex-charge

Where have you seen themen being publically hung in the media? This, for example, is a factual report.

[WhisperingLoudly]

I think that's the statement that has been made. I wouldn't put any weight on its substance

As consensual extra marital sex is illegal, if that's what it showed, why release her?

The reality is the country is trying to progress and although extra marital sex is strictly speaking illegal a blind eye is turned. Thousands of men and woman live together/stay in hotels together without any issue.

[user1479991246]

The media includes more then just the Guardian. Whilst that is fair, the usual suspects have been pretty damning. Sun, mirror, Daily Mail etc etc...

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3944726/Pictured-TOWIE-star-James-Argent-two-Brits-accused-gang-raping-UK-worker-faces-jail-extra-marital-sex-lounge-pool-Dubai-days-alleged-attack.html

They skirt the lines very well, but play to the baying crowds. The ''perpetrators''; naming them, pictures of them, their occupations, value of houses(!) & area of the country they're in etc etc. That's enough for most of the population to form an opinion of them.

The comments about their gender obviously making them guilty & it being yet another reason why men should be hated prove my point, no? Even though on the face of it, with the evidence so far demonstrated, makes it look like the only law broken is her false accusations? (as per Police comments)


As for a real username, what difference does it make? We're all adults here, having a healthy discussion. :)

[Xenophile]

Ah, so they haven't been publicly hung then.

[scallopsrgreat]

It was a healthy discussion before you joined it user. Not sure why you think it wasn't.

Am I missing something here? What false accusations? What "fact the video shows it was consensual"? Have you seen the video or something? What public hanging of the accused?

If you have a problem with the commenters on a Daily Fail article, feel free to take it up with them and good luck with that. Not sure why you are expecting us to justify what people we don't know or probably don't even have the same political views as, are saying?

You don't seem to be bringing much to the party here.

[MontePulciana]

Did she make the whole thing up? I'm seeing really vague media reports. I'm genuinely baffled. Her photo is in the Sun ive seen. I used to live in Abu Dhabi, it was a terrifying place for a young female.