Novak Djokovic saying women tennis players should receive less prize money than men

[sportinguista]

Because they have less spectators apparently. Is it me or does this just devalue women's sport?

[MrNoseybonk]

Sports do not generate any material value, so one could ask why male players are paid so much to begin with.

Fair enough, you've said you have no interest in sport, but this is an easily answered question.
Because people are prepared to pay to see men kick a ball about.
And everyone, from burger vans to BBC execs want a bit of that.
Less people are prepared to pay less to see women's sports in general (although tennis surely must be close to being most equitable), which is the problem but also somehow nobody's fault.

[crappymummy]

I would prefer to see equity discussion of pay to focus on jobs where performance is less subjective, ie away from professional sports

I have a difficult time justifying anyone's pay in sport, or entertainment, or modelling, or acting. I find it hard to make the connection between what they do, and how they are rewarded. I think much of it does get determined by popularity.

In any case, if women in tennis suddenly got more money, more coverage, more endorsements, I wonder if that will make me feel better about the fact that I have been underpaid for what I do, my career stalled at points because of motherhood

[treaclesoda]

Well, that's similar to the circular argument that can keep women out of top jobs in other walks of life. Man has more experience than woman because somewhere in his career, someone has been willing to take a chance on him being able to do something, whereas women are judged on things they have already done (I believe this has been researched and found to often be the case). Therefore man has more experience than woman and is able to command more pay. Doesn't mean the woman is definitely incapable of bringing in more money, but unless she is given the chance, how would anyone ever know?

[slug]

Yes Mide, but if you were always given the less lucrative contacts to follow up and were only allowed to contact new customers between the hours of 6 and 9am or were only allowed to use second class mail, not the internet/phone, would you reasonably expect to bring in as much money as someone who has access to the best hours/tools/contacts? Would it be your fault you weren't as lucrative to your company?

The odds are already stacked against women players and this idea that they should be paid proportionally less because they are given less opportunities to bring in more income is yet another example of partiarchal victim blaming.

[crappymummy]

i would love for feminism to care about those of us who are not CEOs or in the running

I have a pretty unremarkable job, and I have been shafted over pay. This is not uncommon amongst women I know.

[Lweji]

Crappymummy, that is a separate subject.
You can start your own thread on it and we will all join.

[SpeakNoWords]

Discussions about pay and gender equality apply at all levels of pay and society. I'll never be a highly paid international sports star, but I still would want to see it be fair. I might have daughters or granddaughters after all...

[Lweji]

And BTW, feminism does care. I'm surprised you haven't noticed.

[crappymummy]

I would be interested to know how women's pay as suplemented by endorsements compares to the men

Anna kournikova earned a lot in this way, possibly disproportionately when compared to her actual tennis achievements

[msrisotto]

So you're angry at feminism. I would suggest you redirect your anger! It's not feminism who's paying you less ffs.

[Mide7]

I understand that Slug and you're right. Personally I think a better idea in this example would be to give women more of chance to get more exposure. Things that have been mentioned before like alternating who plays the last game of the tournament.

[crappymummy]

I have started a thread about equal pay here

if anyone wants to discuss

[crappymummy]

and actually, I am not angry at feminism or feminists, though as always, it's cute when someone paints justified criticism coming from a woman as her being irrationally angry

[LilyRoseX]

It's saddening to hear comments like his, he's in a position of power and I think should choose his words more carefully.

[Theydontknowweknowtheyknow]

"Anna kournikova earned a lot in this way, possibly disproportionately when compared to her actual tennis achievements"

Yes because she was beautiful.

The thing I can't get over is that Djokovic is paid shit loads as it is.

[Lweji]

He feels petty to me, actually.

This is also an example of how women are paid less (and some others more)
www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/its-international-womens-day-top-7516774

It also happens in male sports, but to a lesser degree.

[treaclesoda]

It's interesting how male sports stars are 'allowed' to endorse products and earn income purely on the grounds of their sporting ability. Yet a really incredible sports woman who doesn't tick the boxes on beauty would never be offered an advertising deal, whereas a very beautiful woman with mediocre sporting achievements can probably out earn more successful sports women based solely on her looks. On the face of it people will say 'oh, you see, women have an unfair advantage then' but I don't buy that argument. You can train harder and improve your sporting achievement (to a degree) but you can't change your genes.

[JAPABImTheOneWhoKnocks]

Mide7 I agree with what your saying crappymum but also agree women's sport should be valued more.

I would agree that more could be done to promote women's sport and so on, but I have a feeling that there is no rule of the universe saying that if all else was equal except what happens on the pitch (or other playing arena), women's sport would be just as popular as men's.

Anymore than there is a rule about bowling "having" to be as popular with the general public as football and it is only the lack of TV coverage and promotion of bowling that is preventing what "ought" to be happening from happening.

In some sports, such as snooker say, there are objective stats to say such things as the ratio of centuries to non-centuries tends to be higher when men play, and so on. And if part of what snooker fans like to see are big breaks then there is no law saying they should have to forgo this in order to be "equalists".

[MyNameIsInigoMontoya]

Yes treaclesoda, reminds me of something I saw recently about a female surfer - I think she was top in the world or something, but the article was saying she was not getting sponsorship due to being judged not "attractive" enough, despite her talent. (Will look for the link later if I remember, unless anyone else has it handy?).

[MyNameIsInigoMontoya]

Oops just saw that is what Lweji linked to so please ignore me!

[scallopsrgreat]

Love your nickname MyNameIsInigoMontoya

[MyNameIsInigoMontoya]

Why thank you scallops

[AskBasil]

Basically some men will look for any reason they can point to, to prove why they're superior to women and deserve more of the Earth's resources.

He and men like him show us why we still need feminism.

[Lweji]

Here's another take on the subject.

By Djokovic's reasoning, maybe they should also pay male players according to the crowds they attract instead of a fixed prize.

[bojorojo]

I don't really care about whether I am watching a man or a woman play sport. What I do want to see is the best sport. Nina Carberry rides racehorses as well as the men. Zara Philips and other women ride 3 day event as well as the men. The women's football team for England are not as skilful as the men. Therefore it is not the best football to watch. The defensive mistakes that lead to goals are horrendous and so is the goalkeeping. The women's rugby team are bit like watching a school XV. Not their fault but even if it was on at the same time of day, and instead of the men's 6 Nations, I would not watch.

We occasionally buy debenture seats at Wimbledon. Women's days are considerably cheaper. These tickets are sold on a pure market value basis. I enjoy women's tennis but people do prefer to watch the men. I doubt the viewing figures for the women would be greater than the men even if they did play on Sunday. Lots of women watch tennis. They prefer to watch the sheer power and athleticism of the men. Having said that, SW is perfection.

We cannot pretend all women's sport is top class. Clearly some of it is average and I am not interested in watching it. Neither are lots of people. However, it is great to celebrate top class sporting achievement by women but saying all women's sport is brilliant is deluded and will not persuade the average sports fan to part with cash or switch on the tv. That does not mean women should not participate if they want to.