Novak Djokovic saying women tennis players should receive less prize money than men

[sportinguista]

Because they have less spectators apparently. Is it me or does this just devalue women's sport?

[Childrenofthestones]

Lweji
The male player Karsten Braasch, ranked 203, beat the Williams sisters back to back in two matches in one afternoon.
He said he started the day off with a round of golf and a couple of shandies with his lunch before going on court.
One of the sisters requested the match but afaik have never repeated the experiment after getting her fingers burned.
I think it's called choosing your battles.

[sportinguista]

Lweji, yes to your post above about martial arts etc. I used to do martial arts and in one group I was the only woman as its not one that's popular with women. It relied though heavily on movement and agility. I also have really flexible joints so could get out of holds etc with ease. The men there treated me as an equal and we all enjoyed learning and practising together. Eventually other women joined and there was no different treatment given to them.

It's a case of women don't always get a chance to compete with men. Yes we don't have the same strength but I'd strongly refute that we don't have the capability for the same skills it would be like saying women are less intelligent than men or something as medieval as that.

[Lweji]

Ups, 10-8!

[MrNoseybonk]

The darts player Anastasia Dobromyslova joined the men's tour.
I think she won one game, against a top male player, and mostly held her own. Plenty of male players compete without winning much.
But like you say, she's one person.

[Lweji]

Ups, 10-8!

[Mide7]

You're probably right lweji, I know very little about snooker but remember it being talked about.

It doesn't mean much but it's a start and a step in the right direction

[Lweji]

The former ladies champion lost 20-8 to Ken Doherty in qualifying. There will (was?) another attempt by the current champion in Sheffield.

Personally, I don't think one game and one player means much. A true picture can only emerge from more games and more people. And to continue as more women participate in the sport at professional level.

[derxa]

Andy Murray has reiterated his views in favour of equal pay. He is a great feminist ally in terms of sport. Follows women's tennis as well as men's and is on record as stating that his favourite player is Agnieszka Radwańska because of her style of play. He took a lot of stick when he appointed a female coach but despite swapping Lendl for Mauresmo has remained at No 2 in the world.
Love Andy. Novak not so much...
Not tennis but the top female snooker player recently entered qualifying for some top men's tournament didn't she? She didn't win but I hope she gets the chance again.
I hope so too.

[derxa]

Andy Murray has reiterated his views in favour of equal pay. He is a great feminist ally in terms of sport. Follows women's tennis as well as men's and is on record as stating that his favourite player is Agnieszka Radwańska because of her style of play. He took a lot of stick when he appointed a female coach but despite swapping Lendl for Mauresmo has remained at No 2 in the world.
Love Andy. Novak not so much...
Not tennis but the top female snooker player recently entered qualifying for some top men's tournament didn't she? She didn't win but I hope she gets the chance again.
I hope so too.

[Mide7]

Not tennis but the top female snooker player recently entered qualifying for some top men's tournament didn't she? She didn't win but I hope she gets the chance again.

[Lweji]

Have any top women played against any top men, recently?
Even in training?

[grimbletart]

Andy Murray has reiterated his views in favour of equal pay. He is a great feminist ally in terms of sport. Follows women's tennis as well as men's and is on record as stating that his favourite player is Agnieszka Radwańska because of her style of play. He took a lot of stick when he appointed a female coach but despite swapping Lendl for Mauresmo has remained at No 2 in the world.

He also said some time ago that he didn't see why female players could not play 5 sets at the slams as it offers more chance for comeback and he sees no problems in terms of stamina.

Conversely, Billy-Jean King thinks men shouldn't play 5 sets at the slams - both sexes should play 3 - as 5 puts a major strain on the body and injuries can shorten careers. (Not true obviously in the case of Federer ).

[itllallbefine]

Don't know a lot about tennis, but I'm sure I remember reading that the better William's sister would beat all but maybe the top 4 in the men's game

Actually I think they would not win against a top 300 player, see previous link. SW herself said that she "probably would not win a point" against Andy Murray.

[Lweji]

derxa

Notice that I said some sports and then gave an example of chess.
Obviously, Bolt is better than anyone else but that's just one extreme example that does not make your case. That is pure speed.

I have some experience of combat and I used to practice with men. I couldn't possibly win against a big direct blow by a much stronger man. BUT I was faster and could maneuver more easily. Many men underestimated me and the other women there. In one occasion a group (who was not used to us) avoided pairing up with the women. Because we weren't the delicate flowers they expected.
In many sports that don't rely mostly on speed or strength, women are likely to achieve just as much as men, if they train as much during their lifetime and are given competition at the same level throughout.
The girl at my son's football team simply won't have the same opportunities as the boys if she decides to pursue football. Football relies more on skill than strength or speed, although those help. Many good players are not particularly strong or fast.

[MrNoseybonk]

How do you know men are better? When do they get a chance to prove themselves?

Don't know a lot about tennis, but I'm sure I remember reading that the better William's sister would beat all but maybe the top 4 in the men's game.
I assumed that men serve and hit faster than women, but then read this, which is intereting: www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2014/09/sabine_lisicki_record_serve_science_explains_why_female_tennis_players_can.html

[EBearhug]

No-one complains that JK Rowling makes more money than Ian Mckellen. She generates more money, simple as that.

That's probably partly because one is an author and the other an actor, which is not quite the same comparison as a male tennis player and a female tennis player. I don't know what their comparative incomes are.

Ino any case, it's not that simple. She originally published as JK instead of Joanna because they were worried having a clearly female name on the cover would mean boys wouldn't read it. There are things done for reasons relating to sexism and inequality wherever you are, not just in sport.

[itllallbefine]

I kind of agree with you aussiemum - this is the thinking that allowed Michelle Wie to compete in some male PGA tour events. The general reaction to that was that it wasn't fair then that men didn't get to compete in the women's events....

I don't think there's any doubt that women could not compete on the mens tennis tour, www.theguardian.com/observer/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html

[Aussiemum78]

How do you know men are better? When do they get a chance to prove themselves?

Actually remember this?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)

[derxa]

I was bought up on Navratilova and Graff and enjoyed watching them far more than boring old Sampras although I am sure he'd have beaten them in a match.
I agree. The trouble with women's tennis today is that I find it hard to care about any of them apart from Serena.

[Aussiemum78]

I don't know much about tennis but why don't they make the matches the same length/rules?

I think also that women should be able to qualify for the men's Comp on merit. Why should they compete against women at a lower prize if they can prove themselves to be as good?

I'd also bet that the tickets to a woman's match cost the same as men's? So it's only of lesser value when it suits the sports administrators?

[derxa]

Saying that the best men are better than the best women in some sports is somewhat like saying that fewer women get to CEOs because men are better.
No it isn't. Fewer women get to be CEOs because of discrimination and other factors. No woman could outrun Usain Bolt at his peak.

[Lweji]

Saying that the best men are better than the best women in some sports is somewhat like saying that fewer women get to CEOs because men are better. And there is a huge pay gap at this level, as in film, for example. You can't say that the best actor is always better than the best actress.
There are constraining factors in many cases. We've had a recent thread about chess and how women were discouraged from pursuing it as a sport and the ones who did practice tended to play in less competitive women's tournaments, in a vicious circle.

The comment about how women follow male idols and men don't care about female sport is accurate. But we should look at why. We keep celebrating men for manliness and competition achievements, while women are seen as unusually manly and often ugly if they get to the level of physical strength to be top of the game. Women are still meant to be pretty and fragile and the stereotype is being reinforced from childhood with the bloody pink princesses.
I'd like to see the male players comment on the skill level of the female games and support them as equals, not squabble over cash prizes.

[derxa]

I guess it's symptomatic of the wider equality in society as a whole. Often we are still not seen as equal. The best man is better than the best woman in most sports. That's due to biology.

[itllallbefine]

I feel a bit sad that Djokovic doesn't have the balls to stand behind his opinion if that is what he thinks, or argue his case. The Indian Wells guy is already lined up as a fall guy, forced out for having the "wrong" opinion.

My personal opinion on this is that what's really going on here is that a lot of men don't like the idea that a woman should be paid the same for playing a sport that a man could beat her at. I read a bit of that into Djokovics comments, he feels he should get the most, because he could beat any other tennis player in the world, in some people's view, that is what is "fair". Other than SW, there isn't any question that men's tennis attracts far higher viewing figures.

In an attempt to tie two threads together - what do people think of the way that male sporting idols are worshipped by women, in a way that women sporting stars are not by men ? e.g. men's football matches are full of women, the reverse isn't true, there are female tennis fans who follow their idols round the world, i dunno, i just get the impression that it's not the same for men, in that for whatever reason men just do not seem to get fanatical about womens sports in the way they do about mens.