Are you forced to feel that being a SAHM is idelogical??

[charlotteabigailharris]

Hi I'm new to mumsnet,

I'm currently doing my Economics degree dissertation and wondered what are you're thoughts on deciding to go back to work as a new mum??
do you feel pressured to return to work or be a SAHM??

do you feel there are strong gender norms in the uk that make mothers want to become SAHM's??

do you feel governments should do more about said influences??

have you experienced this type of pressure?? where from - other mums, media, men etc.??

and have you acted upon it?? i.e. returned to work because you feel society and family/friends feel you should?? does this make you feel guilty??

do you believe that being a housewife is the best?? or not why??

do you believe that children suffer from their mothers working?? why??

This subject interests me as I'm currently a SAHM to a 3 and half year old boy and currently 5 months pregnant, im in the last year of my degree and am feeling pressures from different directions either way, I am expecting to start work as of January 2016
and i would like to know about your experiences/situations....

Yours ideas and thoughts would gratefully be appreciated and if anyone has very strong ideas and would like to be part of the research please send me an email and I will get back to asap.

I'll look forward to hearing from you :)

[CloserToFiftyThanTwenty]

Puffin - I was talking more generally about MN, not this thread. I meant that in the wider world I have never come across people as forthright in their opinions about SAHM / WOHM etc as on here

[charlotteabigailharris]

It is really inetersting to read all your experiences, it looks like most of you don't feel there is very strong social norms either way (work or to be a SAHM).... I think after reading there is a general consensus of wanting to work part-time preferably and liking to have very few quality care-givers in the childrens' early years and that being a SHAM may only be for the more wealthy....

[StellaAlpina]

Interesting topic Charlotte :)
I did something very similar for my MA dissertation, for what it's worth I was expecting that women's would choose to SAHM/WOHM more on ideological/social norms grounds and then my results showed most of my participants ended up being SAHMs/WOHMs more on economic grounds.

Good luck with it all, I have no DC yet so no personal experience.

[AskBasil]

If you're a single parent, the pressure is only one way - get back to work you lazy skiving scrounger.

I never really felt I had a choice, I had to go back to work because I didn't have a partner and the alternative was abject poverty.

[SirChenjin]

The alternative for plenty of people in partnerships is abject poverty in many cases too...

[Athrawes]

I think that being a SAHM is a luxury that few can afford. Those who cannot afford it have to choose between going without (and then telling the world about the sacrifices they have made to be a "better mother" and "why have children if you aren't going to look after them") or getting the rest of us to pay via tax credits and benefits.

[PuffinsAreFictitious]

Closer... I was talking more generally about MN, not this thread. I meant that in the wider world I have never come across people as forthright in their opinions about SAHM / WOHM etc as on here

Really? How odd. I'm not suggesting that you're lying btw, I'm merely expressing surprise.

[TeaAddict235]

Hello OP,
I am currently a SAHM, and have been so full time for over one year. Prior to that I worked full time since university, and after having DS I have done additional work to finish my PhD. I will return to work when I am ready. I consider that I have worked extremely hard in a very niche male driven industry to get to where I am for 8 years, and on top of that completed a phD in order to have the flexibility and command a certain level of re-entry when I do return. Female colleagues of mine were also SAHM and re-entered on the basis that they were specialists or very senior in my industry. Most male colleagues of mine have or have had wives who are/were SAHM and do not really say much about it, but there were always comments about people not being at work on time or leaving at 4pm on the dot.

I think that society does try to make mothers who have worked prior to having children return back to work asap, which I think is unfair. When people try to suggest that I should go back to work, I do remind them that I am already a professional in my field and have always been serious about my career, hence there is no rush. I am still in contact with former colleagues, am an associate member of my industry etc etc etc.


I am happy to be in this role at the moment as I know that it is only a phase of my life, and I largely do not pay attention to the media, as I know that many of those writing those articles would not ever have put themselves through what I and many other women in science & engineering put ourselves through. My DH and I both believe that my full time teaching of our children at the moment is the best for them. My mother worked full time when I was younger and it was not a disadvantage to my learning, in due season my DC will also see me "in action" in the work place.

[morethanpotatoprints]

Hello OP

I don't necessarily agree with your last comment about a sahm being for the wealthy, of course it could be.
However, there are many women who would like to work, who don't have extended family for childcare and can't afford to pay privately.
It isn't always a choice for the wealthy, sometimes there is no choice.

[AskBasil]

"The alternative for plenty of people in partnerships is abject poverty in many cases too..."

Nowhere near the same level of social opprobrium though. And nowhere near the same options re ability to find work which fits in with childcare.

[SirChenjin]

I have no idea what the actual figures are - but it's not a competition.

[SirChenjin]

Hit return too soon there. Childcare and finding suitable work is just as difficult for working couples - employers don't offer flexible working simply because you are in a relationship. Our after school club also gives priority to single parents, irrespective of the support networks they have in place.

[cruikshank]

No, there's no guarantee of flexible working, but there's two lots of leave, two jobs where you can ask to go early/start late a couple of days a week or even just every now and again - it all helps (especially for FUCKING inset days - yes, yes, I know the history behind them being there, but if there's only one of you who can take the day off when all the childminders are full and none of the holiday clubs are open, you end up using 1/4 of your precious leave so that people who only work 2/3rd of the year anyway have yet more time off).

I agree with this though:

there are many women for whom being a sahp is a necessary display of a certain income bracket, along with certain type of car, kids at certain schools, specific labels, etc, iykwim?

I don't have close friends in such circles but it's definitely a badge of honour amongst a certain class of people to be able to raise a family on one income.

[SirChenjin]

I agree with the two lots of leave, but the point is (and it's been said many times on MN) - there is no standard single parent family and there is no standard dual parent family. Most parents and families face difficulties to some extent when trying to work and raise a family - no point in trying to out-do each other in who has it worse, it's much more productive to support each other and acknowledge how bloody difficult it is to put food on the table and a roof over our heads.

[cruikshank]

That's true. There's no standard employer either. I mean, I work and don't have a partner, but I do have more wiggle room than some in that flexible working is the norm where I am - not just for parents, but for everyone. So I am very very lucky in that respect - they don't care when you do it so much, as long as the job gets done in the overall time that it should. I previously worked in a culture of presenteeism so I know there are jobs out there that are just frankly incompatible with family life - hell, with any life at all really.

I still hate fucking inset days though.

[SirChenjin]

I am absolutely with you on Inservice days though, hate the things - oh, and DC3s primary is closed (yet again) because it's a polling station. Other primary schools aren't - so we will have to find another days annual leave from somewhere

[cruikshank]

It's a major fucking pain, isn't it? Annual leave is rubbish when you're a parent - before, it was all Ibiza and city breaks and just slobbing around at home in my pyjamas. Now (even with the wonders of flexible working), it's invariably mopping up sick, sitting in A&E or pissing inset mallarky.

Anyway, to drag this back on topic, I don't think many parents are motivated by ideology when it comes to working/not working - I think a lot of it is down to economics and what works out best financially for the family unit as a whole. The difference I think is whether you're thinking long term or short term - some will take the childcare hit even though they're worse off in the short term. Although as I said I do know (as acquaintances) people who view their status as a sahm as part of the 'package' that comes with marrying/partnering (although it's usually marrying ime) a high earner and that they have achieved something by being in that position.

[PuffinsAreFictitious]

Just to reiterate Morethan's point, I have a couple that I manage who are having a second child. One or other of them will now have to give up work, because they simply can't afford childcare for 2 children. It makes more financial sense for them to have one at home, or both go part time and hope they can claim some kind of top-up benefits. They are on just above NMW, really not solely a wealthy person's decision.

[AskBasil]

"It's not a competition"

You're the one who made it one SirC. I'm perfectly well aware that lots of couples also face abject poverty if they don't work, but pretending that the likelihood of poverty and social stigma is the same for children of lone parents and for children of couples, is pointless.

Is it true that there is a class of women who believe that being a SAHM goes along with car, house and husband with suitable job? Really? Would like to know more actually, what socio-economic class are we talking about? What level of education, what sort of career did these women previously have?

It's become far more dangerous to be a SAHM recently because of that ruling by Judge Pitchford saying that resident parents with children over 7 should get a job. Marriage used to give women some rudimentary rights to maintenance for herself as well as for her children, but as those rights are being eroded, to give up a career with no guarantee that you'll get back into the workplace at the same level you were at before you left it and a cut in maintenance once your youngest child is seven, seems to me an enormous gamble. I think even if you are fairly well off as a couple and could afford to be a SAHM, knowing that if your relationship failed (as about half do) you can look forward to poverty if you haven't kept a job, must be a much bigger psychological pressure on women to go back to work than anything else? Or do most women just hope for the best?

[SirChenjin]

I didn't make it a competition I pointed out that single parents arent the only ones who face abject poverty if they dont work.

[bibliomania]

I agree that it's primarily an economic decision rather than an ideological one. I'm sure people dress up their situation in ideological terms because it makes the decision easier to live with if you're doing The Right Thing as well as what you just have to do.

Without having stats, I would expect that a relatively small minority are in a position where they are genuinely able to choose freely, particularly where there several dcs.

I've also never had a conversation about this in real life. Nobody seems at all interested in whether I'm a WOHM or SAHM.

[almondcakes]

OP, I think you should look up the stats on SAHMs. Some age groups and ethnic groups are far more likely to be SAHMs than others.

Many women literally cannot afford to work. Their pay would be less than the cost of childcare and travel to work.

[AskBasil]

Why do you think you felt the need to point that out SirChenjin?

It's the norm for single parents to face abject poverty and social stigma if they don't work in the cash economy.

Some couples face abject poverty if one of them doesn't work in the cash economy, but it's not the norm. Plenty of couples have very comfortable lives when one of them doesn't have a paid job. Very few lone parents have very comfortable lives if they don't have a paid job.

That implies a systematic difference in terms of choices about whether to be a SAHM or not. I don't know why you feel it's competitive to point that out.

[SirChenjin]

Why do you feel the need to ask other posters why they think they felt the need to do anything?

Why do you feel the need to generalise so widely about single parent families and dual parent families?

[iliketeaalot]

When I returned to work, ds was 7 months old. Ideally, I would have liked to go back pt but I was only ever going back to work for two months as we were then moving abroad and the two months served as my notice period, so did ft. Since moving abroad, I have become sahm and have loved it. I have however debated finding a job here several times since moving out here - I have always worked, and the idea of not working seems really alien to me. Ds goes to a childminder's twice a week and I have the option of upping his hours if I find anything, but since all the childcare really falls to me and dh's work can take him here, there and everywhere, I need to know I'm available all the time. I know I'll go back to work when he's at school and definitely if we move back to UK, so I'm just enjoying spending all my time (pretty much) with my beautiful baby boy.