Are you forced to feel that being a SAHM is idelogical??

[charlotteabigailharris]

Hi I'm new to mumsnet,

I'm currently doing my Economics degree dissertation and wondered what are you're thoughts on deciding to go back to work as a new mum??
do you feel pressured to return to work or be a SAHM??

do you feel there are strong gender norms in the uk that make mothers want to become SAHM's??

do you feel governments should do more about said influences??

have you experienced this type of pressure?? where from - other mums, media, men etc.??

and have you acted upon it?? i.e. returned to work because you feel society and family/friends feel you should?? does this make you feel guilty??

do you believe that being a housewife is the best?? or not why??

do you believe that children suffer from their mothers working?? why??

This subject interests me as I'm currently a SAHM to a 3 and half year old boy and currently 5 months pregnant, im in the last year of my degree and am feeling pressures from different directions either way, I am expecting to start work as of January 2016
and i would like to know about your experiences/situations....

Yours ideas and thoughts would gratefully be appreciated and if anyone has very strong ideas and would like to be part of the research please send me an email and I will get back to asap.

I'll look forward to hearing from you :)

[bonniebear]

I don't understand why anyone would feel guilty for working.

[duplodon]

I feel I've been in semi-permanent crisis on this since I had ds1. I have worked all sorts of different patterns, and had periods not at work etc. Currently I work one long day and with three under six can't really afford to work more. Dh hates his work, I love mine, but there are no full time jobs in mine and work in insecure... But I feel endlessly conflicted even though it's not really a choice to be home.

[StillLostAtTheStation]

I never considered not returning to work. I worked full time and we employed a nanny.

I would not have been comfortable not earning my own money. I know the line is "you're a team , it's not his money,it's the family's" but that would not have felt right for me.

So far as being expected to return I think there is in my profession an assumption women will return to work quite quickly , not necessarily all full time.

[Strictlyison]

I am not sure if I would feel guilty about working full time, but my previous job meant lots of travelling - in the UK and abroad - sometimes from Monday to Friday, for months in a row. If I would have gone back to my previous job I would have missed out too much and the kids would miss their mum. I know some people do it and I don't want to assume they feel guilty, but I would have felt that I'd miss out on my children's early years. I wanted to work from home, be my own boss, which is why I completely changed my career. I don't think I did this because of external pressure, it was my own choice, fully supported by DH. Financially, my pension is sorted, I have savings and investments, and feel secure even though I earn a fifth of what I earned before (not counting investments/revenues other than income as a child minder).

[slightlyeggstained]

We both went part-time, which doesn't seem that common but has worked extremely well for us. I would never have considered staying at home as work is a core part of my identity. DP and I occasionally discuss him staying at home, but so far he has always decided against. I suspect he will probably want to retire earlier, and as older parents, it might make more sense during teen years if we can afford it. At the moment anyway, we've kept all our options open.

Had it not been possible for us to go part-time, I would have had no problem with returning full time. Part time just seemed like a no brainer - more time, no career impact (for me, I realise it doesn't work like that for many people).

[vdbfamily]

What we wanted for our family was to minimise stress levels.We had 3 kids within 3.5 years so the first few years were pretty chaotic.The thought of having to wake my babies up at whatever hour to get them to nursery so I could work. I could not imagine the only time of day I saw my kids being just an hour or so before bedtime when they are tired and grumpy and I am tired and grumpy. The 2 years I worked full-time whilst my husband was unemployed,I enjoyed the work and I enjoyed coming home to dinner on the table etc but I found the levels of emotional energy I had left for my children was virtually nil. This maybe because my job can be emotionally demanding too but I hated the feeling of getting home and just wanting everyone to leave me alone....when of course they were all clamouring for my attention. This was a couple of years ago when the kids were 6,8 and 9. I was glad that I had not experienced that when they were younger and more demanding and dependent. Mine had their free hours at pre-school from age 3 but if they said they really did not want to go, I would not force them as I was at home anyway. Mostly they all enjoyed it just for a few mornings a week. I think there is evidence that younger than 3 kids can get quite stressed in nursery environments and would agree with others who have said that a consistant primary care giver is important for little ones. The debate about whether being a SAHM is a luxury or not is an interesting one. We lived my husbands income of just over £20,000 for a while and then I started my one day a week which gave us a little more. I shopped in charity shops and got given bags of clothes from friends. We stayed with friends and family for holidays or camped. We didn't go out much, didn't have mobile phone contracts or a TV licence. We lived with one car which meant I was pretty much stranded in our village whilst the kids were young as husband used car to get to work. It was quite hard but I think emotionally I would have found it harder having the income but having to manage the logistics of 2 working parents,particularly when one of the kids is poorly etc.Now I am glad to have been able to give them that time and see them grow up.

[HarveySpectre]

choice is a 'luxury' (I think privilege is more appropriate, not being a SAHM

alot of people don't have a choice. Circumstance dictate that some mums have to work. Different circumstances dictate others will have to stay home

But to imply that people could choose to stay at home if they only took camping holidays, didnt run a car/phone/tv is wrong. People are working and living hand to mouth

[slightlyeggstained]

Interesting point Harvey. I wonder how it would change the debate if we all consciously used privilege instead of choice?

For some great aunts, the choice of children or work was very stark due to the marriage bar - keep your teaching job, that gives you your own income, social status, control over your life - or get married and be forced into complete dependency on your husband. They chose work, and retaining their independence over having children - that's why I don't have cousins on that side of the family.

Going back a little further, the strictly divided work/home setup that forces a choice hasn't been around forever - it would have been the norm for all women except the rich and privileged to work as well as caring for their children.

I think it's interesting to see how quickly an ideological push to get women out of the workforce after the two world wars has become an "it's always been this way".

"do you believe that being a housewife is the best?? or not why??"

While an SAHM can also be a housewife, I think of these as two separate things. Why do you think that they are the same, OP?

[Strictlyison]

The only thing that would make a real difference to the economy would be to have cheap, good and flexible childcare, heavily subsidised. And all schools offering affordable morning and after school clubs. For thousands of families, it's the option of going back to work that's a 'luxury' as the cost of childcare is so high, not the stay at home option.

When I go back home (Québec) everybody goes back to work, because childcare is very affordable. It has its downsides of course and the system is not perfect (higher ratio is one of them) but most women and men will go back to their previous jobs after starting a family. I can't see that happening here, first because of the size of the population, second because it's resulting in a higher rate of tax.

[Kampeki]

For me, I think it is an ideological choice - as well as a practical one - to work. My mum was very unhappy and unfulfilled as a sahm, and didn't like being financially dependent on my father. I was brought up to believe that it was preferable for a woman to maintain her own career, and that's what DSis and I have both done.

I couldn't give a toss about what the politicians at Westminster might want me to do, or anyone else for that matter. I have never felt any pressure either way, and I wouldn't want others to feel pressure either.

[Jackieharris]

Why?? Are?? You?? Typing?? Double?? Question?? Marks??

It's very distracting!

In answer to your question if you compare European welfare states and attitudes to working mothers you will find that the UK has a culture of part time working for women with young children.

In general being a sahm is preferred as long as there's a man to financially support her . (Single mums on the other hand can't win- they are either a burden in the taxpayer or cruel child abandoners)

People tend to expect mums of school aged DCs to take up some form of employment, even though this is very difficult. Once they are teenagers you would be expected to have a ft job again.

Personally I hate being stuck at home and would like ft affordable childcare to be available to all mums who want it so we could return to work.

So many women are sahms because their salary won't cover childcare costs.

[hobNong]

I have felt pressure to not return to work from mil. I also have been asked by a few acquaintances and friends whether I will be returning or if I'll be going part time etc. Not one person has asked dp anything similar.

I earn a good salary but dp's is a lot higher than mine. I feel guilty that I have the luxury of choice when so many families don't, but then I don't feel like I really do have a free choice as I have expectations from other people to at least reduce my hours.

My ideal situation would be that both me and dp work part time on alternate days. He is not prepared to ask for this. So there you go, my career will take the hit.

Do I think children suffer by having working mums? Well not working mums especially. I do think it is nice for children to have one parent there to pick them up from school etc, it doesn't have to be the mother. I don't think it's the end of the world if they don't have this, I didn't and didn't feel like I missed out.

[SirChenjin]

I disagree that being a SAHM is generally preferred - there are far too many downsides to it imo, e.g. little/no finanical independence (unless you've made arrangements), no pension provision (ditto), no career advancement (voluntary work doesn't really cut it), and so on. It may be preferable to the individual, but I certainly don't think it's a generalised view.

I agree that choice is a luxury, and YY to the cost of childcare being prohibitive for many women. That's an issue that really needs to be looked at by future Govts.

[duplodon]

Sahm definitely not preferred where I am... It's seen as very low status and that you can't be bothered or aren't good enough to get a proper job. Most of us, to be fair, can't afford childcare or there are few employment prospects.

[bananaramadramallama]

I went back to work after app 6 months maternity leave with both of my children (ft work with travelling involved, also shift work & have been away for extended periods a few times over their lives); husband is same profession so also ft and has been away for extended periods.

I was more than happy to go back to work and had no problem with both children in ft nursery (no family around to help out either, just me and their dad).
There was no pressure for me to return to work, in fact there was more faces as to why I hadn't given up work to be at home ft.

Ironically, it is now that they are at the late primary/early secondary school age that I feel they need me more. They are hugely independent and self sufficient, very grown up and get left alone etc, but they often just want to talk to me now - about stuff that happens at school, how to deal with people/situations etc etc.

I have come to an end in my job now, and am leaving after 20 years - I am going to be a housewife for the next few years hopefully (my choice, with husband's full backing - he will still be the one that does the cooking, shopping and garden though!).

For me, the early years were not a problem guilt wise - it is now I feel they need me that bit more.

I have been fortunate to be able to make choices though, many women have no 'choice'; I am also not someone who is easily swayed or affected by others opinions.

[morethanpotatoprints]

I think it depends on your area if sahm is the preferred option tbh.
It is round here because women tend not to be career driven, so when they have dc they don't earn enough to afford childcare and would also rather be with their kids or at home than work for little if any financial gain.

I would imagine in more affluent areas the mums are career driven and for areas like this there will be few sahm's.

[SirChenjin]

It's interesting - while there are certainly career driven women round here (I guess you could call it affluent, but sadly not in the Chen household ) there are many women for whom being a sahp is a necessary display of a certain income bracket, along with certain type of car, kids at certain schools, specific labels, etc, iykwim?

[CloserToFiftyThanTwenty]

I've never come across as much judgement as on MN - though that's because people tend to say what they really think on an Internet forum more than in real life...

[qumquat]

I would love it to be possible both parents to go back to work part time and not sacrifice thier careers in the process. Sadly working practices don't generally allow for this and the financial future of the family tends to rely on one person progressing in their career and earnings, while the only flounders in the 'mummy track' of part time working. I was thrilled to go back to work (I went for 4 days a week) after maternity leave and I certainly don't feel guilty for working, but I wish dp and I could afford to both be part time, both In terms of our monthly income and our future ambitions.

[morethanpotatoprints]

chen

How interesting, I think I know the type you mean, but am surprised they still exist. I thought they were a dying breed and that most women married to high achieving and/or born into money were the career type now.
Ther must be so many differnt reasons people choose to sah or woh.

[PuffinsAreFictitious]

I've never come across as much judgement as on MN - though that's because people tend to say what they really think on an Internet forum more than in real life...

Judgement about what, Closer? The thread has been pretty balanced really.

[slightlyeggstained]

qumquat - your ideal is what DP and I have done, both go back part-time. Not available to everyone, no, but I suspect fewer men even ask. His employers were bewildered at this newfangled idea, and his boss was convinced they'd say no. But actually, once they got their heads round it, it's been fine.

It seems such a sensible option - I'm hoping it will gradually become more popular.

[wol1968]

I think we could do with job/cv/interview confidence-building workshops for women needing to re-enter the workforce after a gap, some high-quality, realistic careers and re-training advice staffed by people who have a proper knowledge of the local job market (and not some money-making scheme for enrolling onto Mickey Mouse further education courses that lead nowhere) and some serious education of employers as to how they can make their terms and conditions more family-friendly without risking their business viability.

[zirca]

do you feel pressured to return to work or be a SAHM??

• I had to go back with my first child as we weren't in the right position financially to lose a whole salary. It was also expected from grandparents, friends etc.
  

do you feel there are strong gender norms in the uk that make mothers want to become SAHM's??

• My mother was a SAHM. I found it incredibly difficult not doing that for my son, and it stressed me out to the point where we made lifestyle changes that meant I could stay at home after DC2.
  

do you feel governments should do more about said influences??

• I don't think the government has anything to do with it!
  

have you experienced this type of pressure?? where from - other mums, media, men etc.??

• No
  

and have you acted upon it?? i.e. returned to work because you feel society and family/friends feel you should?? does this make you feel guilty??

• We made the choices we felt were right for our family.
  

do you believe that being a housewife is the best?? or not why??

• I think it's the best thing for my DC1 who needs that comfort and stability. We tried me working and childcare and it didn't work for him.
  

do you believe that children suffer from their mothers working?? why??

• Working made my first child more insecure than he naturally is. He wouldn't sleep at night, was over clingy and just not right during the working week. I tried it for a full year so we knew for sure it wasn't right for him. He's now very happy, cheerful and confident. He is very shy and gentle as a person though - it might work fine for a more confident, outgoing child.

[TheWordFactory]

When I had my DC I didn't feel pressured one way or the other TBH. I certainly didn't give a hoot that the Daily Fail would like me to be a SAHM .

I ended up being a SAHM for a short period due to practicalities and it was not for me.

Interestingly when the DC started school I met lots of SAHMs ( very wealthy areas, private school) and some of them were very sniffy about working Mums ( I think they didn't realise I was one because I worked very flexibly around my DC and often from home).

If the child of a working mum had any problem it was put down to the working ( and the same problem in children if SAHMs were either excused or given much more complex causes).