Margaret Thatcher - Feminist Icon?

[OnlyANinja]

The Guardian asks a number of influential women (apparently) but I'd rather ask MNers.

[EdlessAllenPoe]

she evidently had some feminist beliefs. she would never believe she couldn't do science, or law, because she was a woman. Chemistry was a challenging field for a woman to enter when my sister did in the early 2000s....never mind when she did.

she never believed she was unfit to rule, because she was a woman. She never backed down from being a woman, used it in her rhetoric, played it as a strength - she embraced the 'iron lady' moniquer. no-one called her Reagans 'poodle'!

she showed no interest in womens issues - true - there may well have been political reasons for that (and indeed, doing things like increase child benefit was hardly in line with her general economic thrust) nor did she actively seek to promote women (but this just means she didn't favour positive discrimination)

there is a strong association in the minds of some between socialism and feminism but i don't buy that: a feminist is someone who thinks men and women should enjoy equal chances in life. how you do that ...well there are many ways, and scattered across the political spectrum.

she championed individualism, certainly... there is something feminist about that.
it is when people make generalisations and ignore the individual in front of them, that chauvinism triumphs.

actually Meryl Streeps quote on woman's hour was insightful...'people didn't hate her policies, they hated her. Many of the architects of those policies are still in political life. They are men however, so the hatred she receives...it raises my hackles as a feminist' (or words to that effect)

[nurter]

Undoubtedly, Thatcher is the only female and the greatest Prime Minister since WW2. She took an economy that was a basket case that had needed IMF assistance and turned it into one of the strongest in Europe, she stopped the union barons holding country to ransom as well as successfully defending our sovereign territory when it was invaded by Argentina. Her influence exists to this day as Mandelson said "We are all Thatcherites now"

[perceptionreality]

At what expense though nurter?

I have noticed that people who support Thatcher seem to have silly, misplaced, snobbish ideals about the so called British Empire (zzzzzzzzzz). Like we need to prove how superior we are. It's pathetic.

I agree it's not on to bring her illness into it. Illness should never be joked about whoever it is. The woman was a monster though, I don't see how anyone could think any different.

People who have zero empathy surely have psychopathic tendencies. I don't think so called strength and determination is enough to deservedly win you a place in history as an icon, when ethically sound decision making is a concept that escapes you entirely.

[nurter]

Its nothing to do with the empire, look at the 1970s Britain was an absolute mess with a backwards and uncompetitive economy and she turned it around.

[perceptionreality]

Tell that to the people whose lives she couldn't have given a monkey's arse about........

[Nanc123]

her actions killed people, people died and lives were ruined, industries destroyed and areas on the country totally decimated and still to this day haven't recovered. Her values didn't cover any 'isms' racism feminism humanism she was a cold hearted socio path and people who would celebrate her need to be better informed or look at their own morals.

[Nanc123]

hitler had power of his convictions...should we herald him too??

[tethersend]

Irrespective of whether you agree(d) with her policies or not, it is testament to the dire state of play WRT women's position in politics that Margaret Thatcher is hailed as a feminist icon by virtue of having a vagina.

She is held up as a feminist icon because she is the only female Prime Minister we have ever had. That in itself is a disgrace.

[perceptionreality]

Quite, Nanc

[perceptionreality]

I disagree, her gender has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[ItsGrimUpNorth]

"Its nothing to do with the empire, look at the 1970s Britain was an absolute mess with a backwards and uncompetitive economy and she turned it around."

Really? I remember some very very dark economic days in the '80's and '90's.

She isn't/wasn't a sociopath though. Just very driven, cold and committed to the free market economy. Just like a lot of business men. Only the bottom line matters. Except she wasn't really because the privatisation of say, water companies hardly opened up the market to competition.

[perceptionreality]

She revelled in her capacity to not give a f*ck. What a badge of honour.

[rosy71]

I think Mrs Thatcher has to be admired purely because she reached the office of Prime Minister. She was also a Prime Minister who made radical changes - something that not every Prime Minister has done. I'm quite shocked at some of the comments on here; I agree that she is probably so vilified in some quarters because she was a woman. It's ironic that women who identify themselves as feminists can hold such views. Are all women in public life/office supposed to be whiter than white, caring and compassionate whilst men can be a wide range of things? That doesn't sound very feminist to me.

I wouldn't describe her as a feminist. She was obviously a very driven individual who was extremely successful, against the odds really. As someone else pointed out, she was also a scientist - another unusual thing for a woman. I imagine she didn't see being a woman as a disadvantage, therefore didn't see that feminism was relevant.

Whether you agree with her politics or not, it can't be disputed that becoming Prime Minister was an amazing achievement. In the 1980s my dad was talking to his class and mentioned a previous prime minister. One little boy said, "are men allowed to be Prime Minister too then?" I don't think any child would think that today!

[LadyHarrietDeSpook]

I am a Yank and was only 8 when she got elected. But I have always wondered if anyone would have dare asked HER the snivelling question they always ask women executives or politicians:

"Maggie, is it possible for a woman to "have it all???"

Somehow, I think not. Unless I'm missing something.

The majority of discussion around her concerns her policies, which were contentious- of course. But what I think is great is that it is not GENERALLY about the fact that she was a woman. In the history books it's going to be Margaret Thatcher, responsible for xyz, first, and Margaret Thatcher, first woman PM, second. A close second, but second.

[tethersend]

"Whether you agree with her politics or not, it can't be disputed that becoming Prime Minister was an amazing achievement."

Aye, there's the rub- the fact that this is still the case makes me very, very sad indeed.

I think she was utterly evil; however, I think it is dangerous to align feminism with left wing views.

Her policies do not proclude her from being a feminist icon; any more than having a vagina makes her one.

[IslaDoit]

"[Margaret Thatcher's] policies do not proclude her from being a feminist icon; any more than having a vagina makes her one."

Quote of the week?

[tethersend]

Jesus, no- I meant preclude

[WetAugust]

I was 22 when she came to power.

I well remember the dying years of the Callaghan governemnt - Winter of Discontent etc. Many of you criticising Thatcher are too young to have had any personal knowledge of what it was like to live in those times.

The country needed a strong Prime Minister in 1979 to sort out the mess that Labour had left. It got it with Mrs Thatcher.

Where she went wrong was to believe utterly that she was always right and to fail to take advice from her Cabinet / political advisors.

She became out of touch and we ended up with poorly thought out policies e.g. Poll Tax.

She was no feminist.

But you are juding her by the standards of today and not those of 30 odd years ago when she was PM.

Those were very different times in terms of equality and diversity.

[IslaDoit]

I was not born when she came to power but even by today's standards she's no feminist

[edam]

Wetaugust - I remember Maggie only too well. Growing up in South Yorkshire during the miners' strike, it was kind of hard to miss her. We were effectively living under martial law, with the Met up on overtime having licence to give anyone they didn't like a good kicking, or worse. My family aren't miners, btw, so I had no personal grudge - just saw what she did to people, at the time and for generations afterwards. She suspended the rule of law and the London media didn't even notice.

Maggie was strong all right - strong in the belief that she could do what the fuck she liked. We have been paying for it ever since - the current crisis is the direct result of her policies, tearing up any regulation of the City, destroying primary and secondary industries in favour of a 'service economy'. (And no thanks to the governments that came after her for continuing the love affair with the spivs in the City).

[edam]

Btw, I saw the Maggie film a couple of months ago - entirely fails to mention her support for apartheid S Africa (and Denis's dodgy business dealings with that vicious regime). Of course they had to leave it out, because if they'd been honest, audiences would have lost a lot of sympathy. These days it's hard to believe the Young Conservatives used to sing 'Hang Nelson Mandela' at Tory Party Conferences for a laugh.

[WetAugust]

Edam - that's why I said she went too far and became delusional.

When i was a teenager in the 1970s it was just one big round of strikes. The electricity workers would strike resulting in power cuts, Then the miners would strike, resulting in a lack of coal and more power cuts. that strike would be settled and then the car workers / train drivers dockers etc would strike. Settle those and it would be the power generators turn again.

The WofD had hospital workers out - operations cancelled, refuse collectors out - rubbish piling high in the streets, transport workers out - food supply shortages, steel workers out - manufacturing industry ground to a halt, etc.

The dead even went unburied.

It was just one round after another of strikes holding the country to ransom as each scetor of the workforce attempted to keep up with the settlements of strikers.

What Thatcher did was break that pernicious behaviour. Heath and Callaghan had both tried and failed.

The miners strike was a dreadful period. She knew was she was doing when she stockpiled coal before taking them on. The Police in those days were violent - that existed long before Thatcher's time and there were many miscarriages of justice. Thatcher brought in PACE.

I'm no fan of hers. I couldn't wait for her to leave office. That Thursday morning she announced she was stepping down was fantastic!

I just get a bit riled when people who have no personal experience just trot out hatred about her. You're not one of them.

[perceptionreality]

Sorry but just because some of us were not around in the 70s does not mean we are not allowed to disagree with what she stood for.

[yellowraincoat]

Oh come on, how many people on here are young enough to not have been around when Thatcher was PM?

Besides, I have no personal experience of Hitler, but I'm not a fan of him either.