Margaret Thatcher - Feminist Icon?

[OnlyANinja]

The Guardian asks a number of influential women (apparently) but I'd rather ask MNers.

[areyoutheregoditsmemargaret]

By the way, Dennis's first wife left him and left him devastated, all before her left Maggie, so to suggest she was also a husband stealer is quite wrong.

[WidowWadman]

winkywinkola - what would that "third way" be then? I don't think that if you really want to argue equality you can go on about how different women allegedly would do it.

[WinkyWinkola]

The third way is equality, Widow. That is what feminism is about.

Equality is not what Thatcher espoused in any sense of the word.

And equality is certainly not prevalent in the 21st century. For women, the disabled, for people of colour. It's still disgraceful.

[perceptionreality]

Why do people keep saying this is about her being a woman?? Her gender has nothing to do with it. It's not about whether it's inappropriate for a woman to be ruthless rather than caring.

What it's about is her entirely unprincipled decision making. Same as the current bunch of tories.

[bemybebe]

I am not sure I understand what do you mean by "her entirely unprincipled decision making". Do you mean she declared certain principles but her decisions did not support them?

[perceptionreality]

Everyone knows what unprincipled means.

[bemybebe]

i know what is "unprincipled" is...
I don't understand what is "unprincipled decision making"

[areyoutheregoditsmemargaret]

Yes, I know what unprincipled means, it means not having any principles

Mrs T most definitely had principles. They are not your principles. They aren't mine, as it happens. But you can't say someone's decision making was unprincipled when we're talking about a woman whose most salient feature was sticking unwaveringly to what she believed.

[perceptionreality]

No, it means lacking a moral compass. It means unscrupulous. She knew what the consequences of her policies would be but she didn't care. That's what's unprincipled. I'm sure Hitler had what he would have called principles as well...

[WinkyWinkola]

Oh no. Don't bring Hitler into it.

[OnlyANinja]

Do you think, though, that often people will call someone "unprincipled" when what they actually mean is "I do not agree with their principles"?

[perceptionreality]

No, 'unprincipled' does not mean 'has no principles'. That's not the definition of the word.

'Her attitude and contempt towards margins of our society bred a very greedy, ruthless and selfish minority that have basically led us to the situation we are in now.' - that's how I see her influence.

Hitler has already been mentioned I think along with quite a few others.

[perceptionreality]

It's really rude to refer to someone as nuts.

[perceptionreality]

oh and I didn't specifically compare her with Hitler but I do think she was evil (I'm not the only one on this thread either). She also had dubious allies (Pinochet??)

[WinkyWinkola]

Unprincipled actually means lacking some moral compass.

I do believe that can be applied to Thatcher.

It does not mean not having any principles.

Ah yes, Pinochet. They were very good friends, weren't they? If you can be buddy buddy with a mass murderer, then where exactly do you stop? That imo is like being friends with Hitler. That is a valid comparison.

Hence, she is unprincipled.

[WinkyWinkola]

Here you are. God love her - fighting for his release. Not what an icon does in my book.

[GirlWithPointyShoes]

As someone quite new to exploring the depths of feminism (thanks to you lot) I'm still shakey on the ins and outs of our history etc. But from what I have learned in this short time is basically what Winky said. We want Equality. I don't think that's what Thatcher was about either.

So in my humble opinion no she was not a feminist icon.

[qwerty5]

Of course Thatcher was not a feminist. If she had been, she'd have been expending all her energy on perceived slights against women instead of embarking on the rather more holistic activity of politics.

[GirlWithPointyShoes]

I have always assumed that equality was a political issue.

[WinkyWinkola]

By perceived slights, do you mean the gender pay gap? For example? How silly of feminists to think this isn't right.

[Gladyss]

No definately not a femail icon. A woman who handed the 'medicine' for other to take whilst doing untold damage to the country. Taking away the tax benefit involved in company pension schemes was the down fall of final salary pension schemes, allowing money to be moved out of the country allowing more global movement of money- no loyalty to where it has been earned. and finaly disempowering the unions which now means lack of protection against bad employers (even when the unions had over stretched their power) She should be ashamed of her legacy.

[sashh]

Mocking someone's debilitating illness is extremely low. There is no excuse.

Normally I would agree, but for MT I will make an exception.

Evil, pure evil.

[rosabud]

I haven't read the whole thread, and there is very little that Thatcher ever did that I don't absolutely abhor, BUT - I think that today it's easy for people to forget how different women's experiences/lives/prospects were in 1979 to how they are today and therefore underestimate her astonishing achievement at becoming prime minister despite her gender. It was amazing/unheard of/unbelievable.

Some of the very ordinary things I remember at the time she was elected include a comedian on TV making a joke about how she was "going to run the country, just as soon as she'd finished washing up and doing the ironing," I remember the audience laughing hysterically and, as a young child, thinking "Oh, yes, he has a point!" Not because I was anti-women or anything, but because that was how society was already training me to think. I also remember my Dad, a perfectly ordinary decent man, saying things like he was now ashamed to be called an Englishman (we were living abroad at the time.) People forget that such attitudes were not extreme or odd or laughable in 1979, they were the norm, and simply by overcoming all of that to get to the top, she allowed young girls like myself to look at the whole situation, at women's position in society at the time, and start seeing it for what it really was - pretty awful.

[scottishmummy]

no fan but she did rise up in male dominated politics
was mc but not landed or titled like the other horahs
however she had questionable morality,no empathy,and attacked the working classes and unions