Sexism on CBBC

[sunshineandbooks]

I supervise my DC's TV viewing quite carefully because I worry about media portrayal of women and the way in which society is presented in general. I hate advertising so we tend to stick to CBeebies/CBBC/laptop. I turned on CBBC this morning, thinking state-subsidised broadcaster, high ethical standards, etc. So imagine my horror when their Young Dracula programme was introduced with the presenter promising "not to scream like a girl"

Have just emailed a complaint.

[sunshineandbooks]

Thanks everyone.

[pinkytheshrinky]

Really,far too much time on your hands

[GrumpyInRepose]

you must be rushed off your feet pinky! and yet you've time to criticise other people for being interested in something you are not! If you want something done - or indeed if you don't - ask a busy woman, etc etc

[sunshineandbooks]

Almost couldn't be bothered to type this as the old 'time on your hands' argument is so ridiculous it doesn't really merit an answer (after all, it takes just as much time to respond as it does to start a conversation). However, since 'angry feminists who spend their whole lives looking for something to criticise' is a popular feminist bingo put-down, I thought I'd rebuff it.

I work a full-time job with overtime, work in a volunteer capacity for something else, am a single-parent of two (and still have my one-time foster daughter over once or twice a week), help out with a local history club, walk a dog twice a day and follow a personal fitness regime too. Fortunately, I'm good at multi-tasking and can touch type.

What do you do pinky?

[GrumpyInRepose]

Makiko

[messyisthenewtidy]

Fwiw op my ds thinks you did the right thing. According to him "they're always saying stuff like that at school" so you see the little things are just part of a bigger picture.

And seriously pinky maybe you should learn to touchtype then you'll see it really doesn't take more than a couple of minutes to whip up a complaint. maybe you should try it instead of just accepting everything without thinking.

ooh look this post only took me two minutes. The marvels of having nimble fingers!

[SurprisEs]

I'm not a feminist myself although I have some feminist views but I really can't see a problem with it. It's a silly comment from the presenter but I don't think children take things like that too seriously. I certainly didn't when I was a child. I may be wrong, I don't know, but I feel like there are far worse things to worry about. I would never criticise someone for complaining about something they truly believed was wrong. The too much time on your hands argument is ignorant.

[HecateGoddessOfTheNight]

When determining whether something is wrong, I find the best thing to do is to substitute a different group of people. If it takes your breath away or you think hang on, that's quite an unpleasant and negative stereotype there - then it's wrong!

So - I won't be a wimp is what is being said. It is being said by the use of the following sentence.

"I promise not to scream like a girl"

I promise not to scream like a black person"

I promise not to scream like a disabled person"

I promise not to scream like an asian person"

It's actually not on, is it?

girl = scaredy wimp = ok?
black = scaredy wimp? would you?
disabled = scaredy wimp? would you?
asian = scaredy wimp? would you?

It really doesn't matter what it is, how minor it is seen to be, it's drip drip drip negativity and putting down and using 'girl' as a negative thing.

screaming like a girl
big girl's blouse
don't be such a girl

drip drip drip girl is bad girl is silly girl is weak...

When you see the big picture, rather than focusing on what seems at a thoughtless glance to be something very minor, you see what is really going on and that it's actually a problem.

[GrumpyInRepose]

The way I look at it though SurpriseEs is that nothing really matters on it's own. So in a way I agree with the 'Lighten up!' crowd, , but it's the cumulative effect that's so insidious, on both adults and kids. It is a bit of a hydra's head though. dispiriting.

[BedatHogwarts]

They do listen. I remember a time when many of the girls birthday cards were shown with accompanying comments such as 'Ooh, Olivia, don't you look pretty in your party frock' and 'Sophie, you look like a birthday princess'. Then we had a Mumsnet webchat with one of the big cheeses at Cbeebies, someone brought the subject up, and voila, I haven't heard a looks-related comment since!

[GrumpyInRepose]

x with hecate to say what she said.

[SurprisEs]

I can see where you're coming from but a well balanced and well educated child with reasonable parents will not be affected by those silly comments. I'm trying my best for DD to have a broad mind and a strong personality.

[GrumpyInRepose]

It depends on how wide your scope is though.
It's not just cbeebies presenters making the odd thoughtless comment. It's everywhere, quite literally. Grannies, shop assistants, advertising, peer groups.


Plus the fact that not every child has good parenting to fall back on, sadly.

[SurprisEs]

Slightly off topic but I think it'll help me understand things a bit better. If your daughter turned out to be a pink lover and adored all things princessy and sparkly what would you do? And would you blame it on society?

[GrumpyInRepose]

SurprisES-

They all seem to go through that pink stage.

I hate it though, because that Disney princess stuff seems to rely on being passive and pretty. Gets them focussed on their looks at a very young age as the most important thing about them. This is hugely damaging for girls and women right through their lives. Also it's very encouraging of conformity, which is less than ideal for everyone.
And yes I do blame society, look at toy shops with their girl and boy aisles, toy ads are incredibly gendered. Most people don't analyse it much and will pick up something nice from the pink aisle for a girl, or soem sort of Construct a Monster-Destructo kit for a boy. There's no research to show that boys and girls brains are any different at that age, there's no 'innate' preferences at all, so it's totally coming from society. And by society I mean US. (My mums friend had to hide the tea set she bought for her GS from her son in law). But it seems to based on 'common sense' in the absense of any scientific evidence, and the fact that cultural norms differ in different places and times and are reflected in different behaviours & preferences. When you look t it that way it's daft to insist that a boy couldn't possibly enjoy playing with pink teaset. That's totally an adult notion.

It's a prescient question for me as DD 2.6 is showing signs of entering that phase. i'm going to let her run with it, so as not to give her the idea that 'girly' things are inferior. But ideally I'd abolish the notion of girly/boyish things altogether, and just help her accept preferences as individual quirks not determined by gender.

[SurprisEs]

Our daughters are of a very similar age (DD is 2.3). I also wish toys were less gender stereotyped but I just fear at times that feminism is taken to such an extreme that girls who like pink fluffy stuff may be led to feel inferior in some way. Some children are naturally that way. Isn't feminism based on the right to choose?

For DD second birthday she was bought a Barbie followed by the comment (every girl should have one). I smiled, took no offence and let DD decide if she wanted to play with it. She preferred the dinosaur I'd bought her. I make sure she experiences variety and empowerment.
Matter of fact is that companies cater for the market in front of them.

I find those comments are an amazing opportunity for me to educate DD and are a chance for discussion (not very broad giving her age)

[GrumpyInRepose]

It's not feminism that's taken to extremes though - i would think most feminists would try not to denigrate girls stuff and big up boys. My dd is into dinosaurs too - she doesn't realise they are 'for boys' yet. But look how different it would be if someone bought your DS a dinosaur and he prefered the Barbie? It's ok for girls to 'aspire' to be like boys, but a boy shouldn't 'lower' himself to be like a girl.

Variety is good and well, but it's the notion of such rigid gender definitions that's troublesome. Barbies/dinosaurs in themselves don't make much difference, it's the stereotyping attached to them But not all gender stereotypes are harmless, and I think it's a pity such young children are encouraged to accept them as fact. It becomes so ingrained. Very difficult to shake off that type of thinking s an adult woman or man.

[SurprisEs]

DH had a bit of a dilemma last Christmas with his nephew. He wanted to buy him a cash register but didn't because he was worried his BIL wouldn't let the boy play with it. Ended up buying him a tractor.

I suppose we have the same principles but we differ in the fact I would rather educate my child and hope for the best but wouldn't complain as I don't think people realise their ignorance half the time.

If you saw a girl with a Disney princess outfit and glitter on her nail in the street would you assume that's all she plays with? Because that's something I worry ( not much) about. If DD decides she likes those things will I be portrayed negatively even though she has been exposed to broad tastes?

[GrumpyInRepose]

We have the same principles AND the same strategy really. I'd never say anything to anyone who bought my kids a present except 'thank you'. But I'd never buy her a pink Disney makeup kit myself, for eg. And I educate her and say it's silly to think girls and boys like different things. But we're only her parents, we're up against the rest of the world really.
I do think the little things add up.

[SurprisEs]

Yes it is ridiculous to have a pink globe on sale but it would soon be removed if it wasn't profitable. I find ELC a great place with plenty of variety and really don't think they have an influence on a child's upbringing, unlike the parent who chides to buy the pink globe. It sells and they want to make money.

[alexpolismum]

SGM - I think that the gendering of toys has far more to do with making money than anything else. The idea being that you buy the pink one for your dd and then buy another one for her younger brother, rather than just passing on the toy dd used.

Some people really are mad buying into this sort of thing, though. A good friend of mine brought me a bagful of hand-me-down clothes from her children for mine. I asked her if she was sure she didn't want to keep them for her younger dd (the brothers are a bit older). "No, they're all boys' clothes, she can't wear them," came the reply. I went through them later to find green tracksuits, jumpers with animal motifs, and a perfectly good winter coat that just happened to be light blue.

Over here, I wish comments like "scream like a girl" were all we had to worry about! There is so much sexism on TV I would hardly know where to start complaining about it!