Do you remember a specific moment where you realised that being female put you at a disadvantage?

[ChickensHaveNoEyebrows]

I have three.

1. I was about 8, and my best friend was a boy. We went to his house to play and I remember being so envious of his toys. He had lego, a real tool kit, a chemistry set, a metal detector etc. These were Boys Things, and I remember thinking how unfair that was.

2. From the age of 9 I begged my Dad to teach me to play 'Risk', because he often played it with his friends. He fobbed me off for years, and then one day I came home and found him teaching my 9 year old brother. Apparently, 'Risk' was a Man's Game.

3. At age 13, I was moaning about washing up the lunch things. My mother and aunt laughed and told me I'd best get used to it. When I said that if I got married, my husband would also wash up, they practically wet themselves with mirth.

All of these events made me feel so frustrated and angry. In fact, I spent a large part of my childhood thinking I must have been born in the wrong body because 'proper' girls didn't hanker after a saw, or desire to conquer america, or find washing up boring as fuck. You?

I have never felt that I was worth less as a female.

The first time I remember sexism was when I was in the queue to go into my first Engineering WT&P O-level lesson and one of the boys turned to me and said that the Domestic Science lab was upstairs. I didn't feel worth less than the boys, I just presumed he had made a reasonable presumption because I was the only girl in the queue. He was making a judgement on my sex and was therefore thinking in a sexist way, but he was not thinking that I was worth less than the boys in the queue.

I guess I'm lucky because I have been brought up to believe that being female is a blessing, not a curse, so anyone who presumes that I am worth less simply because I'm a female just gets laughed at and told not to be so stupid.

I'm quite surprised at how many posters have said that only a small number of girls took sciences. I went to a mixed-sex school, left sixth form in 1988, and in physics, chemistry, maths (applied and pure) and biology, there was no obvious bias of one sex or another. In fact, thinking about it, I think Applied Maths (which is more physics-based than pure), it was four girls and two or three boys.

It is heartening to read of those who challenged the sexist presumptions of the school teachers.

When I got a Cabbage Patch doll from my aunt for Christmas aged 8 and my brother got a Transformer which I had coveted for weeks. My parents bought me one anyway but I remember holding this doll with this rictus grin whilst itching to play with my transformer.

When I realised at 11 in school assembly that I was the only girl in the class (all girls school) with hairy legs and felt pushed to buy razors etc out of my pocket money whilst my brother got to continue to spend his on fun stuff (my mum would have bought me razors had I asked but I was embarrassed). I went to a very academic all girls school so we were all encouraged to do every subject so there was no disadvantage there - we all had to do 3 sciences as well as Maths to GCSE, plus Design and Technology included graphic design, electronics and woodwork as well as fabric/food tech.

When I was at university and I realised that there was a club that no woman could join, whereas men could join all the other clubs.

When I was chatting with some of my male university peers (18 and 19 year olds) and it became clear that not one of these well-educated, eloquent, respectful men had the slightest idea about how female biological functions worked, were in a complete state of ignorance and viewed them as slightly grubby mysteries.

And just recently when my husband mentioned that he was interviewing for an academic post at the department he worked at. When a particular female candidate had finished her interview and left the first comment from another panel member was on her breast size. DH challenged him and he backed down but that shocked me a lot.

2 years ago I had a termination - I was depressed and dependent on alcohol and other things, while trying (and failing) to keep myself together for my career's sake. Pretty much hated myself all round really. When I found out I was pregnant I felt two things. Immediately I knew I could not tell the man as it would undoubtedly "get round" and I would be seen as a "slag," etc etc. Sadly, in my backwater little town, I KNOW this would have happened. (partially my fault for choosing a particularly vile specimen of man, I accept that.)

Secondly, I was just so livid (with myself and the "system) at the circumstances of me getting pregnant. I had been to the docs to get the morning after pill as I had had unprotected sex the night before. Was told it would cost £26. I was panicking at this stage as I REALLY didn't have £26 to spare, but I paid up anyway, hoping I could borrow. Got into my car, opened up the little box and pulled out the blister thing to find the pill had already been popped and was not in the box or anywhere!

I went back into the dispensary place where the (male) pharmacist told me this couldn't possibly be correct and basically implied I was trying to hoarde morning after pills. I certainly did not have another £26 to spend so did the most foolish thing I could have and decided to take a chance. ("it'll be ok - I'd have to be really unlucky, etc etc)

Whole termination process was unpleasant - had the pill and pessaries so was allowed to go home. While in extreme pain and scared to death on my own in bathroom I just could not believe the situtation I'd got myself into, and how even though 2 people had acted irresponsibly, only one of us was paying.

Sorry that's really long and depressing - I've never really written about that before. This is such an eye-opening thread though.

I was lucky in that I was the first (and only) girl to do Woodwork instead of Home Economics at school. I used to love playing with trains and trucks, but having 3 older brothers we had loads of boys toys. And my Dad used to take me fishing and hiking regularly.

However, my Mum used to always say "once you get married and have children, your life is over". Guess what? I'm not married and have no children.

I think I first realised being female was a disadvantage when I was told that in Christianity, women should submit to men. I wanted to know if allwomen were just supposed to submit to any man, because I knew a lot who were a lot less capable than me and I couldn't understand why I should submit to any of them. However, I didn't even question the "man is head of the household" for years later - it was so drummed into me.

Amazingly nothing until I married.

My mother was determined to have only girls and was quite put out by people assuming she wanted a boy. We had a full range of toys growing up and were taken to climb trees, fly kites etc (as my Mum did as a child). Me and my sister are the 4th generation of only girls born into our family (my DD is the 5th) my Mum reckons we reject male sperm!

I went to an all girls school were it was expected that we would do wood work, all sciences etc. University had started with only women so had a strong feminist perspective and studying women in literature gave me access to some amazing role models in the Professors.

Then I got married.

My MIL is very much old school. The house is my domain because having a vagina and breasts makes you best qualified to scrub a loo. This was back when I was earning far more than DH so was the breadwinner in our household (even now being PT I earn the same as him).

We had a female mortgage advisor who put me first because of my salary and MIL said we should complain!

Oh Gin. How are you doing now? x

Gin that's awful. I'm so sad and angry you had to go through that!

Gin - that is utter shit. I am appalled that anyone had to go through that. Mine are tame in comparison.

1. In infant school. (70's) I remember hearing something in assembly about how someone had done something amazing "for a woman". I remember thinking why is it amazing just because its a woman? Following on in Junior school, being teased as I didn't like 'girl' things. Thankfully by secondary I went to an all girls school with some teachers who were strident feminists (bless em) who didn't hold any truck with that kind of nonsense.

1. Being teased mercilessly by my extended family (as was my sister) for being too academic. No boys will like me (for shame) I will never get a husband (dear god no!). Worse crime of all - studying science - what good is Physics to a home maker?

3.Off to uni (sis and I first women to go in our family) - Comment from family member "why aren't you settling down and getting a husband and having children like 'normal' women?"

Since then I've been passed over for promotion for someone's golfing buddy and treated like shit for daring to get Pregnant first time around. Both times I voted with my feet and moved on. I now have revenge on my family by being married, having children and earning more than every last fucking one of them. (sorry, thats not a boast, its just two fingers at the tosser who came out with the "normal" women comment.)

and I hope it's a very gratifying two fingers, babyheave - well deserved :)

I can't think when it all started - certainly my DM would come into the lounge and say "I need help with dinner" and Dsis and I were expected to go cut potatoes while DS was allowed to continue watching neighbours... but it started earlier than that I should think.

Recently, on marrying and when DH mooted staying home with any putative children as he has a more flexible career than me, a (dailyFail reading) aunt hooted "Oh, you can't make him do that, it'll kill your marriage! Men don't like it when you DE-masculate them!"

DH and I laugh about demasculation all the time. We think it involves unscrewing the vital parts, perhaps like a lightbulb?

Thanks for those comments, chickens LRD and babyheave.
I am still livid by the whole thing, but also incredulous that I had that little confidence I did not insist on being given a replacement pill. I would like to think I would now, but who knows.
I think I feel quite "normal" now compared to back then. I was fotunate enough to get 6 free sessions of counselling through my county council, which helped massively. The important thing for me is that I no longer hate myself and I actually have gathered a bit of slef-respect from somewhere, which is nice!

That is good. I was thinking about other threads about health/medics and people were saying a lot that it takes a huge amount of confidence to argue against a medic - there's a horrible combination of god complex and lack of concern for women's bodies IMO. I hope it's changing.

oh, I think that's very true LRD - I was all prepared to be bolshy about what I wanted during my birth and stuff, and DH was primed ... but it was still hard, when tired and overwhelmed, to say "Who are you and what are you doing?" when the 500th person came in for a shufti at me bits. . . It's not simple at all, challenging medical personnel.

Interestingly, I have a really good relationship with DS's pediatrician, a young guy who explains what is happening ALL THE TIME, and tells me options and gives recommendations - and it's made me look for that in my other doctors, I ask more questions because I know the kind of information I want. So at least I know what I want it to be like, now!

Sorry for the tangent, there.

I have a DD and a DS. Am I supposed to tell them the education system was biased in favour of boys when I was at school and there was no coursework and in favour of girls now? Is a Dad who goes to a Parents and Toddler group where the Mums snub him privileged? Does it matter if his toddler is a boy or a girl? Is it going to be sexist when women's motor insurance premiums rocket due to an EU directive, or not? Does all this moaning really make Mumsnet an uplifting experience?

black - I'll take that as a warning! It is really nice to know what to expect - and yes, I would say it's uplifting.

Btw, IMO the education system is a very long way from being biased in favour of girls, especially at the level of Higher Education (which is pretty important since these days I'm not sure it matters if you sailed through GCSE and A Level only to fall down on a degree).

Not sure if you actually want answers to your post, HYS, but for "Does all this moaning really make Mumsnet an uplifting experience?" - yes. It's women's lived experiences, and hearing them, validating them, sharing them is what the 70s Feminists called "consciousness raising" - and it is very important. And I find it uplifting, if nothing else because I realise hey, it's not me: it's the patriarchy.