why are there so many depressed women?

[planks2short1s]

In all my years,and many incarnations, on mn this is the first time I have been brave enough to post in this section so please be gentle.

I read an artice the other day about how more than half all women have been prescribed anti depressants at some point. Hands up I have been on anti depressants in the past so no judgement on that one. I alsoo had a conversation with a woman who says she is in complete denial about having to go back to work following mat leave, which I can certainly relate to. So my question is -

"Do you think growing up as a feminist, aiming at self sufficiency, a good sustainable career and equality contributes to depression amongst new mothers?"

I felt completely unprepared for the physical and mental shock at the realisation that, despite all of my earlier ideals and achievements, that I really didnt want to return to work after having dd (have to for financial reasons) as not wanting to work goes against all of my ideals.

[Bonsoir]

"I have never felt forced to go out to work or stay at home, but I have felt very strongly and instinctively that I want to be at home with my children when they are little, and simultaneously felt very strongly and instinctively that I want to continue working."

Yes, it's a dilemma for a huge number of women. Unresolved dilemmas are one of the major causes of human anxiety and depression.

[Hullygully]

I think that women (and men) are depressed because society has developed in such a way that we are all cut off from our fundamental biological selves (NOT in a biology as destiny kind of way), illness is frowned upon, moods and hormones are made up or should be contolled medically, children are a nuisance, old people a drag etc etc and success is measured in material gain. Buy and be happy.

Rampant free market capitalism and consumerism do not make for happy fulfilling lives. And women get the brunt of it.

[Bonsoir]

I think that is true for some people, Hully . I really don't feel that way at all - I feel fully an animal, and I try pretty hard to recognise my children's animality and teach them about it - but I know exactly what you mean and many people completely bypass their own biology in their daily existence.

[Hullygully]

Maybe there's a corollary - maybe if you are wealthy enough, you have the luxury of feeling your animal self as the economic pressure is eased up a little.

Altho I can't tell you how difficult I find it to picture you as an animal...

[Hullygully]

And that would also fit with the Nicola Horlick thing about staff. Money, again.

[Bonsoir]

"Staff" are dreadful for happiness, IMVHO. Having people running around under foot in your personal space removes you from your own animality and responsibility for your own life.

And, while I think money always helps (it gives you choices), what you really need to buy with it is time and space and the freedom to explore, rather than stuff or help.

[Hullygully]

Yes, but time and space and the freedom to explore are a lot easier if yo don't have to empty the washing machine, go to Sainsbury's and come up with yet another sodding idea for a dinner that everyone will eat.

[Hullygully]

I love staff. I want a housekeeper with jangly keys to discuss menus with every morning.

[Bonsoir]

Really? That's my idea of total hell (and, let's face it, I could easily have that lifestyle if I wanted!).

[Hullygully]

Choice.

Choice and money. They both help enormously.

[MarshaBrady]

I totally agree re staff. It's just people to manage.

[Bonsoir]

I agree, Hully, but you also need an education and, sometimes, a great strength of character to make lifestyle choices that are à contre courant, IYSWIM.

[Bonsoir]

Yes, Marsha, and rather often they are the sort of people that need micro-managing all day long.

Now, little fairies that did everything I wanted without needing instructions or TLC or turning my house upside down I could probably cope with... Until they come along, I shall outsource as much as possible of the dross outside my home and deal with the rest myself.

[Hullygully]

Once they are trained up they need very little managing.

[Hullygully]

I don't have any staff, you understand. Apart from a lovely cleaner who is my friend and another friend who does gardening now and then when she wants a few quid.

[Bonsoir]

Go on dreaming Hully!

[Hullygully]

That's all part of it too, actually. Look at all the shit we fill our homes with: thousands of books, pictures etc all designed to showcase who we are, and all needs maintaining and cleaning.

[Besom]

'Sandwich caring' has to be a factor as well. It's still often women who end up caring for ageing parents and children or even grandchildren at the same time. I know people who have ended up looking after several older relatives at once. Can be very stressful especially if trying to work at the same time or can lead to poverty if cannot work due to responsibilities.

[WriterofDreams]

I don't think this is specifically a feminist issue, I think it's an issue with society as a whole. I agree with you Hully. And I also think that in people are given the message (often by their parents) that if they just work hard enough they can have it all - a big house, a snazzy car, beautiful, successful, well-educated children, etc etc etc. People have totally bought into the idea that you can endlessly "improve" yourself and they're passing it onto their children in a very unhealthy way. This has really hit me since I had DS last year. So much expensive shit is marketed to parents - toys, classes, massage workshops (WTactualF??) with the not so subtle implication that by buying these things that you're improving your child's development, coordination, bloody Chi and aura FFS and that if you don't do it your children will lose out in some way.

It continues in primary school where parents fight tooth and nail and worry themselves sick over getting their child into a "good" school and take them to a hundred after school classes so that they can be "successful." In secondary school huge pressure is put on them to study and do well in exams so they can go to a "good" university. Their whole childhood is given over to following this path that will, inevitably, of course, naturally lead to greatness, won't it?? It has to be worth it, doesn't it?? Those children become adults who have been given the message all their lives that they are special, they can do anything, they can get to the top. Then are adults who have grade 7 in piano (having given up just before grade 8 when the terrible 13s kicked in) and a degree in English literature who find themselves in the real world where the world isn't handed to them on plate and they aren't in fact special, they're just one of a big bunch of people just as educated as they are all fighting to find their place in life. They've never had to think or fend for themselves and now they're thrust into a world where luck and circumstance play a massive role in how things pan out for them. They have children and their whole world changes. And suddenly the message that they could do anything and be anything seems like a huge awful joke played on them by their parents, their teachers and their peers. They're just as vulnerable as everyone else, just as out of control and no amount of baby massage made any difference to them. So they become stressed and tired, and in the end ill and depressed.

[Bonsoir]

Hully - talk for yourself - my home is very empty and books get chucked out regularly. If I want to showcase my knowledge, it's in my head not my bookcase...

[bibbitybobbityhat]

Spot on Hully. Couldn't agree more. In my ideal world my staff would be a cook 4 days a week. If I were freed from that particular tyranny, my life would honestly be a lot lighter and easier. I'd rather have help with the drudgery of cooking than a car, for instance.

[Hullygully]

WoD - yes, I was talking about this with some friends the other day, about how we all stress over schools, etc etc, and yet the vast majority of our special unique talented little lovelies will end up living ordinary lives, and be happy/unhappy about it.

Just me that lives amongst the tottering book towers then. They represent security for me so I'm allowed. Only safe things I had in my childhood (pore ol me). So ner.

[Hullygully]

Bibs - I have a lovely friend who loves cooking (imagine). So sometimes I pay her to make dinners and bring em round. I poay for ingredients and time on an hourly basis. It's fab - and much nicer than my offerings. Dh does cook too, but he's not around much at the mo.