How do we raise our sons to treat girls and women respectfully...?

[SpeedyGonzalez]

...no matter what they look like, what they're wearing, etc?

This thread is inspired by AnyFucker's thread about how her teen DD wants to dress, but it's about inculcating our sons with an inbuilt respect for women and belief that they are their equals.

[southeastastra]

you could hit them with something to get their attention

i don't think i've met anyone who thought like that before though

[AnyFucker]

then you are lucky, sea

because the world is full of 'em

and your teenage boys are taking it alllll in (unfortunately)

[southeastastra]

where do you live? i don't see it

[Didyouever]

I've never heard anyone say anything like this, the parents I know all seem to encourage boys and girls equally to make the best of themselves.

[Grockle]

Interesting thread. As a single parent of a boy, this is something I should think about. But I do agree with SEA - why do boys get blamed for all of this?

I try to teach DS about respecting people (regardless of sex), that we both do jobs in the house because we are a family and it is our home so we share the work (he's 5 so his 'share' is setting the table or putting his toys away). Since starting school, he's becoming very keen on the 'pink is for girls thing'... 9 months ago, he desperately wanted pink wellies. When he wore a dress to school to raise money for Comic Relief, he was laughed at (by the girls, mainly). But he is,generally, a lovely, kind, considerate boy and I hope that continues. I can only do my best.

[AnyFucker]

sea, do you disbelieve me ?

[Grockle]

Thinking about it, DP wolf whistles at me from time to time . He thinks it is a compliment. I have let him know it is not. But DS has copied him and now wolf whistles too

Things happen all around us all the time and I think we are conditioned to not really take any notice. That's not good, is it?

[frantic51]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this but is it a good thing to take knobs like your friend seriously? I haven't actually run that post past my son as he isn't here at the moment but I would guess that he would probably smile and then dismiss the remark as frivolous and give it no more thought. It wouldn't affect the way he views girls/women. He values people for who they are, male or female.

When trying to bolster his younger sister's confidence one day, (she has a terrible crush on a boy at school who doesn't seem to notice she exists and, consequently, believes herself unattractive) he pronounced her prettier than his girlfriend, if considered dispassionately. When she looked incredulous he said, "but I love X because of who she is, not what she looks like and she's the most beautiful girl in the world to me, and when you meet a boy who views you in the same way he'll be worthy of your time and attention."

What I mean is, it's the attitude they are brought up with at home that matters most, surely? If not, why are there so many truly decent young men out there despite the stereotyping we are still bombarded with by the media? I'm perfectly sure my son isn't unique! I think that there will always be knobs with prehistoric attitudes no matter what legislation is in place.

[AnyFucker]

no I didn't take him seriously, hence me leaving and not having a row

but people do

normal, everyday people in that room batted not an eyelid at such a comment

where do I live ? (as if that has something to do with it...)

this comment was made in a very upmarket and pretty area of Cumbria, when people were relaxing with their families

[frantic51]

Just suggesting that maybe other people in the room who "batted not an eyelid" might have just been sitting there thinking, "knob"? The younger, more impressionable, people were probably not even listening ime!

[AnyFucker]

hopefully they weren't, frantic

I guess that kind of comment can pass over some people's heads

[AnyFucker]

I think this man is the one in ten

not an out-there opinion, I don't think, going off my experience of him

one day I will ask him, then our social relationship will end completely

I predict it, quite soon

I feel sorry for his wife though

[SpeedyGonzalez]

Just remembered something my younger bro told me about the guys on his degree course - they all (except my bro - bless 'im!) expected to go out with women who looked like models, because that's what they see in the media all the time and so they regard a trophy girlfriend as an essential feature of a successful life.

Again, this thread is not about blaming boys. It should be quite clear that it's about blaming society, and trying to bring up boys who step aside from the stuff that's thrown at them.

It's interesting (in an ohhhh gawd, noooo! sort of way) that this sexual objectification is seeping into the way men are represented - Ab&Fitch is one such groanworthy example. Though I don't see it on anywhere near the same scale as for women.

[InmaculadaConcepcion]

Who here is saying "boys are to blame"?

This thread is useful and interesting because it acknowledges the gender inequalities that exist within society which lead to sexism and misogyny. Who mainly benefits from these inequalities? Men. Men who were once little boys.

I don't hate men. Not at all. I'm married to one, for gawd's sake. And he sees sexism and misogyny just as clearly (if not more so) as me. It's all-pervasive. So much so, people don't even realise it exists. It's become second nature.

So to ask how boys can be raised to surmount these attitudes and help fight them is an essential question in the Feminism/Women's Rights section of a parenting website.

Boys do not grow up in a vacuum and the boys that espouse and enact respectful attitudes towards other people have been brought up to value those attitudes despite all the sexist crap that surrounds them. Largely by good parenting, I imagine.

Exploring the best ways of doing this seems like a thoroughly worthwhile exercise IMO.

[Bumfuzzle]

Agree. It is not about blaming boys.

My boys are 10 and 12. How is any of this their fault? They are innocent children growing up in a society that pushes certain messages. They live in that society, they absorb the messages as certainly as they absorb language, or learn how to cross the road. They aren't responsible for it. They're a potential product of it.

They haven't done any of this. They aren't the cause of any of this. 12 years ago, neither of them existed. How could they have any blame at all?

However, as their mother, it is my job to counteract those messages that I feel are damaging and that may lead to them having a view of the world - of women in the case of this discussion - that is wrong.

You can't stop the other messages they get, but you can balance them, you help to give them a different view, you release 2 more men into the world who don't think women are in any way less than equal.

Enough of us do that - imagine the difference we will make!

[PeppaPigHonk]

I have boys and girls. My eldest is a girl and at eleven she is strong, incredibly intelligent , hates pink " girlie" stuff, can ski and ride like a demon and wants to study vet science.
So my boys have her as a role model

Our family is based on absolute mutual respect and women can do anything, which they do in this house! My boys don't know any different and my eldest son is fully aware his sister whips his butt in every sport and most academic stuff so is under no illusions how great girls are!

[woopsidaisy]

I am finding this very interesting,as I have 2 boys,4 and 6. I am constantly worrying about them growing up as sexist knobs!
My DH is great. He spends every free minute from work with his family,he is affectionate and caring. I am a SAHM at the minute,so do most housework,but he is more than happy to do his share too.
But-please don't shout-he says things that infuriate me about women.
If we are playing a game and I lose,it is all "boys are number one". If some one is arsing about when we are driving he will say "must be a woman driver"...
Those kind of stupid remarks. I have spoken to him about this,that the boys are hearing this and taking it in. But he says it is only joking. If he ever hears of any one being horrible to a girl/woman he is down on them like a ton of bricks,but he can't seem to see that this sort of silly sexist crap is the same thing!
How can I make him realise he is being a arse?

[PeppaPigHonk]

I'm quite surprised that only 10% of men have used a prostitute.
Or maybe I just have low opinion of some men considering the latest media injunctions etc ?

[frantic51]

woopsadaisy, lol at the women driver remark. Men can say this as much as they like but you try insuring a car for a young male driver! When DD1 passed her test it cost us £400 a year to insure her to drive the car (a battered old Corsa I just use for local shopping) it's going to cost nearly £2,000 to do the same for my DS! There is male discrimination out there too you know!

[woopsidaisy]

I know frantic51. In fact it is one of DHs major irritations in life that men are portrayed in ads on tv as stupid idiots around the home. It is incredibly sexist I agree.

[MoreBeta]

frantic - it is not discrmination to charge a young male more to insure him to drive. Young males are a far higher risk than young females. It is well known and well backed up by accident statistics.

[AnyF]

yes, I agree

higher charges are made to insure young male drivers because they are a higher risk

simple as

[frantic51]

MoreBeta so they are, but not enough to warrant the currently huge difference in cost. Thankfully, this is finally being addressed. Sadly they are addressing it by raising the insurance for young females rather than lowering it for young males.