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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How do we raise our sons to treat girls and women respectfully...?

81 replies

SpeedyGonzalez · 19/05/2011 00:19

...no matter what they look like, what they're wearing, etc?

This thread is inspired by AnyFucker's thread about how her teen DD wants to dress, but it's about inculcating our sons with an inbuilt respect for women and belief that they are their equals.

OP posts:

Report

MoreBeta · 19/05/2011 20:33

I agree with all the comments above. The attitudes formed at home is where is issue really the place to start. School cannot do everything. The biggest problem though is the influences and pressures teenage boys get from other teenage boys and the media. You can't control those.

The whole sexualisation of society affects teenage boys as badly as girls. Not only do teenage boys see bad attitudes to women in things like pop videos and skewed images of what a female body 'should look like' but the pressure to be 'having sex with your girlfriend' from other teenage boys is intense.

Teenage boys not only need to be given good attitudes towards women but also support to withstand that peer pressure and bullying. Girls can also put pressure on boys as frantic51 suggests.

southeastastra · 19/05/2011 20:38

er my sons are naturally respectful - they just know how to behave

i don't think teenage boys are easily taken in by media stereotypes at all.

InmaculadaConcepcion · 19/05/2011 20:47

I guess encouraging all children not to take everything at face value and to challenge things like stereotypes and preconceived notions: "Why do you think that?" "Why do you suppose s/he did that?" etc. etc. would be helpful.

In a non-hectoring way, of course! Asking children questions I imagine helps them work out their own answers, which is probably more useful in the long-run than trying to spoon-feed them...

basingstoke · 19/05/2011 20:53

I honestly think it's by making sure that the men in their life do exactly that. Family, friends and teachers. I'd like to think I could have more of a direct impact myself, but I'm not sure that's really how it works.

MadameCastafiore · 19/05/2011 20:54

You don't teach them to treat women any different to men - you teach them to respect both sexes - well just other human beings in a respectful way and not be judgemental of anyone until you actually know something about them.

Sometimes I think this feminist bollox is doing itself no favours!

SpeedyGonzalez · 19/05/2011 21:04

But Madame, you're ignoring the fact that women are treated differently by the whole of society - as already evidenced on this thread. Don't you think parents should teach them to recognise that for what it is?

Inmaculada - totally agree. Both girls and boys need to learn how to see through media and marketing messages, AND to recognise how these messages seep into mainstream thinking and behaviour.

OP posts:

southeastastra · 19/05/2011 21:07

so what exactly should i tell my 17 year old son?? it's baloney

maybe parents should look at how they raise their daughters instead? don't let they fall for the beauty bollocks so many do. pink this, princess that

boys just don't really care. and don't mean to be inflamatory but am sort of sick of boys getting the blame for societies ills

MrIC · 19/05/2011 21:08

er my sons are naturally respectful - they just know how to behave

i don't think teenage boys are easily taken in by media stereotypes at all.

you're very fortunate Southeastastra - I was taken in when I was a teenage boy, and pretty much every single teenage boy I've ever come across in my 9 years of youth work and teaching has been too. How else can you explain so many of them wanting to be footballers or rappers?

SpeedyGonzalez · 19/05/2011 21:09

sea - who's blaming? I don't see any blame on this thread. I see a lot of concerned parents wanting to avoid their kids getting into bad patterns of behaviour, but no blame.

OP posts:

suebfg · 19/05/2011 21:10

As per previous posts, it starts at home.

southeastastra · 19/05/2011 21:15

really mric? you must live in an area where that is aspirational

i live in a bog standard working class area and most of ds's mates just want normal careers.

well gonzales this thread is in the feminism section which suggests boys are to blame... though i didn't read the original thread this thread is based on.

so a synopsis would be appreciated.

southeastastra · 19/05/2011 21:15

actually a couple of my sons mates want to join the army which is more worrying than wanting to be rappers!

SpeedyGonzalez · 19/05/2011 21:21

Bumfuzz: "I'm not sure that either of them understand that much at the moment (they both have autism) but I don't want them growing up thinking you can swipe your credit card between a woman's buttocks, or grope her, or that it is normal for a woman to writhe around half naked on you while you treat her like she's nothing. I won't have them growing up thinking of women as 'ho's'."

- that is what my face actually looks like. Are those really images you've seen on pop vids? It's far worse than I thought. In that case it sounds to me like you're doing exactly what I'd do - discuss the vids and then ban the hell out of them from my household.

You know what? I would find it very hard to respect someone who does any of that stuff in a pop vid - either as the male or female agents. I would treat them politely, but I would think they were brainless idiots.

frantic51: "He says he treats girls as he would wish his sisters to be treated. Maybe that has something to do with it?" - I think personalising it in this way is really important. All those degrading/ abusive depictions of women are about objectification, so this sounds like a great antidote. And what a strange girl your son dated. Sounds like he's well shot of her.

OP posts:

SpeedyGonzalez · 19/05/2011 21:22

No, that doesn't suggest that boys are to blame at all, sea. I think you've made the wrong assumption. S'alright, no big deal.

OP posts:

MoreBeta · 19/05/2011 21:30

madame/southeast - I agree with you too. We talk to our boys about respecting everyone. Girls should not be a special category of human being.

However, having been a teenage boy myself I know the kinds of things other teenage boys say and do and no matter how well brought up our DSs are they will come under pressure from a lot of other teenage boys who aren't well brought up.

Our DSs have no idea what a naked female looks like (only age 9 and 11 now) but already they say that people at school are talking about and comparing girls body shapes and have had to talk to them about not judging people on how fat or thin they are. Asking them how they would feel if somone refered to them as the 'ugly fat boy' for example. Media images of supposedly perfect male/female bodies are a huge pressure on teenagers and a group of teenage lads/men comparing and commenting on girls bodies is not a pleasant spectacle.

Agree with you though that boys are not the devil incarnate and responsible for all of society's ills. Many/most are very pleasant people.

southeastastra · 19/05/2011 21:37

boys and girls are very mature now. alot more than we were. there just isn't a boy/girl divide and boys seem to be becoming more worried about their looks that they ever were (which is worrying!)

your sons have no idea what a female boys looks like? i find that sort of weird at their ages to be honest.

southeastastra · 19/05/2011 21:38

female body not boys argh for a edit key

MoreBeta · 19/05/2011 21:52

southeastastra - at age 9 and 11? DS1 is yet to have the very basic sex ed talk at school. He isnt at secondary school yet.

QueenLaQueefer · 19/05/2011 21:53

Great thread.

OP, did the swipe card thing.

My boys are still little, but I never say "that's for girls" etc. I let DS1 dress up as a princess if he wishes.
MIL expressed concern that he enjoyed using a ttoy pushchair until I pointed out his father pushed his buggy far more than I do, and he's certainly not "gay".

I think it's a constant, every day thing. You have to keep on top of it and not let any comment slide.

Watching with interest.

AnyFucker · 19/05/2011 22:01

someone in my social circle who should know better (40+ male) said recently in full hearing of the whole room "you are sitting on a fortune there, if you but knew it" (to an attractive woman)

one of the most offensive comments I have ever heard in my actual earshot

sorry if not relevant, but also in the room there were teenage boys and girls, thinking this sort of attitude is normal

I think he thought it was a compliment

it was not

I had to sympathise with his wife later on in the evening, the poor woman

southeastastra · 19/05/2011 22:06

blimey what circles do you mix with

AnyFucker · 19/05/2011 22:08

normal ones, sea, I assure you

that is why sexist attitudes are so damaging and pervasive

this bloke is a respected family man, raising teenage boys

say no more, eh

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southeastastra · 19/05/2011 22:10

that would be entertaining to contest though wouldn't it? i like a good row

AnyFucker · 19/05/2011 22:12

I dunno

how do you convince someone of the wrongness of that, if they didn't realise in the first place ?

it makes me sad, not amused

AnyFucker · 19/05/2011 22:13

sorry, I don't mean to say that you would find it amusing

I mean that engaging with someone like that, is not how I wish to spend my quality time

I got up and left

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