Non-vegan work, huge dilemma

[WanderingFruitWonderer]

I'm feeling very stressed at the moment. I don't know what the heck to do.
I'm a strict vegan, and passionate about animal rights.
I'm self-employed, with a background in the arts, and usually work from home. However, I lost a lot of work due to the pandemic; and have been doing other bits and pieces of casual work on top, to make ends meet. Last year I worked on a fruit farm for a couple of months, picking strawberries and other things. I have to say I loved it - being outdoors, working hard etc. So I decided to do it again this year. Unfortunately it's not going nearly so well. I discovered the full-time year round workers are basically all fascists! Well, that's an exaggeration, but all much more to the right than me, with terrible attitudes to immigration etc. Then about two weeks ago the farmer used a very racist word, which I won't repeat. I politely explained the word is very offensive, and to be fair he apologized.
But the final straw came yesterday, when he told me that he shoots rabbits and, on occasion, badgers, on the farm, if he thinks they're a threat to his crops. I was aghast.
I've been up half the night feeling upset. I was planning to do work there (not every day) till early August. But feel like such a hypocrite if I do. But, I haven't got much other work lined up till then, and desperately need the income.
Would you leave immediately? Wait till you've found something else? Just stick it out for the next few weeks, knowing you wouldn't return next year? Have you ever done work that clashes with your beliefs?

[Shehasadiamondinthesky]

You are picking fruit. You are not doing anything wrong, carry on. I am a medical professional in the NHS virtually everything we use has at some point been tested on animals. If was to live a 100% vegan life I'd have to live in the wild naked and eschew all civilisation, never take medication or antibiotics. It's not possible to live like that.
We can only do our bit and campaign for a better life. Im 60 and the improvements since the 1980s have been huge but it all takes time.

[Irishfarmer]

@Tubbytenbums through good grass/ silage management we didn't feed anything extra to our cattle in the last two years. DH has put a huge amount of work into optimising grass yield and nutrient value from the silage.

OP, I think this might not be the line of work for you. Which is a pity as you said you really enjoyed the out door work. I wonder are there any other farms around that may be more in line with your thinking? Although there is very little the farmer can do about what the other staff talk about.

[xxcatcatcatxx]

It's even made me wonder if I delude myself somewhat as a vegan

In the words of the School Teacher from Finding Nemo “Don’t hurt yourself kid”

I cry hysterically when I step on a snail on the way to McDonalds for a cheeseburger. Or ignore the fact that baby cows are dying so I can feed my son his formula 😩

The worlds just too overwhelming so just make your choices and live by them as much as you either can or can financially/ mentally afford to xxx

[fyn]

@Artwodeetoo I don’t think it is sneering, I think this thread clearly demonstrates that people don’t know how their food is made. The OP is naive in thinking that animals aren’t being shot every single day for food production. It’s not that occasionally you will come across a product that an animal has had involvement in, it is all food you eat. Nobody really minds if you don’t eat animals, but there has been huge misinformation and naivety on this thread which doesn’t reflect the reality of the food you eat.

My SIL farms 60ac completely organically and vegan. It is very difficult without both animal and chemical inputs. The just farm supports their immediate family. They are privileged to do as it as they don’t otherwise work and are completely supported by my PIL who give them an allowance and pay for all their machinery, equipment etc… The reality of no animal inputs or death isn’t sustainable on a wide scale.

[DPotter]

Strict Vegan issues to one side - wherever you work you could encounter people who are not very nice, have prejudiced opinions and whose practises are not necessary in line with veganism.
So really in many respects Wandering you will need to toughen up for life in the workplace. I'm not condoning this type of behaviour but it is engrained in many -Well done for challenging your boss's use of offensive language

[September29th]

As a vegan, do you use products with palm oil in? I ask because many vegans who are vegan for humane reasons don't consider the animals that are destroyed in that industry, or the people that suffer because of it. Even the so called sensibly resourced stuff isn't what it claims to be.
I include soaps, shampoos and cleaning products, not just food, and it is listed under many names which sound nothing like palm. I also consider coconut oil when looking at ingredients.
Then there is olive oil, grown under netting that catches and kills little birds.
If this is not something you are aware of, then working where you are, in order to live, should not be a concern, currently but I do see (and feel) your point. Sometimes we have to accept that we can't avoid everything that we would like to. I also hate the issues you describe but have to accept some (not all) things cannot be avoided.

[Tubbytenbums]

@Irishfarmer

@Tubbytenbums through good grass/ silage management we didn't feed anything extra to our cattle in the last two years. DH has put a huge amount of work into optimising grass yield and nutrient value from the silage.

OP, I think this might not be the line of work for you. Which is a pity as you said you really enjoyed the out door work. I wonder are there any other farms around that may be more in line with your thinking? Although there is very little the farmer can do about what the other staff talk about.

That is fantastic! However, I live in the NE of Scotland where the grass yields are not enough - our growing season is just too short.

[Artwodeetoo]

@fyn

@Artwodeetoo I don’t think it is sneering, I think this thread clearly demonstrates that people don’t know how their food is made. The OP is naive in thinking that animals aren’t being shot every single day for food production. It’s not that occasionally you will come across a product that an animal has had involvement in, it is all food you eat. Nobody really minds if you don’t eat animals, but there has been huge misinformation and naivety on this thread which doesn’t reflect the reality of the food you eat.

My SIL farms 60ac completely organically and vegan. It is very difficult without both animal and chemical inputs. The just farm supports their immediate family. They are privileged to do as it as they don’t otherwise work and are completely supported by my PIL who give them an allowance and pay for all their machinery, equipment etc… The reality of no animal inputs or death isn’t sustainable on a wide scale.

But this still doesn't make sense, yes sadly this is the case, but ultimately providing demand and funding the meat and dairy industry is causing more direct harm to animals than not. The core principle of veganism is to do as best you can but no one is perfect. Directly buying meat and dairy will always be worse for animals and the environment. And its absolutely vile.

[vitahelp]

I think you may have reached the ceiling point of being vegan. There comes a point where you have taken it as far as you can, and you will end up in situations where your values don't 100% align with what you are doing (like working on this farm for example).
It's similar to eating in a non-vegan restaurant and ordering a vegan dish. The money you pay for it will be going towards paying for future meat dishes served there. Sometimes it is unavoidable. It is slightly different but in my industry I have seen muslim engineers repairing machinery in alcoholic beverage plants.

[fyn]

@Artwodeetoo you are missing the point. Fresh produce and arable farming is intrinsically linked with animal agriculture (and the fishing industry), There is no getting away from it. You are supporting animal agriculture everyday, whatever food you are eating if you haven’t grown it yourself. Therefore being upset and quitting a job because the farmer shots some birds is naive when all food has an animal cost.

If the OP held the same principles in daily life, they’d never visit any National Trust properties for example. We used to carry out employ stalkers to carry out deer culls, trap grey squirrels to protect red and use sheep to graze wildflower meadows as it’s the best way to ensure biodiversity. You are perfectly entitled to eat what you want but calling animal agriculture ‘vile’ is silly because you wouldn’t have any food to eat without it.

[Artwodeetoo]

@fyn

@Artwodeetoo you are missing the point. Fresh produce and arable farming is intrinsically linked with animal agriculture (and the fishing industry), There is no getting away from it. You are supporting animal agriculture everyday, whatever food you are eating if you haven’t grown it yourself. Therefore being upset and quitting a job because the farmer shots some birds is naive when all food has an animal cost.

If the OP held the same principles in daily life, they’d never visit any National Trust properties for example. We used to carry out employ stalkers to carry out deer culls, trap grey squirrels to protect red and use sheep to graze wildflower meadows as it’s the best way to ensure biodiversity. You are perfectly entitled to eat what you want but calling animal agriculture ‘vile’ is silly because you wouldn’t have any food to eat without it.

I'm not saying agriculture is vile, but eating body parts and products is. Also there is a difference between directly funding the meat and dairy industry and animals being harmed unfortunately as part of other practices. Perhaps all of that meat has affected your comprehension

[Intheflicker]

Unless we are very privileged, we all have to capitulate to the system to survive it.

[Groovybic]

If you're uncomfortable then yes leave, if though you feel you have a 'duty' to leave then don't- because veganism is about doing what you can and in this case it sounds like the farmer doesn't use pesticides etc which is great.

[Groovybic]

Funny though every single thread where its mentioned someone pops along to say how eating meat is fine!

[fyn]

@Artwodeetoo there is no need to be rude when having a perfectly normal debate, it doesn’t make your point any more valid. There is nothing wrong with my comprehension. It is okay if you don’t think you are
funding animal agriculture. At the end of the day, you are whether you believe you are or not, part of the cost of your strawberries will be for fertiliser, usually animal, and pest control.

[mosesbass]

@shootme69

Yes, more soya is consumed by livestock but it is the waste product after it's been squeezed for a drop of milk. The same is true of orange juice, brewers grains and a whole range other things. The truth is that livestock is fed on the waste produced by feeding vegans and vegetarians, how green and environmentally friendly.

Not true at all. 95% is grown for sole purpose of feeding livestock

[Narwhalelife]

I have been vegetarian since I was a very small child (parents/ animal rights etc) my DD is also vegetarian (by proxy) because I do all the cooking - although she is 13 now and can’t see life another way.

but before I got my degree I had to work and take any job I could so I worked in KFC (only company I could find that was super flexible with uni & my DD’s childcare) - I was very conflicted but I never ate the food and I HAD to earn money for me and my family. I only did one summer but it was a necessity . Even my veggie parents understood the need for it.

[Zigzagzoozoo]

@Artwodeetoo but I’m not sneering, and the use of that type of language simply allows you to be dismissive of any debate where it doesn’t fit with your view of the world. At no point have I suggested that I disagree with veganism, and I absolutely respect the right of everybody to make whatever dietary choices they want. My issue is with the absolutist view aggressively espoused by some (not all) vegans which suggests that their way is the only way and that no animals/habitats etc are harmed in the production of vegetables/crops/beans/salad/all non meat products because that simply isn’t true. It’s a belief which is, in some ways, very damaging because any monoculture is bad for biodiversity and the environment. If you visit areas in the East of England which are purely arable, it’s heartbreaking. There are no hedges, no birds, no trees, just mile upon mile of the same crops. We are progressively causing more and more damage to the soil from this type of unsustainable farming. If you visit a small, mixed farm in a different area of the country which practices an old fashioned type of crop and livestock rotation, it’s a very different story. The hedgerows are alive, there are hares and deer and many many more birds. I passionately believe that the best way to improve biodiversity and protect the environment is for people to eat less meat but for that meat to be reared more slowly and less intensively in mixed farming systems and, importantly, for people to eat local food that is in season. That is not sneering, it is a belief which is different to yours but which comes from no less worthy aims, which is to live in a world which has a place for nature and where the environment is protected and nurtured for the benefit of everyone. I’m sorry, but from my perspective, radical veganism simply doesn’t do that. There is a lot of misinformation out there, from BOTH sides - I can admit that, can you?

@Tubbytenbums It is 100% definitely possible to rear sheep and cattle from pasture alone. It takes longer and only certain breeds are suited to that type of system but it can be done, and in fact is being done on many farms. Pigs and chickens are different and need artificial inputs.

Anyway, I feel I owe the OP an apology because this popped up on my feed as being in AIBU. Had I realised it was in the vegan section and she was simply looking for support and advice, I would never have commented. I respect everyone’s choices, sometimes I just wish those choices were a little more informed and less frequently used to justify absolutist moral judgements (not that the OP has made any such judgements in this case).

[WanderingFruitWonderer]

Oh wow, so many responses. I look forward to reading through the thread in full.
Sorry, I've been absent since this morning. Been working hard for about 8 hours at the farm in question. I love the actual work (the meditative industry of it) but oh it is hard work, especially in the sun! So I'm just recuperating, and will respond to questions and points later. I'm not working there tomorrow, as doing some other work from home I need to catch up on, so will be in a better position to respond then. Thank you for all the posts...

[Skodacool]

@mosesbass

Excuse me not all tree surgeons but baby birds through a shredder FFS! They're not Evan allowed to touch the trees in nesting season

This. I’m surprised pushingpoppies allowed someone to chop their trees during the nesting season. Can’t have been a genuine tree surgeon.

[WanderingFruitWonderer]

@donquixotedelamancha

It's even made me wonder if I delude myself somewhat as a vegan

Why are you vegan?

If it's to reduce your carbon footprint then I think eating some local meat but avoiding long journey foods is a better balance. You could be vegan and cause just as much CO2 as anyone else.

If it's to avoid harming animals then I really think you need to understand that all farming affects animals, both good and bad. It is naïve if you think we can feed the world without things like culling rabbits, or that letting rabbits breed wouldn't be more harmful.

A carrot 'feels' pain as much as many fish (i.e. both register it but are not sentient). Eating calamari is much more cruel than eating prawns, cod, insects or honey because squid are sentient.

In other words, veganism isn't inherently better than any other choice. You can act according to your values without drawing strict lines or judging others. Accept that nothing you do will be perfect, it doesn't need to be.

I'm vegan for several reasons. Some of my childhood was spent in a west country village, living opposite a dairy farm. The absolute horror of the calves being stolen from their mothers still haunts me. They bellow for days, longing for their young. We always knew when that time had come, as you could hear wails of despair 24/7 for several days.
I've heard that slaughter houses are places of even greater horror 😔
I'm an animal lover. Being vegan is logical.

Secondly, the environment - animal agriculture, especially with the current rate of population growth, is unsustainable. If everyone went vegan, the amount of land needed for agriculture globally, would be reduced by 75%. Water use would be reduced by 50%. Rainforest destruction is related far more to animal agriculture (to grow animal fodder), and obviously methane production from dairy farms is eye-wateringly terrible for the atmosphere.
I'm an environmentalist. So, again, being vegan is logical.

Thirdly, screamishness! I just find the idea of eating flesh and secretions of other mammals a bit gross. That's obviously more a personal taste thing, than the other two reasons.

I must make it clear that I don't judge non-vegans. I don't think I'm morally superior in any way. We're all on a journey, and I haven't always been a vegan. I do feel the world would be a better place if agriculture was largely plant-based, using crop rotation, and resting land after periods of growth and harvest etc

[Toddlerteaplease]

It's a farm. What did you expect!

[gerispringer]

I am vegan , but prefer to say I try to follow a plant based diet, because I know that just existing in the 21st century has an environmental impact, and you can’t avoid animal exploitation in every way. Don’t beat yourself up trying to be perfect. Meat eaters try to justify eating dead animals by pointing out minor imperfections and calling it hypocrisy - “cotton is just as bad as wool” , “ there’s a bit of leather in the train you catch” - that sort of stuff. I’ve had to compromise a bit because of my health but I say I try to minimise animal suffering in my life, I can’t escape from it completely. A good mantra is “ don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good”.

[MonChienEstUneLégende]

@Toddlerteaplease

It's a farm. What did you expect!

@Toddlerteaplease Well maybe for her employer not to use racist language at least. It’s not too much to expect really.

And even though we know farmers kill animals, hearing about in OPs position can still be upsetting to hear when you care about all animals. It’s as upsetting as someone shooting my dog or cat? How would you feel if someone shot your beloved cats?

I’ve seen OP on a few threads and she seems like a really lovely, caring person. Maybe think about that before you are so quick and shitty with your comments.

Hope you’re doing ok OP.

[WanderingFruitWonderer]

"don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good"

oh, that's such a good quote @gerispringer, and very pertinent. Thank you 😊