Non-vegan work, huge dilemma

[WanderingFruitWonderer]

I'm feeling very stressed at the moment. I don't know what the heck to do.
I'm a strict vegan, and passionate about animal rights.
I'm self-employed, with a background in the arts, and usually work from home. However, I lost a lot of work due to the pandemic; and have been doing other bits and pieces of casual work on top, to make ends meet. Last year I worked on a fruit farm for a couple of months, picking strawberries and other things. I have to say I loved it - being outdoors, working hard etc. So I decided to do it again this year. Unfortunately it's not going nearly so well. I discovered the full-time year round workers are basically all fascists! Well, that's an exaggeration, but all much more to the right than me, with terrible attitudes to immigration etc. Then about two weeks ago the farmer used a very racist word, which I won't repeat. I politely explained the word is very offensive, and to be fair he apologized.
But the final straw came yesterday, when he told me that he shoots rabbits and, on occasion, badgers, on the farm, if he thinks they're a threat to his crops. I was aghast.
I've been up half the night feeling upset. I was planning to do work there (not every day) till early August. But feel like such a hypocrite if I do. But, I haven't got much other work lined up till then, and desperately need the income.
Would you leave immediately? Wait till you've found something else? Just stick it out for the next few weeks, knowing you wouldn't return next year? Have you ever done work that clashes with your beliefs?

[WanderingFruitWonderer]

@LiarActressGoTheFuckOut sorry for my delayed response. I only read your post when I was on the way out this morning. Thank you for asking me.
I'm feeling much better about things. All the advice (the helpful stuff!) on this thread actually helped enormously.
I'm seeing it as a progression, and a learning time. I don't feel so guilty, which is the thing that was crippling me before.
I'm vaguely looking for alternative casual work for the same time period, but no joy yet. It ends in a few weeks anyway, and I'm not there every day. It's a bit better now, as so much fruit needing harvesting that the workers are given a variety or section each, so I'm often alone with nature these days, working quietly to the sound of birdsong. I far prefer that. I'm saving insects there, and saved a worm in peril yesterday, who would otherwise have perished in the sun. That made me happy (fellow creature savers will understand!)
I'm still very worried about the badger thing. I tried to talk to the farmer about it, but he was busy, and didn't want to discuss it. He said it was legal, and a rare occurrence. I'll try to discuss it with him again, as it sounds as though, both badgers and sets are protected. In the interim, I made a donation to The Badger Trust the other day.
I think I'm going to put my name down for an allotment, so I'm less agriculture dependent in future. I want to work towards getting my life in such a place that I no longer have to do jobs I don't believe in to survive. I'm learning to make the best of things till then. It's a blooming minefield though! Trying to be ethical. But, I'll keep trying...

[LiarActressGoTheFuckOut]

It doesn’t matter if it was in active threads, it’s still in the vegan section. Most sections appear on active threads if there’s enough posts. You were clearly a vegan posting on the vegan topic. Some people just can’t help themselves saying what did you expect or being vegan is a luxury. Absolute garbage. They should start there own thread if they want to be nasty or talk about veganism in general. They won’t, they just see anything vegan and make some silly, nasty or false comment.

How are you feeling about things now OP? 🌱

[WanderingFruitWonderer]

Ah @maddy68 and@ehb102 I see! No worries. I can see how that happened. Come to think of it, I think someone said something similar earlier in the thread. Anyway, that makes more sense. No need to apologise 😊
I have to say that I definitely wouldn't be so brave, or possibly masochistic, as to post my OP (of this thread) in AIBU!

[ehb102]

@maddy68

It was in active threads

Yes, sorry. It was in active threads. It didn't show the relative board, I thought it was an AITA. Obvious I ATA here.

[maddy68]

@WanderingFruitWonderer

Yes, I've been a bit perplexed by some of the posts I must admit. I wasn't intending at all to start a debate, or I'd have posted in AIBU. I was just expecting responses from fellow vegans, or those sympathetic to veganism, that's why I posted in the vegan topic.
Of course it's an open forum, so anyone can post, but I don't totally understand the motive. C'est la vie.
Lots of lovely, very helpful posts from vegans, and the generally empathetic. I'm so grateful, and it's helped enormously. I slept much better last night, so thank you all. Sorry I haven't replied to them all yet. I've got a bit more time today, so I'll re-read through...

It was in active threads

[WanderingFruitWonderer]

Much talk of soya on this thread. You can see here that vegans are significantly less responsible for rainforest destruction (to grow soya) than most meat eaters and milk drinkers -

www.ethicalconsumer.org/food-drink/soya-sustainable

I once heard George Monbiot suggest that the best way to reduce consumption of soya, is to eat more soya!

[WanderingFruitWonderer]

@SexyBastardSmile

This is the vegan section of mumsnet. Why is it being invaded by farmers and their pals?

Yes, I've been a bit perplexed by some of the posts I must admit. I wasn't intending at all to start a debate, or I'd have posted in AIBU. I was just expecting responses from fellow vegans, or those sympathetic to veganism, that's why I posted in the vegan topic.
Of course it's an open forum, so anyone can post, but I don't totally understand the motive. C'est la vie.
Lots of lovely, very helpful posts from vegans, and the generally empathetic. I'm so grateful, and it's helped enormously. I slept much better last night, so thank you all. Sorry I haven't replied to them all yet. I've got a bit more time today, so I'll re-read through...

[SexyBastardSmile]

This is the vegan section of mumsnet. Why is it being invaded by farmers and their pals?

[derxa]

@Tubbytenbums

That is fantastic! However, I live in the NE of Scotland where the grass yields are not enough - our growing season is just too short.

I've never heard such nonsense
www.thescottishfarmer.co.uk/livestock/livestock_features/15145060.organic-silage-is-best-the-judges-decide/

[Wish44]

It really isn't as simple as saying we need to stop farming animals. Perhaps you should look at soil degradation and the fact that having animals is very important in saving the soil and farming; including of crops.

I live on an arable farm. Thousands of animals and insects are killed here every year to protect the vegetables and wheat, rabbits, mice , rats, moles, jays, magpies etc etc.

Maybe if you saw the the issue is actually very complex you wouldn't have to feel so conflicted.

[WanderingFruitWonderer]

@BlueShoesKate

I would usually scroll by, as I'm not vegan but I'm glad I read this. I have always eaten meat but recently I feel less comfortable in that choice.

You've inspired me to make some changes in my life.

Oh wow @BlueShoesKate I'm so overjoyed to read this 😊
The Mumsnet Vegan topic is here if you need any help or advice!
I'm so happy for you too, as you've got an exciting plant-filled journey ahead - whether you decide to go fully vegan, or initially just cut down on animal foods, it's a great step for animals and the planet.

[BigFatLiar]

However, the thing is, it's always been meat eating that is the luxury choice, once choice was a thing. Meat consumption goes up in a country when it becomes wealthier. A largely plant-based diet is actually more traditional in most parts of the world.

I think the key is in most parts of the world. In some places growing crops is a difficult option and eating meat/fish is the norm and vegetables are the luxury. Growing crops is extremely destructive to the countryside. Remove the farms we have and the country would return slowly to woodland and forest, sadly many of the animals would not return. Much of what we already grow here doesn't belong here even the rabbits the farmer shoots were introduced as food.

All that you can ask is that you are happy with your choice and your life, know that no option is 'does no harm' option, just minimise what harm you do.

[BlueShoesKate]

I would usually scroll by, as I'm not vegan but I'm glad I read this. I have always eaten meat but recently I feel less comfortable in that choice.

You've inspired me to make some changes in my life.

[WanderingFruitWonderer]

@mosesbass

You sound like a lovely human being OP. Carry on as you are with love in your heart

Oh my goodness, what a kind and uplifting thing to say.
Thank you so much. You sound very lovely too 😊

[mosesbass]

You sound like a lovely human being OP. Carry on as you are with love in your heart

[CoffeeAndTV1]

Yes, I agree with that last post op.

[WanderingFruitWonderer]

Thank you Coffee. Yes, I know what you mean. Humans do seem to be an especially greedy species, but yes, you're right that the world is such that maybe no living being can be totally benign, through no fault of their own...

[WanderingFruitWonderer]

@kikisparks

Remember the definition of veganism is to avoid animal exploitation as far as possible and practicable. Using phones, using medicine, working in a job- there are certain things that are just requirements for living in society and we don’t live in a vegan world. You’re not actually harming or killing anyone yourself so I don’t think you should feel any guilt for your job.

Thank you for this. Yes, I sometimes forget the first part.
I'm extremely guilt prone, and spend ages trying to figure out the morality of stuff.
I think part of the problem too is that I'm terrible at compartmentalising. I integrate everything! So, an upsetting new bit of knowledge will infiltrate other (supposedly unrelated) things I'm doing, and I end up feeling incredibly guilty about something I'm actually not responsible for. I realise my OP must seem nuts to more psychologically robust people.
It's not even really a job; just a bit of casual seasonal work on top, to get me by whilst I'm rebuilding my main living, post-pandemic.
I've actually wondered if, when it ends in a few weeks (assuming I don't find anything to replace it before then) I could donate a portion of the income I received to The Vegan Society?

[CoffeeAndTV1]

. It isn't unique to humans that we inflict harm on animals...simply by existing I mean. Obviously rabbits don't shoot field mice if they eat their carrots!

[CoffeeAndTV1]

If it helps, I think all mammals are involved in the same battle for resources and eat each other or each other's food. It isn't unique to humans that we inflict harm on animals.

You have a right to be alive as much as animals do (according to me anyway)!

The system will never be harmless though, and that is sad. But doing the best you possibly can, including being vegan, is great imo

[WanderingFruitWonderer]

Thank you @CoffeeAndTV1. Yes, you're right. In a way that's what I was meaning to articulate when I said I wondered if I was deluding myself as a vegan. I actually regret saying that, as it could have been misunderstood as me suggesting there's no point. But not at all! I still think it's generally the least harmful choice. I just meant that I delude myself if I think it's perfection. The way the world is set up, it seems to be literally impossible for anyone to be totally harmless. Try as we might. Of course, I've always known that deep down, but it was suddenly horrifyingly glaring for a while. I think honestly that I may just not be suited to the world! Or to the societal system. I get so overwhelmed by it all...

[WanderingFruitWonderer]

@Daisy62 thank you for your post. Yes, funnily enough, I was reading about vegan permaculture and sustainable food production models etc this morning. I guess all life experiences help us evolve, and learn, and Know more about the kind of things we want to pour our energy into in the future...

[CoffeeAndTV1]

@kikisparks

Remember the definition of veganism is to avoid animal exploitation as far as possible and practicable. Using phones, using medicine, working in a job- there are certain things that are just requirements for living in society and we don’t live in a vegan world. You’re not actually harming or killing anyone yourself so I don’t think you should feel any guilt for your job.

Yes, I think this too

It is highly unlikely that you are doing "no harm" by choosing vegan. You are doing significantly less harm and that's better than most people! If you went to work on...I dunno... construction site or in a school, you would be complicit in harming animals. Construction destroys animal habitats and probably crushes a lot of them inadvertently. In schools, restaurants, shops etc, they use non vegan friendly pest control.

You need to earn a living. As long as he isn't expecting you to shoot anything, I'd stick with it 💐

Bottom line is that you cannot live without harming another animal, even if it's because you eat food they might have been able to eat and they go hungry. So I wouldn't get too worked up about this. Very kind that you are though

[WanderingFruitWonderer]

@Shehasadiamondinthesky

You are picking fruit. You are not doing anything wrong, carry on. I am a medical professional in the NHS virtually everything we use has at some point been tested on animals. If was to live a 100% vegan life I'd have to live in the wild naked and eschew all civilisation, never take medication or antibiotics. It's not possible to live like that.
We can only do our bit and campaign for a better life. Im 60 and the improvements since the 1980s have been huge but it all takes time.

Thank you. This is helpful

[WanderingFruitWonderer]

@ehb102

This is why veganism is a luxury belief. If the pests, both furred and feathered, weren't controlled - and by that I mean killed - there wouldn't be enough food for humans.

Having a significant choice of what to eat is indeed a modern and western luxury. Until recently, and still in many parts of the world, people had no choice but to eat whatever was available. However, the thing is, it's always been meat eating that is the luxury choice, once choice was a thing. Meat consumption goes up in a country when it becomes wealthier. A largely plant-based diet is actually more traditional in most parts of the world...