Is tutoring for 3+ 4+ 5+ 7+ now the norm?

[mumteacher]

In my previous support thread there is alot of discuss about this and also if tutoring is now required once the child has gained a place so that they can keep the place.

What are your thoughts and rcperirnces?

lesmisfan horsemadmum knock yourselves out!

[Mummyoftheyear]

Interesting point. However, many parents and nannies of children I've worked with weren't aware that cutting, among other things, might be a useful skill to practise and develop at home. Such activities, introduced during a tutoring session, can then be worked on with a suitable adult at home and touched on (and extended, as appropriate) each week, during a tuition session. Likewise , other skills may be introduced and then practised at home (handwriting grasp, writing name, letter sounds, numbers / counting, telling a story from pictures, weighing scales, etc.).

[Mummyoftheyear]

Developmental milestones: delayed achievement of DMs is (obviously not always) be associated with specific learning difficulties such as dyslexia, dyspraxia, etc. A school asking about these is likely to be trying to eliminate or identify those children who would be likely to either:
A) need additional support in the future/ classroom.
B) who may, at some point, struggle to keep up with their peers - in a particularly academic environment.

[Mummyoftheyear]

Delete 'be'. ;)

[NomDeClavier]

mummyoftheyear it very much depends on the nanny as to whether they will know about assessments and prepare a child accordingly. I used to and picked up a fair bit of extra work on Saturdays just spending an hour with my charges' friends who had SAHM just introducing these skills and guiding them. It's also interesting to see how children react to an outsider asking them to do activities rather than a parent. Even more interesting when it's a complete stranger.

[Mummyoftheyear]

Of course! Many parents, nannies, etc. are confident and capable of doing so themselves :)

[horsemadmom]

I really have to laugh about the school who asks for milestones (I know which one it is, BTW). DD1 wouldn't have stood a chance as she didn't take a step until she was 17 months while DD2 hit every milestone early- guess which one is dyslexic!

[Mummyoftheyear]

Horsemadam, NLCS?

[horsemadmom]

No!!!!

[PhoenixUprising]

HorseMadam - how early did DD2 walk? Before 10 months?

Hitting physical milestones early as just as much a red flag for dyslexia / dyspraxia etc as hitting them late.

Walking before 10 months or walking after 14 months raises red flags to schools that don't want to take children with dyslexia or dyspraxia.

But it's 100% taboo to admit it.

[ReallyTired]

I have never considered sending my children to private school, yet alone a selective school at four. I think that a school selecting children on the basis of developmental mile stones is bizarre. It seems a little harsh that an otherwise bright child with tallipes (club foot) might be rejected and questionable legally. It would be interesting to know if black children walk earlier on average than white or asian children.

I am sure that a skilled adult can make a difference to a four year old. My son saw an occupational therapist on the NHS at five year old. I am sure that similar activites could improve the fine motor skills of a three year old. However am sceptical that a tutor has the same level of skill/ training and an OT.

I think the money would be better spent on something fun like gymnastics.

[irregularegular]

Mumteacher - I know it is not your fault, but your posts just go to show how wrong the system is: "A parent will have feedback from one child as to what was asked in the assessments. A good tutor will get feedback from all her/ his students. Multiply that by the number of years the tutor has been teaching and it adds up to a lot more insight.

It is not a 'mistaken belief' on my part as a tutor that I know more about the assessment process and the activities that are going to come up. I do know"

So, what is being assessed is not whether the child will be a good fit for the school, but whether the parent has employed a tutor to get inside information into the assessment process. Or gained that valuable information some other way.

This is wrong in so many ways. First, it's just unfair. Second, it means the wrong children are being selected as the whole process is distorted by who gets tutored. Third, it's actually a waste of people's time to teach to the test like this, rather than getting a well rounded childhood.

Why can't schools just produce a detailed guide to the assessments and stop tutors being able to exploit the gaps in information.

Or better still, stop the ridiculous idea of assessing 4 yr olds at all.

[horsemadmom]

Pheonix Rising- All those indicators for dyslexia/dyspraxia must be taken with a bucket load of salt. For the record-
DS- Walked at 10 months, first words 9 months, full sentences 17 months- not dyslexic or dyspraxic (just lazy)
DD1- Walked at 17 months, first words 6 months, full sentences 13 months- not dyslexic or dyspraxic
DD2- Walked at 12 months (on her birthday!), first words 9 months, full sentences 16 months- dyslexic
I agree that the process can be distorted by tutoring to some extent (see previous threads where I've made my views quite clear) but my biggest objection is that it plays on the insecurities of parents to a horrible degree. At 4+, there is nothing a tutor can do that a good nursery won't do. The schools can see through it and may ask your child if they see - fill in the blank for popular tutors' names. If your decision to tutor isn't rumbled, do you really want to risk your child being miserable at the wrong school?
My best 4+ advice is the following:
Choose a good nursery with a track record of getting DCs into your target schools.
Talk to, read to and do puzzles with your DC.
Do not leave your DC in the care of anyone whose English isn't fluent- language acquisition is really fast at this stage and an adult with limited vocabulary will do your child no favours.
7+ advice:
Tutor only if moving from state primary to selective private or just do Bond books under timed conditions. There will be a big difference in the level of expectation between the sectors at this point. If you tutor a child already at pre-prep, you risk being caught out and it will count against your child. No school wants to buy a pig in a poke. It may also be reflected in the recommendation from your pre-prep head. You are just one fee paying family but a head will protect their reputation with feeder schools over your dishonesty.

[Goldie14]

I am guessing private schools or selective schools are only for those who are naturally very bright and have higher IQ?

[horsemadmom]

For selective private and state grammars-Well, duh!

[Huitre]

The circle thing sounds crazy. DD couldn't have done it in a month of Sundays. And she had plenty of practice with scissors. But here we are at the start of Y2 and she is working comfortably within level 3 so presumably just the kind of child a selective might be expected to be interested in.

[horsemadmom]

DD1 is a summer baby and wouldn't have been able to cut a circle at age 3 1/2 either. Don't think that any one element of what may or may not be on the assessment rules your child out. It doesn't.

[Huitre]

Well, it's a moot point for us anyway as I don't plan to send my child to a private school at the moment. I was just pointing out that it seems like a weird kind of thing to predict future attainment on!

[teta]

Goldie,private schools round our way claim to be selective-but I don't believe they actually are(disclaimer- we are in a semi rural location with no grammar schools around).

[Tabya876]

I have been reading posts on this subject for some time and would like to add my own thoughts to the debate if I might:

I have 2 nieces that attend North London Collegiate School. They both attended "evening classes" to supplement the learning they received at a nearby state school. One has always been exceptionally bright but her parents felt she needed additional stimulation to reach her potential. She entered NLCS at 11 on an academic scholarship and is proving to be an exceptional student there academically as she was in her state school. Her sister was regarded as bright and entered in the sixth form. She struggled for a couple of months as the level subjects are taught at surprised her but she knuckled down and is now in the top half of the cohort for each of her subjects. The most important points are that they are happy and doing well so everyone is happy so all is well for them.

I have a friend with kids at both Habs girls and boys. Both attended a an exceptional 'feeder' local prep school and the parents spent quality time teaching their children in all manners of ways. Conversation, holidays, reading, socialising. Both are enjoying school and placed midway within their cohorts. Again all is working out for them so their decisions were best for them.

My 4 year old daughter attended a state nursery after we removed her from a bog standard prep school in Milton Keynes for about 8 months and started to regress. She learned little or nothing in the state nursery but she was happy. We spent quality time at home conversing, practising writing, etc. We are fortunately blessed with a daughter that loves learning and questions everything and asks to practise her writing on many occasions. Anyway, we wanted her to be in an academic school that would challenge her adequately so that she would not be frustrated. We entered her into assessment at Guildford High Junior School without focussing on prepping anything we thought she would be tested on. That was our choice. We never even told her she was being assessed. Her happiness is the most important thing for us and that was what was best for her. She got in and is doing very well indeed and loving every moment in the school, which incidentally is exceptionally good. We are also happy about the choices we made on her behalf. Some have described it as a hot-house school. I have come to realise though, that it is described as such by by those whose children failed to get in there or those that failed to thrive there.

In my view, as parents we should want what is best for our children to be happy, thrive and reach their potential and should make judgements on what is best for them based on an honest personal view of who they are, their abilities, personality, what makes them happy and what they can be.

If you honestly think that they have huge potential and would thrive in a selectively academic and challenging environment, then help get them into one. No one gets prizes for trying and failing to get their child into a good school without the required support. It is a competitive world and there are many many children of high potential. If you want yours to do well relatively, spend time supporting them or find someone to do it for you if you cannot or do not want to do it yourself. Support can be provided in the form of parental time, a good prep school or tutoring. If we love our children and want what is best for them not us, we will be honest about them and do all we can to make sure they are happy and do well.

Please note that I am expressing my personal views to provide avenues for debate and not criticising anyone who has alternative views or looking for an argument.

[Golfsucks]

DS has just received offers from Kings, CC and WUS at 7+. We did not have a tutor for him but I, myself, did sit him down regularly (45 mins a day, 5-6 days a week for about a year before the exams) to do practice papers (Bond, Scofield & Simms, recommended comprehension books) and timed story writing. I think if your child is happy to sit down with you and you are aware of what is required in these exams, then a tutor is of limited value. However, if your child works better with someone else or if you need guidance for what is needed to navigate these exams successfully, then a good tutor would be the way to go. A half-way house perhaps is to have an hour or so with a tutor each week/fortnight which, by itself, would probably have little impact but, combined with more regular sessions with the parent being guided by tailored feedback from the tutor to the parent, may make a difference.

[meenarun]

Hi
Does any one know of the assessment procedures for 4+ in a selective school. Are they asked to write anything?

[mumteacher]

Meenarun there is a lot more info re 4+ on the other 3+ 4+ 5+ threads x

[chiaseed]

Golfsucks, I know it's been 10 months since you posted but I would like to know if your DS do an hour of Bond or Schofield & Sims every day in addition to his school work? Did your DS attend a pre-prep or a state primary school? Before the 7+ exam, did you have him working on 8-9 year papers or 9-10 papers? My DS will sit the 7+ exam in 2016 for the same schools that your applied to. Thanks.

[TrojanWhore]

As this is a zombie thread, it might be worth PM-ink the individual poster, or trying in the current thread about 4+ 5+ 7+ madness (someone started a subsequent second thread, but this is the first, longer, and more active one)

[Greenfizzywater]

chiaseed if you're after general chat and reassurance go to the thread in the post above, specific advice can be found on the current 3+4+5+ etc support thread or by PMing the poster with the username mumteacher