Governors observing lessons

[Mumsymumphy]

What is union guidance on governor visits?

We had governors come into a lesson last term to get 'a feel' of the school - approx 20 mins, all very informal but we did get written feedback.

This term they are coming into lessons for a full hour.

I've googled 'governor guidance' but it's sketchy.

[HelloYouTwo]

It’s the job of qualified teachers to do learning walks and observations and to look at what’s working and what isn’t. It’s your job to accept their assessments. And no, that doesn’t mean you are simply accepting what the head is telling you, because it’s not the just head that’s telling you it. It’s professional teachers, and the default shouldn’t be not to trust them.

At no point would I as a governor carry out a learning walk or an observation. I might accompany the HT or SLT as they do a learning walk, in order to see for myself the things I’ve been shown on paper are being done in the classroom and not to burden the teachers with a succession of visitors calling into their classrooms.

You don’t usually get the teachers coming to governing body meetings (though I’m sure they’d be thrilled to spend another hour or two in the school of an evening), so we cannot just accept what the HT tells us. That isn’t holding someone to account.

That’s why you go into the school, on a pre arranged and agreed basis, so that the professional teachers can show you what they are doing. And sometimes they tell you that actually what the HT has waxed lyrical about just isn’t working, or they can demonstrate why some groups are doing better than others and why (context is key and not always transmitted by sheets of data).

Seeing the lifeblood of a school- the pupils and the teachers - also enables you to connect with and champion the school, which is a damn sight better than sitting in the ivory tower with the SLT looking at data but having no clue about the pressures the teachers are under, or never seeing a lesson and appreciating what’s actually being done, what’s possible and what’s not.

But governors should never judge teaching or provide feedback on teaching. It should always be linked to looking for examples of what the HT / SLT has told you they are doing to improve outcomes. And if sometimes you get roped into listening to someone read, or can ask a pupil what they like about school, or hear them tell you that they used to find maths hard but they are enjoying it more since they got extra help or whatever then that’s just an awesome added bonus.

[TheFallenMadonna]

So what do you say? I know teaching is good because I have observed lessons and...? Without yourself judging the quality of teaching...?

[Weetabixandshreddies]

I don't agree that we should get access to reports on learning walks actually. We had teachers in capability - we never knew who they were nor what subject and that's right.

And I think your view of governors is very obvious. It isn't perfect by any means but what would you rather? Voluntary governors can be truly independent. They can ask difficult questions because their jobs don't depend on them toeing the line. I wonder how independent executive boards will prove to be?

[noblegiraffe]

I don't agree that we should get access to reports on learning walks actually.

Eh? In my school feedback from learning walks are shared with the whole school/department. They obviously don’t single out individual teachers, but they do highlight good practice and areas for improvement.

If your school doesn’t do this, then FGS do this.

[TheFallenMadonna]

My experience of governors has been pretty positive, as I think I've made clear. But then, I haven't worked with governors who want to do hour long lesson observations and provide individual feedback as the OP's governors are planning.

[Weetabixandshreddies]

HelloYouTwo

Exactly.

TheFallenMadonna

It wouldn't be "...because I have observed lessons..." being in school, seeing what is going on, seeing staff and students, looking at books all of that provides a context to the data that you are given.

If a governor has actually written an report on a lesson then they need to be spoken to by CoG and their role should be explained to them.

[flapjackfairy]

Just to be clear learning walks are always accompanied by a departmental head or slt. We don't bumble into school and attempt to do it on our own ! That would be madness. I am not a teacher. I am not qualified to judge a teacher as already said but we are asked to attend and give our opinion on the overall atmosphere of the school, behaviour etc and so we do that because it is part of our role as governors.
It isn't exactly a barrel of laughs being a parent gov tbh. I do it because I want to contribute something to the school my children attend ( actually a sn school for children with v complex physical, medical and learning needs ) and yes sometimes my perspective is useful ( so I am told ).
It is demoralizing to read a threadwhich seems to be so resentful of our contribution which involves a fair amount of time and commitment for zero pay !

[TheFallenMadonna]

Or book scrutinies, not just to see the "climate", but to check that the marking policy has "done what we wanted it to do", as you have done. I'm not keen even on teachers from other specialism judging learning from books (and I hope that what you wanted the marking policy to do was related to learning). I wouldn't want a governor making that kind of judgement.

[TheFallenMadonna]

Sorry, that was to Weetabixandshreddies.

[noblegiraffe]

No problem at all with governors visiting the school, being escorted around by a teacher and popping into lessons to get a snapshot of what’s going on.

I’ve never had a governor spend more than a few minutes in my lesson. It’d be a bit of a waste of their time.

[TheFallenMadonna]

If governors are there to provide scrutiny and challenge, then it is to the Head, not the rest of the staff. If a teacher is feeling under scrutiny owing to their actions, then they need to consider why this should be. Either they are acting inappropriately, or the culture in the school is making staff wary of any scrutiny, and again, this is something that needs to be brought up with the Head. This thread started with a teacher, with no axe to grind with governors, feeling under pressure following a written up observation and anticipating another one next term. If you are not doing that, and your staff don't feel like that, you are not like that governing body.

[Weetabixandshreddies]

TheFallenMadonna

Actually, I think governors could judge marking policy and specific aims. One criticism by ofsted was that students weren't being given feedback and that students had no way of commenting and that quality of marking wasn't consistent. So SLT designed a sticker to be used by teachers that followed a set format. The only part that governors played was to look at had the stickers been used, were all parts filled in, including by the students. Any judgements on the quality of the marking or feedback was entirely down to SLT and HoD. We weren't even interested in what teachers had or hadn't used them. It was simply monitoring whether the policy was being administered by the head, and in turn SLT.

[Weetabixandshreddies]

noblegiraffe

Which I think is what we are trying to describe, apart from the governor in the OP.

[Mishappening]

I am a governor and understand what a difficult line it is to walk. On the one hand OfSted would drop on us from a great height if we could not demonstrate that we have some evidence for what we are being told in meetings (and a poor governor assessment can cause a school to be downgraded on OfSted categories); but I am also aware that my background is not in education and the visit should in know way be seen as an assessment - but rather as an observation visit.

I always make it clear exactly what it is I am hoping to observe (e.g. how TAs are used to help SEND pupils) so that the teachers can show me the appropriate things.

I do find it hard to get the balance right - but it is a small school and the staff all know me and the other governors and I expect that this helps a bit.

I have been involved in two OfSted inspections and believe me the governors get a real grilling - and it is very hard for us non-teachers. We have no choice but to get involved in visits. We just tr4y and do our best.

[Mishappening]

Just to explain further - we have to justify how the budget is spent too; so having an idea of what the outcomes of the expenditure look like is very important.

Also the positive side of it all is that I hope we do provide support to the staff, listening to their concerns so that these too can influence our decisions at meetings.

[ArmchairTraveller]

It may feel demoralising, flapjackfairy. But governors who misunderstand their role and step outside acceptable parameters add yet another level of scrutiny to the work of class teachers.
Which makes them feel demoralised and micromanaged. Despite all the extras they do for no extra pay.
So how can governors present themselves as assets and useful resources to class teachers, to transform an unsatisfactory relationship?

[evilkitten]

I've been a governor for 15 years, and have done a number of lesson observations during that time. None of them have been to comment on the teaching; I am not a teacher, and wouldn't know what I was looking for. Lesson observations need to be carried out by teachers.

What I was looking for was the impact of school policy. To provide some examples:

• we implemented a new behaviour policy. I sat in class to see this in action, see some of the collateral around it (e.g. behaviour chart on the wall), and to talk to the teacher about her views after the lesson.

• we bought some new iPads. The HT was a bit vague about how they were going to be used, so I arranged a visit with the IT subject lead to observe how they were used in practice. This identified some issues with storage and charging, which we were then able to solve.

• We implemented a new maths teaching method. THe decsription of what was being done was a bit dry, so I sat in a lesson to find out what a 'hinge question' actually was in practice.

The classroom visits are invaluable in seeing the school in action, and provide an opportunity to meet staff and be a bit more visible. They also play well with OFSTED - if they ask a question and you can answer with 'yes, I know about that because I've actually seen the results of the implementation', then you're in a better position than 'I think it's working, or at least that's what the head said'. I've had HT's who don't necessarily tell the whole truth, and been burnt by OFSTED as a result.

[Mishappening]

"in know way"!! - sorry! - obviously badly educated!

[Mumsymumphy]

Sorry, I think I worded the title incorrectly - governors are not doing observations in the sense of lesson obs by SLT.

@TheFallenMadonna You hit the nail on the head with 'or the culture of the school is making the staff wary of any scrutiny.'


The governors do provide written feedback but there is no judgement (as in a grading), just general comments on what they have seen and with regards to the specific focus they have been given.

Their next visit is for the full hour. We haven't even been told what their focus is - just which subject lesson they will be coming in for.

This term we have had Ofsted, numerous observations & unannounced drop-ins (head walks in, stands at back for x minutes and walks out again), collectively as a staff we are just fed up of it all, could understand it if we were RI.

[Mishappening]

I have such sympathy with the irritation at the micromanagement and constant scrutiny. The problem is that OfSted demands it, and we know what sort of downward spiral a bad OfSted can create for a school.

It is wrong that the governor does not provide a focus for the visit with the teacher fully aware of what they are looking for and why.

Teachers have to be aware that governors have no choice but to do these visits; and governors need to be aware of hoe this creates an extra level of stress for the teachers.

The OfSted puppet-master is pulling the strings and neither party should cave in to this and let them drive a wedge beteween staff and governors.

[HelloYouTwo]

OP, I think you have every right to feel this way about the scrutiny. It is discourteous at the least and unprofessional at worst for a governor to expect to sit in your lessons for an hour and not explicitly request this, agree the focus with you, talk to you about what they are looking for. And the length of time seems insane. I think you would be justified in pushing back on this whether direct or via SLT to ask for more detail on the purpose of the “observation”.

As a non teacher I have had to adjust my own empathy on how much teachers seem to hate having adults in their classroom. As a managerial-type professional I am used to working in open plan offices, justifying decisions to colleagues, bosses, clients, presenting to clients with senior colleagues present etc. It’s easy to forget that the way in which teachers work is very different and to not understand that when you run your own space / classroom having visitors is disruptive and sometimes offputting, especially if you feel your every word and move is being judged.

[TheFallenMadonna]

I think teachers probably have the same response to "it's for Ofsted" as a reason for doing so something when they hear it from governors as they do when they hear it from Heads.

[PerspicaciaTick]

The NGA advise governors on how best to handle monitoring visits.
www.nga.org.uk/Guidance/Holding-your-school-to-account/Monitoring-Performance/School-visits-for-those-govenring.aspx

[Mummyshark2018]

Hi Op,
I totally get why you would be annoyed by this. I'm an elected parent governor and professionally work in education. As others have said I see my role as a critical friend. I am fairly new to the role and have not done any obs, but my skills lend to a more strategic role (e.g. SEND and safeguarding) so obs has not been necessary yet. Other governors have other roles e.g. literacy or maths which so require obs or meeting with specific leads. in my experience we are all there for the same reason - to improve the school. I absolutely believe my child's school does fantastic things, given it's massive challenges (send, traveller communities, LAC, Eal etc).!Never do we 'blame' individual teachers but mostly try to encourage with a strengths based approach e.g. what are we/they doing well and try to encourage more widely.
Also I get that teachers have a high level of scrutiny (i used to be one), but lots of other professions have just as much, perhaps less formally though e.g. meeting clients, delivering training etc.

[sighrollseyes]

I'm a governor and I do school visits which includes classroom visits but it's not to pick holes in the teaching it's to ensure the higher level strategy in the school is working as it should be - ie do you have the right resources, do you have any concerns that the governing body can help with. It's always in a positive connotation not negative.