Muslims like us

[Lucydogz]

I really thought they'd be a thread on this! Here goes- I thought it was good, and am sorry that they're only one more. SO many interesting issues.

[Lucydogz]

I didn't see that at all. In the 1st episode I thought he was great, but he really couldn't listen to anyone else, especially women, just like Abdul. he just shouted them down.

[TeaAddict235]

I agree soupdragon, Nabil shouldn't have shut the English convert lady down, that was unfair. But I kind of understand why he wasn't pleased or impressed with the pacifying of the EDL guy: the Syrian guy was mistaken for being Caucasian and treated lightly almost kindly, which I imagine Nabil can never experience from such a bigot. He mentioned later that being black and a Muslim is a double whammy of hatred for people, and someone from the EDL would feast off such a revelation. The Syrian guy however, as one of my White American uni peers once remarked, could technically come from anywhere in the world and will be immediately liked because of his white male privilege (which I definitely experienced the rough hand of when in Morocco).

Also, I felt sympathetic to Nabil when he said that there is extreme racism in Islam, and that his wife has been called a Nigger Lover. I thought that that alone said a lot about what he and his family have to endure; they have to fight on all sides, race, religion, probably gender for his wife, and I felt that the others in the house ganged up on him because of that and because of his size; like 'he can take it, he's a big black man' attitude.

[SoupDragon]

He wouldn't let "white convert lady" finish what she was saying though. It was rude and aggressive to keep interrupting her and preventing her from finishing what she was saying.

I don't think she, being white, should be arguing about his experiences of racism but we won't ever know what she was trying to say as he just shut her down.

[woodhill]

I get that but he was unpleasant to the Syrian man as well. I know it was to do with the EDL but the Syrian felt he had been building bridges.

[TeaAddict235]

woodhill I don't think that the English covert lady could relate to him and his experiences of being an African Muslim male. I wouldn't call that a difference of perspective but a difference of experience.

[woodhill]

Nabil was fine until someone else had a different perspective.

[TeaAddict235]

Mead way "how many Christians talk about Christianity".

Loads I say !! It's always a topic of discussion.

^^ yes to this! I know so many Christians who only talk about Christianity when they meet. Every topic comes back to Christianity and the bible, it can be draining sometimes.

[TeaAddict235]

Nabil was really warm and very easy to get along with for the Syrian chap?. But I thought that the Scottish guy overreacted when it was commented that he wasn't brought up well, that slander is so old school and he behaved like a drama queen. I disliked the way that the "blond" lady threw herself into every argument and had the audacity to call Nabil aggressive! And she knew the racial undertones that she was using against Nabil: an angry assertive large black man! Bingo! I really disliked her when I saw her goading him and then discussing with the Scottish guy about there being a divide in the house. She saw herself as some "rebellious " Islamic character with her dyed hair and revealing clothes distinctly attempting to challenge Islam with her lifestyle, 'oh I'm really laid back'. But in actual fact she clearly had a problem with Nabil and also Abdul huq when he no longer voiced his radical views.

Arrg, so many things to say, but kids nipping at my ankles!!

[cushioncovers]

Was disappointed with it tbh lots of squabbling and stroppy behaviour with no real insight to anything.

[ReallyTired]

I was shocked by the Abdul lack of tolerance toward Shia Muslims. I got the impression that a lot of the men had no idea how to hold a conversation. They tended to talk over people especially the women.

It was interesting that the elderly white British woman had never experienced islamophobia. I suppose the fact that she is a convert means she understand the unwritten rules of British society. Maybe what the others are experiencing as "islamophobia" is racism or perhaps a consequence of not understanding cultural norms.

I thought the Muslims who picked a fight with the non Muslim over what it means to British were petty. Green fields outside York are part of the uk landscape. The Muslims who would not go to the war memorial were pathetic. I have to admit would have been more interesting if they had been taken to Clifford's tower and asked to remember the 150 Jews who were murdered there in the 12th century. I am sure that Abdul would have come up with some shitty excuse why those poor Jews deserved to die.

[MeadowHay]

I agree that Abdul Haqq is dangerous, but I also think he's very vulnerable and clearly been brainwashed. I agree with pp I am confident he was radicalised whilst serving time in prison, his attitudes/behaviour strongly reflect that. Maybe his experience with the others will have some positive impact on him though.

As to PP saying if they were in the house they would be talking about how they all practice Islam differently etc all the time, I find that strange because as a Muslim, you know lots of other Muslims, so you already know about loads of different ways people practice Islam etc. It's not really an interesting topic for me as a Muslim at all because I've seen basically every shade of it already! I imagine it would be similar for people of a different faith if they know lots of people of that faith who will all practice differently. So I think if the programme wanted to focus more on religious stuff it needed to be directed by the producers with specific activities to prompt the group to talk about those things and I don't find people naturally just talk about religion all the time. I certainly don't talk about religion all the time with the other Muslims I know or my Muslim family lol.

[Bumbleclat]

I thought the tolerance, patience and time the muslims gave to understanding Abdul was very admirable, I'd have been packing my bags not before alerting Prevent. HE. IS. TERRIFYING.

[Bumbleclat]

Why did they choose that linen clad toff to show them around. I'm white British and feel NOTHING about churches... this doesn't indicate that Im an extremist who doesn't integrate it just means that dusty old buildings don't do it for me.
The toff that responded to the city girl's comment that she would be more at home with KFC wrappers on the pavement was an ignorant fool and very unkind, narrow minded and alien from the average British person.

No one at the school I work in can define British values and we have to promote them as teachers. I thought it was all about inclusion, democracy and tolerance.

[woodhill]

It was embarrassing when they were being given the tour and kept bickering.

[Macarena1990]

Abdul Haq seriously needs locking up. He is typical of those converted in prison and is a danger to society.

[Tomorrowillbeachicken]

As a Christian myself I think you would definitely get as many differences even between different COE christians, or even from church to church, as you would from this group of muslims to be fair. Even more if you add in other denominations of Christians too. I'd like to see that to be honest.

As for the programme it was interesting for sure.

[SoupDragon]

I liked the fact that the religious side was almost a sideline. It ran alongside ordinary life and the housemates became people who happened to be Muslim if that makes sense. I wonder if that was part of the aim really. So much of what is shown of muslims on television is negative and this can be a person's only experience of them.

Some of how we have seen the people will be down purely to the editors. I wonder if Abdul was really as bad as he came across because he seemed to be having fun with the others when you saw him I never the background. Clearly he is very very extreme and possibly dangerous but I wonder how much normal behaviour ended up on the editing room floor.

I was stunned at Nabil's behaviour in yesterday's episode. He was a bully and kept shutting people down.

[NotCitrus]

I too thought it was like Big Brother, but the first series when BB really was a bunch of random people and seeing how they got on, and I think that was a good thing. There's a limit to how much subtle understanding you're going to get across in such a programme, and I think it did well at showing a varied bunch of people who disagree on lots of things important to each of them.
And who argue over who bought an onion just like any other bunch of housemates.

[notgivingin789]

Mead way "how many Christians talk about Christianity".

Loads I say !! It's always a topic of discussion. **

[derxa]

t was very Big Brother. Lots of rows over food and dramatic storming off Yes I didn't want to say this but it's true.

[IndianaJone]

Name the women I know, including the one I mentioned earlier, wear the niqab through their own choice and also for faith. Some even wear it only sometimes and other times go with just the headcovering - the hijab. I guess muslims are like any other groups of people - varied in personality, faith, opinions.

There is no way even a programme like this can show us all the different types of people who belong within the group. So many different cultural mixes too within it - languages, traditions, experiences. It's like if there was a programme made on what Christians as people are like. I feel that it couldn't possibly show us anything tangible as such except give us the idea that Christians as a group had as many differences as they did similarities. It is however good in that people are saying it is thought provoking and interesting and opening their eyes. But I find myself asking why it is people find so interesting. It's almost like this programme has lent some humanity to this group. How were they viewed before this programme? As Power said I too feel like this programme is trying to give the group some humanity ie hey, they're just like us when sadly that should be our starting point anyway.

[crystalgall]

Yeh I guess. But the programme is called Muslims like us!

Isn't part of the agenda for them to focus on that? If I was in that house I would genuinely be interested in how other practice the faith esp knowing that's the premise of the programme. I felt like inhardly knew half of them. 2 eps really not enough I suppose.

[MeadowHay]

Yes but I think that was a fault on behalf of the editors and also the realities of life. If you make 10 strangers live together all of a sudden, there are always going to be random petty scraps about communal living! There was no need for a good 5 minutes of the show to be devoted to an argument about a stolen onion ! That was bad editing/producing of the show.

And in terms of what they talked about and things though, without discussion being led by the producers, it's also obvious that the vast majority of the time they wouldn't talking about anything to do with their religion. They're just 10 normal people (well...maybe not Abdul Haqq lol). Muslims don't tend to just sit around and talk about religion all the time with other Muslims lol I certainly don't! So to artificially stimulate discussion that would have to be done by the producers with specific activities because it's not just going to appear naturally. I mean how many Christians only talk about Christianity when they meet up?? Not many I'd imagine.

[crystalgall]

Also surprised by the lack of interest in the show on here given how a Muslim thread usually explodes on MN.

[crystalgall]

It was very Big Brother. Lots of rows over food and dramatic storming off.

Very little discussion about Islam or even about what their daily lives are like as Muslims. I was interested to see what each person would say about how they feel they practise Islam/what makes them Muslim or Islamic.

There was only one maybe two shots today of anyone praying or reading the Quran.

Disclaimer. I didn't see yesterday's show so don't know if that came up.

I was embarrassed for them when the Non-Muslims were forced to endure their petty scraps.