Jonathan Strange anticipation thread

[lucysnowe]

Thought I would start one as have just watched the full trailer here. Am so very exciting now!! Anyone else??

[PolkadotsAndMoonbeams]

Lascelles is tall and redheaded, if that jogs your memory Trills.

[Thurlow]

I think they haven't explained who he is, 2rebecca, because no one actually knows who he is. He's an unknown (and not very nice) faery.

[lucysnowe]

I think it will become a bit clearer later 2rebecca (annoying I know!) Cote, I think they have mentioned the Raven King quite a lot but I agree the effect is different - in the footnotes it's more insidious and real, makes you think it is an actual part of English history. I hope we get to see the tapestry at the King's house.

[OnlyLovers]

I've only watched two, and haven't read the book, so I'm skimming this thread to avoid spoilers.

I'm struggling to care about any of it at the moment. Maybe I'd care more if the background were filled in the way it seems to be in the book?

I'm not quite getting whether Mr Norrell is a 'goodie' or 'baddie' (I know that's simplistic and I don't mean it quite so simply). Does he like Jonathan Strange? Resent him for being on his turf? Does he want to be feted, or left to get on with his magic on his own?

I find the Gentleman with Thistledown Hair puzzling too. What's his motivation? Is he evil? Meddling? What has he to do with the Raven King? (maybe not anything).

I am loving Samuel West though, and Strange's wife. So watchable.

And Childermass is hot stuff.

[CoteDAzur]

There is no goodie or baddie. This is not Harry Potter

[OnlyLovers]

All right, Cote. I did acknowledge that I was being slightly simplistic and facetious. It was a genuine question though; I am not 'getting' what his motivations might be and wondered if anyone had any insights, but clearly all you have is condescending remarks.

And I haven't read or seen Harry Potter, so your condescending remark goes right over my head anyway.

[MrsRSharpe]

Does he like Jonathan Strange? Resent him for being on his turf? Does he want to be feted, or left to get on with his magic on his own?

All of the above. Norrell wants to be known as the greatest magician of his age and the man who brought magic back to England - but he also wants to sit alone in his library reading his books in peace. He both loves Strange as a fellow magician and a pupil, and is terrified of Strange becoming a better magician than he is.

Ideally, Mr Norrell would like to sit in his library at home with Strange and quietly do some lovely magic together and receive the odd letter and newspaper cutting calling them the saviours of English magic.

[OnlyLovers]

Thank you MrsR. Is it just me, or is that not really coming across in the programme that well?

They don't seem to share much screen time, and mostly Norrell seems to receive news of Jonathan Strange and be a bit annoyed by it.

Maybe it all becomes clearer as time goes on. Or maybe I'm just not getting it.

[MrsRSharpe]

I'm loving this adaptation because I am a huge fan of the book. It's one of the best adaptations I have ever seen. It's obvious that the writers, producers and director/s are all huge fans of the book. They have pretty much just put the book on screen.

However I think the downfall of that is that they are skipping a lot of explanation that people who haven't read the book need!

[OnlyLovers]

I get that impression, yes (about the skipping, I mean).

I'm not quite appreciating why everyone keeps going on about there having been 'no magic in England for three hundred years!' I don't know why that's so important.

I find it odd, too, that Strange seems to be able to pop on over to the Napoleonic wars as though there was an easyJet flight.

[CoteDAzur]

Only - I don't know how you saw condescension in that one-liner light-hearted post that ended in a smiley, but I spent the day on the beach and really can't get riled up now. Whatever was your problem last night, I hope you are having a better evening tonight.

All characters in JS & Mr N have different personalities and their complex motivations for the stuff they do. N is arguably somewhere on the autistic spectrum and has no sense of humour ("Mr Norrell knew there were such things as jokes in the world or people would not write about them in books, but had never actually been introduced to a joke or shaken its hand"). Childermass is worldly and efficient (Childermass knew the world. Childermass knew what games the children on street corners are playing - games that all other grown-ups have long since forgotten. Childermass knew what old people by firesides are thinking of, though no one has asked them in years... And all that Childermass knew made him smile; and some of what he knew made him laugh out loud; and none of what he knew wrung from him so much as ha'pennyworth of pity.").

JS wants to learn magic but has no books to learn from, as Mr N has jealously accumulated them all. He has no choice but to be N's apprentice, although they have very different personalities and opinions on the place of magic in the world. N wants JS around mainly because he has no one else to talk magic to and JS is sticking around because there is no one else he can learn magic from.

Gentleman With Thistle-Down Hair is a faery and the ruler of the Faerie kingdom of Lost Hope. He is fickle, quick to anger, and unwilling or unable to understand people's real feelings (of despair, for the most part). He was summoned by N to bring Emma back after she died and now conspires not only to keep her in his castle all night every night, but also to make Stephen Black the King of England.

JS and N lock horns on the subject of Raven King - JS thinks RK is the best magician ever & a man to be admired and followed, while N believes he is a traitor to the King of England and a troublemaker. Raven King has no part in the chain of events that make up the story, but he is a very important character in JS & Mr N. His story is told entirely in footnotes, through anecdotes, historical citations, quotes from books, and the occasional poem like this "well-known ballad" (about how Raven King used to abduct beautiful people to live in his castle in the Other Lands):

The Raven King

Not long, not long my father said
Not long shall you be ours
The Raven King knows all too well
Which are the fairest flowers

The priest was all too worldly
Though he prayed and rang his bell
The Raven King three candles lit
The priest said it was well

Her arms were all too feeble
Though she claimed to love me so
The Raven King stretched out his hand
She sighed and let me go

This land is all too shallow
It is painted on the sky
And trembles like the wind-shook rain
When the Raven King goes by

For always and for always
I pray remember me
Upon the moors, beneath the stars
With the King’s wild company

[Igneococcus]

It has been bothering me since the show started who the Gentleman and Lost Hope remind me off and this morning it finally hit me, the guy who ran the Glendale Toy Museum on Skye
It closed in 2012 and we went there just a few weeks before it closed on a grey and dreary day. It was in a Victorian villa with bow windows which seemed completely out of place in that bleak wilderness. It was stuffed to the ceiling with toys and for the most time we were there it was only the four of us and the owner. Many times when we looked at something the owner had quietly come up behind us, making us jump, and started telling us stories about that particular toy, or showed the children some sleight of hand that could be performed with an item. When we drove away, dp and I both turned around to check if the house was still there and we didn't have some weird dream, the entire visit had that sort of otherworldly quality to it. We are both scientists and not prone to being woo usually.
The owner wasn't scary, more like the Gentleman's nicer cousin with very similar mannerisms. It's a pity it's gone.

[lucysnowe]

Ha that is funny Igneococcus! There are people out there with faerie blood I think.

I've just been browsing the tag on tumblr, there is lots of good stuff there. I like this one :)

[MrsRSharpe]

Oh Childermass. Grouchy sassy unexpectedly-attractive northerner of my heart. Everyone loves Childermass, and then some

See, the more I read the book the more I loved Childermass.

And now I've seen him on screen and....

[timeforabrewnow]

Have just caught up with the first 2 episodes on i-player and haven't read this thread through as I read the book ages ago and loved it and didn't want any spoilers.

However, just had to add on here that I love, love love the adaptation to TV - what a fantastic job they've done!!!

[can you tell that I quite liked it ]

[AlmaMartyr]

MrsRSharpe - my love for Childermass grew through the book as well, and I can understand people thinking he might be Clarke's hero. He is lovely on screen :)

I'm loving the adaptation, wasn't sure if I would or not. It's made me reread the book again (4th time ) because I can't wait for each new episode. I was really unconvinced about Bertie Carvel before I watched it, but am pretty sold now.

DH read and loved the book too, but some years ago now and has completely forgotten all of it but is also really enjoying the show.

[MrsRSharpe]

That was me above (on a n/c) Without spoiling it for anyone who hasn't read it, I think you want other people to be heroic, or to be the goodie, but when it comes to the end and you look at everyone's actions throughout, Childermass sort of emerges as someone who has reliably tried to do the right thing and stuck to his beliefs and his convictions.

[CoogerAndDark]

I'm about halfway through the book and it's still clanging like a badly cast bell in places. It's no Crimson Petal, that's for sure.

As I'm curious and I think the series actually fills in a lot of the characters I'll carry on.

[bigmouthstrikesagain]

I have finished the book and enjoyed the second half more than the first as it took time to get properly immersed in the world and the writing style - so it is worth persevering in my opinion.

I am now really looking forward to seeing the story unfold on the TV version.

The emphasis you are putting on the Raven King Cote is slightly odd to me - he is important as a symbol and influence on events in the book - drawn from existing folk lore about fairies, changelings, medieval Kings and Queens, the author has adapted and included existing Fairy tale characters, references to Merlin and even biblical tales. So if you have an understanding of English folk lore even just half remembered from childhood it will all seem familiar. But in the TV version - they don't have the luxury of being able to break from the action (unless they want to include lengthy 'sexposition' scenes as in GoT where Strange tells tales of the Raven King while in bed with Arabella!!?? ) - which would break the flow of the narrative.

The story needs to be streamlined and make sense in the context of TV version without the aid of footnotes - and I think they have done a marvellous job with that. If you read the book the story is enriched by the footnotes etc. But you can equally enjoy and understand the story as it plays out on screen without needing a crib sheet to refer to - but maybe that is my experience as a lifelong reader of Magical realism - Angela Carter, Mervyn Peake and Mary Shelley are all on my top favourite authors list. So I have read plenty of books that adapt and play with folklore and fairy tales.

[bigmouthstrikesagain]

And yes Childermass - is the most interesting character in the book and the most complex.

[lucysnowe]

I like that this version is highlighting how subversive the novel is, which I didn't notice quite so much when reading (not aware enough probably, and have to get through the thorny hedges of the pastiche!). When you get down to it the real heroes are those who have been silenced - by the story, by society, by the narrator, by the magicians, and by the Gentleman. It would be quite a different tale if for eg it was told first person by Childermass or Emma Wintertowne, and can you imagine Stephen's whole story? I like Childermass but actually I think Stephen is the real hero. :)

[bigmouthstrikesagain]

Definitely Lucy

[CoteDAzur]

"I'm about halfway through the book and it's still clanging like a badly cast bell in places. It's no Crimson Petal, that's for sure."

Thank God for that. I couldn't stand Crimson Petal & The White.

[CoogerAndDark]

At least it didn't have a half hearted 'shewed' shoved in every third paragraph to give it a patina of authenticity. There's very little depth to it. Good basis for a script, so it's got that in common with Harry Potter.

[CoteDAzur]

"The emphasis you are putting on the Raven King Cote is slightly odd to me"

Well, he is one of the major characters in the book. His story is told not only in the Footnotes section (7% of the book) but also in the last third of the story. The book has three volumes:

Volume I: Mr Norrell
Volume II: Jonathan Strange
Volume III: John Uskglass (Raven King)

It is the author who has put the emphasis on the Raven King, not me. Even put his Raven-in-flight on the cover of the book.

"But in the TV version - they don't have the luxury of being able to break from the action"

They could have done it in a variety of ways: JS reading those stories about Raven King in Mr N's books, stories being told from one magician to another, in flashbacks (filmed in sepia?) etc.