Damian Lewis fans line up for Wolf Hall tonight

[Travelledtheworld]

Wednesday 21st January BBC2 Channel 4

lush costumes.

www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/11358197/Damian-Lewiss-inspiration-for-Wolf-Halls-Henry-VIII-Wills-and-Harry.html

[squoosh]

Pryce was brilliant as Wolsey too. Felt so sorry for him being stripped of all his power and booted out for Miss Boleyn. He looked so vulnerable.

[JustCallMeDory]

yy to Rylance's stillness - and you could seen the phenomenal intelligence at work behind it. Perfect.

Wednesday is now the new Friday in our house.

[funnyossity]

Yes Dory. How does he do that? I agree he was good despite physically being all wrong imo.

[AnneofCheese]

The sweating sickness was the Plague, essentially, whoever asked that. But what it was is not clear - some very contagious virus it's thought, which circulated through Europe over and over again for hundreds of years, and then just disappeared. Or so the book I read told me!

They kept in Wolsey's tapestry!

I thought Anne striking a pose before speaking was deliberate, rather than clumsy acting. She is playing at being Queen but slightly unsure how to do it, yet.

Damien Lewis has that mixture of menace and pettiness that Henry had I think. Looking forward to more.

There wasn't a massive amount of explanation of Richard or Rafe in the book either I don't think. I had to google them. Hilary Mantel doesn't spoon feed the history in her books, she assumes you are with her and gallops off (although she does have handy family trees in Wolf Hall).

Ooh, I could talk about this all day but should be working (And need to find tickets to see Mark Rylance in something!)

[funnyossity]

Yes the tapestry was there but just reminded me how much more you get from a book!

[hairygodmother]

I think we are supposed to dislike Anne Boleyn though, she's very unflatteringly portrayed in the book too. And that whole 'Cremuel' business was in the book too, wasn't it? Was nicely done I thought, I agree that she's supposed to be stilted, I think that works because we dislike her!

I got incredibly distracted quite early on by the music, which is the only thing that wasn't right. All the lovely period sets and costumes and then the music was so incongruous. Why? Seemed so unnecessary and easily avoidable.

Agree with MuddhaofSuburbia about how vivid the books were in their descriptions, quite hard to shake the images you have in your head and replace them with what's on screen.

But in general it seems to be going ok, Mark Rylance is superb. Very watchful which works well. But a little slow-moving to start with, as you say AnneofCheese, the books do rollick along and you just go with it.

Haven't got over the death of his wife and girls though, awful awful awful. But very well done.

[ohmymimi]

Squoosh - I thought that short scene between H8 and TC was so clever as it revealed important (and often underplayed) elements of his character- honesty, bravery and independent thought.

[Nancy66]

Damian lewis was interviewed on something recently and said that he's really not in it very much at all. Shame but true to the book I guess.

[BlueChampagne]

Found it odd that Anne couldn't pronounce Cromwell but seemed to have no other trace of a French accent. Thought that was all to do with her spending so long at the French court.

Even DH - a historian - got drawn in. Though he did disappear off to consult with Mssrs Elton and Unstead afterwards!

[squoosh]

I think her use of French phrases and her 'Cremuel' pronunciation were affectations rather than an inability to pronounce his name correctly.

[hairygodmother]

Yes, she does it on purpose in order to make him uncomfortable, given that she perceives him to be the 'enemy' as it were. I certainly seem to remember that that was how it was portrayed in the books. She was just being petty.

[AliceinWinterWonderland]

I have to agree with the poster that said the modern phrases were jarring. It just kept stopping the flow of the story for me....

[squoosh]

ohmymimi bravery is right! I get the impression that being in Henry's presence must have been like being in a cage with a tame lion. He might take to you, then again he might devour you whole!

[MuddhaOfSuburbia]

I'm not convinced by the Mantel take on Cromwell and More, but I do like different perspectives on the historical figures that fascinate me.

me neither/too

though I think an awful lot of HM's appeal is the revisionism/iconoclasm/sheer bloody mindedness, whatever

I really like Thomas More, from previous portrayals- A Man For All Seasons, the Ackroyd biog. He's my all time favourite religious zealot . I read his portrayal in WH with my gob wiiide open- but I really enjoyed it. Same with her Robespierre in Place of Greater Safety-she draws him really sympathetically as nearly boyfriend material

this is what makes Mantell such a good read, imo. That said I'll get the right hump if her Thomas More becomes the current idea of Thomas More, from this show

[hairygodmother]

"my all time favourite religious zealot"

Heh heh. That sounds like a BuzzFeed list that needs writing. The top ten religious zealots of all time.

[Darnitnev]

Loved it. Has made me want to re-read the boom again.

DH made me pause half way through to give me a personal private lecture educational chat regarding the sweating sickness. Now I know all about antigen shift vs drift which is absolutely what you want to be pondering upon whilst watching a historical drama. He said it was most likely to be an influenzae type virus similar to the Spanish flu that killed so many and so quickly after WW1.

[ageingdisgracefully]

I need to see it again, I think. I missed a lot of the details. I got a bit distracted by Yosser Hughes, and couldn't get the timeline right in my head. Still not getting Ann Boleyn and the 'Cremuel' reference. How come, if she was brought up in France, she speaks with an English accent? Missed the Joanne Whalley scene somehow too. Hope there's more of her.

Really enjoyed the scene where Cromwell is reliving his beating by his father. Very like the book, and Moxey from Auf Wiedersehen Pet is great as the father.

Still not really getting DL though; bit typecast as Soames Forsyte for me.

[MuddhaOfSuburbia]

lol Buzzfeed

am a bit of people being instructed on historical/medical points by their DPs

mine was reading about Leeds on Yorkshire Post online

[AnneofCheese]

In the books she mangles his name on purpose 'Cremuel' to show how little he is worth remembering. I don't know what her accent would have been in 'real life' but in the book, most of the conversation they had was in French.

The 'except you won't' - straight from the book. HM purposely didn't write the dialogue in a cod olde English way and some sounds quite modern.

(can you tell I'm re-reading? )

[AmeliaPeabody]

I liked it very much. A pleasant slow start.
I did find some of the speech jarring, though it didn't seem to jar while reading the same quite so much. Did anybody notice how dark it was in places, though?

[HolyTerror]

Anne Boleyn is described in the novels as having spent most of her life at the French court, and coming back to England with the latest French headdress fashions and 'speaking her native accent with a light, unplaceable accent' - and also that her inability to pronounce Cromwell is an affectation. I wasn't sure about that performance, though...

I liked Bernard Hill as Norfolk, even though my husband kept booming 'THE COURTESY OF YOUR HALL IS SADLY LESSENED OF LATE, THEODEN KING!'

Rylance and Pryce are both excellent actors, but I did still find myself thinking they were physically miscast - Rylance did so much acting with a tiny flicker of expression, and his watchfulness was absolutely right, but you were afraid for him when Norfolk prodded him in the chest because he looks like a fragile, scholarly figure, whereas he needs to look physically threatening and ex-soldier-y, even next to a beefy earl. A touch of the Ray Winstone's needed! (And maybe it will change, but I think the stillness and watchfulness was overdone - he's also a man of action, successful, decisive, manipulative, able to persuade and bully people to act as he wants.)

And Wolsey's massive girth is so much apart of his generosity and greedy love of pleasure in the novels...

I know the adaptation was massively rushed for time, but I was sorry time hadn't been found for that scene where Wolsey reaches out affectionately for Cromwell in the early days of their relationship, and Cromwell bolts back against the wall, unconsciously a child again expecting to be hit. It says so much about their kind-of father-son relationship.

And I thought space should have been found (ten seconds!) following on from the bit were Wolsey describes how beautiful the young Queen Katherine was, and Cromwell interjects 'God forgive you!' for Wolsey to refer to his own son and daughter and his own weakness of the flesh.

But I loved the natural lighting in the night scenes.

Is Jehane going to be in the adaptation, I wonder? Presumably played by the same actress who played Liz?

[AmeliaPeabody]

"But I loved the natural lighting in the night scenes."

That's what I was talking about. Nice, but could barely discern anything! Similar criticism in the newspaper today.

[HolyTerror]

Did we really miss anything crucial in those scenes, though? The darkest scenes from what I remember were Cromwell and Liz lying in bed talking, the dinner at Cromwell's Italian merchant friend's house (Bonavisi?) where we only really needed to see Cromwell and Thomas More (who were comparatively well-lit, as was Chapuys) and when Italian Friend walked Cromwell in and out through the garden - and the scene where Wolsey, Cromwell and the household arrive at Esher.

It seemed to me that the director had thought carefully about what scenes could be staged at night without losing nuance/facial expressions etc. If something like Cromwell's encounter with Anne Boleyn over the York Place inventories had been played by candlelight, I agree we would have missed a lot.

[awaynboilyurheid]

Bit disappointed really, was so looking forward to this, love DL as the king plays it very well and Cardinal Wolsey too but Cromwell was for me very disappointing. Too gently played for me, I thought they were all meant to be scared by him and he is described as a stocky man felt he turned into a wimp in the this . Agree also its too dark and before anyone says anything yes I know it's to give it a period flavour but if we can't see it's not much good.

[squoosh]

But they wouldn't have been scared of Cromwell at this stage, he's yet to become a major player. I'm sure we'll see more shade and shade from him by the end of the six episodes.