DH slapped DD last night - point of no return?

[cornishblue]

DD (12.5) has been difficult latelyd and yesterday it all came to a shouty head with her being unbelievably rude and stroppy. DH flipped and slapped her.

He didn't apolgise - was unrepentant at least last night - and snapped at me for telling him he'd crossed a line and I couldn't support that kind of parenting.

He was calmer this morning but didn't see DD and won't now until tomorrow after school.

I hope to God he hasn't done irreparable damage to her self-esteem and their relationship. What can I do? They are as stubborn as each other.

[Adair]

Agree with Faust.

I made my dad so, so angry when I was a pre-teen. He pushed me in front of a car, threw me down the stairs, shouted me into my room and kicking the door. He is the gentlest man you ever saw. And so this was 'only occasionally' and 'you did know how to wind him up' according to my mum - I agree to some point. BUT really, adult/child. It is yes, understandable but WRONG. It needs an apology.

And btw I was lashing out because I was being sexually abused. Of course, teenagers act up in general. But just to throw that in the mix.

[AnyFucker]

ignore, ignore, ignore

faust...do you have a teenager ?

[FaustWithAFlipChart]

AF, do you ask every woman who objects to domestic violence whether she has a girlfriend and has experienced how annoying they are?

[AnyFucker]

adair, that is your experience and I'm sorry you went through it

but I think we are on a different page here

not one person has said stroppy teenagers deserve to get a slap, as far as I can see

just that, it happens, it should be a wake-up call for all concerned, but not necessarily the end of the line for parent/child relationships

[salvolatile]

Totally agree with Pag...I grew up in a house where people were always screaming at each other and our family now is exactly like Pags; we set the ground rules very early on, I guess, because I am blessed with DCs that treat all adults with respect, and even their siblings most of the time . TBH Cornish, I think the clue is in what you keep saying your responses have been ("willing to talk and negotiate') - it sounds wonderful in theory, but what you are describing is a teenager who has tried these tactics of stropping, whining, sob tactics, escalation in the past and they've worked. What you see as negotiation she has probably interpreted as weakness. Teens need clear boundaries, like toddlers. They don't need their parents to be friends, they need them to be parents. In your shoes I would have precise consequences for precise actions, as simple as that. When she works out that you are consistent in what you say she will have to work out another way of responding to you....

[Adair]

Yes, AnyF, I agree with everything you have said. For me, certainly, it was not my dad losing it that affected me but how they ignored it dealt with it afterwards. Think a chat with all saying 'look, this is ridiculous. I'm sorry I shouldn't have done that, ad you shouldn't have said that, and how did we get to this point' is all that is needed. 12 year olds should not be given the pressure of being entirely responsible for other people's behaviour.

None of us are perfect but things should not be swept under the carpet (as the OP's dh seems to want to do).

[Adair]

(Would def agree that I use the same strategies on my toddlers that I use teaching very naughty teenagers. Of course, parenting is different from teaching, but Pag and Salvo I find your posts v reassuring )

[cornishblue]

salvolatile - but if I'm not willing to listen to her don't we return to the notion of escalation being her only option?

I'm not naturally authoritative and I wasn't a nightmare teen so I am utterly rubbish at all this.

[AnyFucker]

perhaps we won't agree, faust and that is ok of course

I too object to domestic violence, hence contributing to this thread with my experiences...are you suggesting that I condone it ?

for the record, I haven't hit my teenage dd and neither has my DH...if that were to happen I would be shocked to my very core and ashamed at my lack of self control

but I wouldn't think it ruined my relationship with her for the rest of our lives

and that is what this thread was about...whether you can get past it

and I say you can

what do you advocate faust...reporting this man to the police?

[AnyFucker]

yes adair, I think this man wants to sweep it under the carpet too

that is not on,,,and Op obvioulsy agrees

[cornishblue]

Adair... DH is now refusing to talk to her so your post makes me sad because I can see him ruining his relationship with her for the coming years. Not to mention leaving me to deal with all her tantrums alone.

[AnyFucker]

cb...if your DH carries on in this vein, he is showing no more maturity than his teenage dd

and that is bloody rubbish

it backs up adair's comment...the aftermath of such an incident is often very telling

tell your husband to grow up and be a man, ffs

[cornishblue]

I know AF

Will keep trying to make him see what he's doing - but sometimes it's as if he's giving up on her.

[Adair]

Ok...
Your dh is scared. He sees a little girl becoming a totally independent woman. He can't control her and he is scared about it. He is also completely defensive and feels shit about the fact he lost control like that.

SO

He needs some reassurance
-this is NORMAL, part of growing up and becoming independent

He needs strategies to feel back in control of the situation - if not dd. These (ideally) you would come up with together. No-one has all the answers - my mum used to get 'how to cope with your wayward teenager' books out of the library...
can you approach it - gosh, she's really testing us! What shall WE do about it?
Come up with some ideas together. THen go back to the slap and try to get HIM to say 'er, no, not my finest moment' (as someone earlier said - though I love the idea of you flicking toast at your dd's head )

I agree with listening and negotiation for teenagers but as others have said, it needs to be appropriate - yes, I will listen to you when you stop shouting at me (not going to give parenting advice for teenagers, as I don't have any!)

[AnyFucker]

good advice adair

and I will say again..this man needs a kick up the arse and to grow some balls

show him this thread, OP

[Adair]

in reassurance should be also
-it wasn't great to lose it, but it's not the End of Everything
-dd is still his little girl

That's all, going to bed now. Hope your dh is able to reflect a little. Best wishes.

[GetOrfMoiLand]

Poor you OP. Your husband not speaking to your dd will so make things worse.

I think it's a really good idea to show him this thread. Some cracking advice on here, esp from AnyF (as per usual ) and Adair.

[salvolatile]

Cornish...firstly, I really hope things have improved a bit. To answer your question, listening is great when she is explaining why she wants to do something/go somewhere/behaved badly at school etc etc, but she has to listen to you if you have a different point of view, and in the final analysis, she needs to accept your word/decision or sanction. THAT's when it seems she starts to whine and strop to get you to change your mind, renegotiate terms, give in or in some other way get what she wants, and THAT's when negotiations should be over. Your DH's slap, outrageous as that seems, is what happens when parents want to say 'enough is enough...the answer is no' or words to that effect, and instead it boils over into a slap. I wouldn't presume to go so far as to say this situation is caused by inconsistent parenting but its one possibility. To respect you both she HAS to respect your views. For her to be sure that you respect her, you need to show that you respect her views too, but if they clash with your views as parents then your views may overrule hers. It's not too late for her to learn this . Also wanted to say that DD1 (now almost 15) was hell on wheels at the same age but calmed down just as other girls hit the terrible teens. Weird, but hormonal upheavals show long before periods start. Just a thought.

[cornishblue]

DH still not talking much, neither to DD nor to me about DD, but last night I said pretty much what you all suggested so at least it's out there and he call mull it over.

Inconsistent parenting - possible, simply because this whole situation is new, so things we would have agreed to/let go only a short while ago when she was still reasonable and pleasant are now not OK because we have to watch her like hawks. But I feel better prepared for dealing with it now.

Thank you Adair, AF, GetOrf, Salvolatile, Pag and others for your experience, insights and much great advice

[AnyFucker]

no problem