DH slapped DD last night - point of no return?

[cornishblue]

DD (12.5) has been difficult latelyd and yesterday it all came to a shouty head with her being unbelievably rude and stroppy. DH flipped and slapped her.

He didn't apolgise - was unrepentant at least last night - and snapped at me for telling him he'd crossed a line and I couldn't support that kind of parenting.

He was calmer this morning but didn't see DD and won't now until tomorrow after school.

I hope to God he hasn't done irreparable damage to her self-esteem and their relationship. What can I do? They are as stubborn as each other.

[Northernlurker]

Of course he hasn't damaged her self esteem with one slap when she's being vile. I have a nearly 12 year old and she can be awful sometimes - and very lovely sometimes. In our house if anybody would be the one to snap and slap it will be me. I would apologise but I would also expect dh to back me to the hilt. She won't be vile for ever (I hope) In the meantime I am being very clear with her that her behaviour doesn't just anger me, I'm upset by her lack of respect and grumpiness. Being a big softie she hates hearing that far more than listening to me rant. I don't intend to slap her and I hope I never do but we all have our tolerance tested and can only take so much.

[ajandjjmum]

pagwatch
Have you got a dd?
Much as you love them, they can be vile creatures.
In my experience, very different to ds.

[GetOrfMoiLand]

Cornish - sorry I did not mean for my post to come across as so harsh - apologies.

It is very difficlut. DD (14) can be stroppy at times - sometimes I just feel like yelling at her, however she just needs to be reminded of what is approproate behaviour sometimes.

Her behaviour can be perfect for ages and then she has a spurt of being the moodiest teenager in christendom. So I do feel for you, it is very difficult.

Does there seem to be a rush of bad behavour at home coinciding with bad behaviour at school?

A good idea would be to sit down and have a hreat to heart chat with her. And also be firm and state 'this is how you will behave, if you do this there will be consequence x.

There is a very fine line between being understanding and sympathetic and being taken for a ride.

[GetOrfMoiLand]

And I am not perfect, I remember very clearly frisbeeing a slice of toast at dd's head when she stalked off muttering about 6 months back. Not my finest hour.

[cornishblue]

I'm not sure when he slapped her, but I agree a cheek is worse than on a thigh or arm. I will ask him later.

It's all blown up since Christmas really. Copying her new friends (a couple of which are the class bad girls) at her new school. Plus the hormonal hell of a huge growth spurt and agonising over her looks etc.

[pagwatch]

Do a 'debrief' thingy with her.
Tell her that if she wishes you both to take her POV seriously then she needs to learn to control herself and behave in a sensible way. Tell her the rules are that if she becomes rude then negotiations/discussions will stop and whatever was being looked at will be decided upon without her imput.

We have always made DS1 understand that we really really weigh his opinion and try and accomodate any reasonable requests he has. But as soon as he gets sulky or rude my stock response is

"well you clearly can't cope with a sensible conversation on this so I am not sure we can apply much weight to your views. Go away and calm down and when you are ready to be reasonable we will talk again"

She does need to understand that with increasing age comes the benefit of increased freedom but that carries a responsibility to conduct h erself in a reasonable way.

TBH. I would be cross with him but I would also be cross with her.
He may be shrugging you off because he feels frustrated and a bit ashamed.
I would let things cool. talk to her first then go back to him.
If you focus the talks on how to stop it getting so heated again that may be more productive than going over what happened, as awful as it was for you.

[ajandjjmum]

How was your aim?

[ajandjjmum]

Ooops - that was to GetOrf

[pagwatch]

yes I have a DD too.

I don't tolerate any answering back from her either.

I was also a teenager my self, have three older sister, three god daughters and 11 nieces.
It doesn't change how I deal with rudeness.

[ajandjjmum]

Rudeness is one thing, continual grief is so wearing. I'm beginning to put it down to the moon!

[GetOrfMoiLand]

Toast hit the door frame.

Was never a good shot.

DD looked at me though for losing my cool.

To be honest as much as I felt I failed I think it was a good lesson for dd to see that her behaviour made me so angry.

DD's behaVIOUR 99% of the time is exemplary, I am very lucky, however she has (had, she is now on the pill) the most hideous PMT and her attitude towards me sometimes was awful.

Hormones do play a part in this, tbh, ever since she has gone on teh pill (purely for the fact that she had very heavy periods) her mood swings have settled.

She still rolls her eyes sometimes.

I think with teens it is simnilar to toddlers in that you have to be consistent and firm, without being hysterical.

[cornishblue]

@ toast frisbee

[pagwatch]

[ at Getorf

"I think with teens it is simnilar to toddlers in that you have to be consistent and firm, without being hysterical."

that is so true!

And you have to watch them like bloody hawks because they always get a bad habit about 6 months before you were expecting it.
DD has started this sorrowful shake of the head thing when I speak to her about the state of her room. I am sure I didn't have a decent " God mum, you are tragic and annoying" face until I was about 15.
[sigh]

[cornishblue]

pag, I said exactly that to DD - if she couldn't stay civil we would make a decision (on her punishment) without her input.

So we did. So she threw a monumental tantrum.

Told her this morning that I am always prepared to discuss and renegotiate but she must keep her tone and language in check.

God knows what her friends will be putting her up to at school now though.

[escondida]

Why does what Pagwatch advised sound so straightforward in theory but is so impossible in practice?

And what is the difference between "Answering back" and them merely asking "Why can't I?"?

(Just thinking aloud here)

I realised recently that DH & both have NO Powers of Persuasion. It might sound irrelevant, but all the people I know who argue that parenting discipline is straightforward to implement, are blessed with persusasive personalities. So no wonder it's straightforward for them.

Whilst some of us just plain aren't so endowed...

[cornishblue]

It's all in the delivery, escondida. Not what you say but how you say it.

I am not gifted in this area either

[GetOrfMoiLand]

With tantrums I think I would just leave the room. Say 'I am not being spoken to like that' and leave the room and refuse to engage with her until she calms down.

Or sling some bread products towards her general direction!

[cornishblue]

Very tempting.

Would a whole freshly-baked crusty loaf be acceptable?

[campion]

I bet she'll think twice before being so rude to him again.

Whether this was right or wrong, what's done is done and endless post mortems will play right into your DD's hands. A stroppy 12 year old also needs to know where the line stops, otherwise she could soon be ruling the roost.

[Undercovamutha]

I don't think that your DH needs to apologise to your DD, but I do think he should be civil to you and be willing to discuss the way the both of you discipline your DD. If he is anything like my DH he probably feels bad for doing it, but doesn't want to admit it. Whilst I have smacked my DD on occasion (she is a lot younger), and agree that everyone is human, if your DDs behaviour is getting this bad you probably need to sit down and formulate a more constructive plan to deal with it.

I am positive your DD won't be harmed by this in anyway, but hopefully she will remember it. My DM once called me a 'little bitch' when I was about 15 ! And this is coming from someone who never swore, EVER! I just pushed her so far: I deserved it AND I never forgot it! I am when I think about what a nightmare teen I was!

[cornishblue]

Interesting perspective dittany.

When we get the chance to talk about this DH will probably say that he isn't a violent man (true) but that she pushed him too far (also true). I will say ok then, but don't make a habit of it, here read this book on teenagers (which he won't) and we will leave there.

At least for now.

[webwiz]

I had a similar incident with my DH and DD1 - she was older and it was about staying out all night without letting us know where she was and her general unrepentant awfulness. It was the last straw in a long stretch of very bad behaviour (drinking, cannabis,horrible boys you name it DD1 was up for it ).

DH lost it with her and slapped her which was incredibly shocking at the time for all of us especially as up till that point I had only ever seen him lose his temper once in over 20 years. I told him in private that I thought he was in the wrong but yes DD1 was being awful.

In a way it put a stop on the shouting and arguing that had been going on and we discussed a different way of dealing with things. It was a very difficult time but what I learned from it was that you have to remember who is the adult and make a real effort to stay in control. Whether that is sending your DD to another room to calm down (and ignoring it when she bangs all the doors in the house) or doing the count to ten bit yourself. We had a bit of an up and down time over the next couple of years and although DD1 really pushed it DH didn't react in the same way again.

Our house is lovely and calm now - DD1 is at university and has turned into a nice person and my other two DCs just don't go in for the sort of defiance that their sister was fond of. My screaming banshee impression has been put away for now and hopefully can stay there.

[said]

Sympathies OP.

Can I go back to dealing with stroppy teens for a bit? - "if they are rude and start tantrumming you leave the room" (paraphrasing). What about when they follow you round the house/will not got to their own room? What are the strategies for really in-your-face teens? Maybe I should start a new thread. pagwatch makes it all sound so straightforward (and maybe it is). I know my parents didn't have too much trouble from my elder brothers but I was vile to my mum.