Appropriate punishment for these things:

[Remmy123]

13 year old boy:

At school:
Always late for classes despite warnings
messing around in class (tapping ruler, chatting)
homeeork incomplete
not correct equipment
smirking when teacher tells him off
terribke report (coasting in all subjects)

At home:

never does any chores (we don't give many)
messy room
doesn't do homework unless we tell him / done to terrible standard
doesn't hang or put clothes away messy room
never comes off Xbox when asked

i am end of my tether the school emails and phone calls

I think he has no respect for parents or teachers!

any advice welcome

thanks

Ground him, stop giving him any money if you do, take the x box away and anything else he has like that. Tell him he has to start helping around the house and with good behaviour he can earn these privileges back in time! I think you have to really put your foot down at this age because it will get worse

First thing I would do is take away the Xbox and assign privileges to use it. Do your homework = 30 minutes Xbox. No comments from school for a week = 1 hour Xbox etc

I personally don't worry too much about messy rooms.

Do you give regular lifts? Not giving a lift at the weekend unless room is tidied might work?

I'd sit down and chat (maybe in the car?) about how he feels bout this stuff.
Does he really not care or is it more he 'can't' and actually needs strategies to help him.
Executive function difficulties can go along with Dyspraxia, ADHD etc. Things can be hidden until secondary and only get picked up then when demands are higher.

Can you set a time limit on the Xbox? I mean like a physical timer? On my teens PS5 he only gets an hour playtime then it locks him out. We can add more time via parental controls if he requests it. Same with his phone. Then he can ‘earn’ extra time for good behaviour

Thanks all - I have just removed the x box from his room. He is in a detention tonight and we have a meeting with the year head tomorrow - it's relentless!

sometimes I think we are too soft / you are right giving him back privileges if he does certain things will have to be put in place.

@TeenDivided I really think he doesn't care unfortunately

I would definitely check though. It is sometimes easier for teens to use bravado than to ask for help.

I didn’t punish, I spoke to my child. Explained why it was problematic, asked what they would do to improve, set my expectations, let my disappointment in them be very obvious, and I kept the dialogue open, praising improvement, disappointment or even anger over failures, and it worked.

i don’t believe the go to should be get them to do something out of fear. Which is what punishment is.

so, whilst folks are enjoying coming up with punishments for your child, what conversations have you had with them over their behaviour.

If he doesn’t care I wouldn’t fully take his Xbox as this can be demotivating. We were advised by CAMHS to give a set amount of gaming time each day that is never lost but time can be increased through rewards. Sometimes taking things away can have a downward spiral effect. Not sure I’m explaining myself well.

Thinking isn’t knowing, this is your child. You’ve a duty of care. Take the conversation.

You don't need one-off 'punishments', you need a consistent approach to behaviour management. Clear rules and routines, reminders (visual and verbal; a wall chart with tasks that you remind him to check, for example) until he does things, incentives to get them done as well as negative outcomes when things are not done, and you have to stick to it forever.

For example, tidying his room. The instruction "tidy your room" is insurmountable to a lot of children until they learn the routine; you have to break it down. One task at a time. "We're going to tidy your room. Can you put all your lego away in the lego storage box, please?" then when that's done, the next task, and you have to repeat this sort of thing over and over, until he gets how to follow the procedure then you can gradually withdraw support until he gets to the point where he can just follow the instruction "go and tidy your room, please".

It would have been great to have started this when he was 6 or 7 but you are here and this is now. Whether there's an underlying issue or not, this will help him get out of the rut and into being more proactive.

He didn't wake up at this age with this set of issues.

100 percent.

I abhor the relish some posters show at the thought of a child being punished.

My DS (13) is similar. He is a mixture of doesn't care and getting overwhelmed with school tasks as he is struggling with his handwriting- he can write, just not fast & clearly! (It's one or the other!)

However we only found out about this after we raised concerns with school and many casual conversations with DS. We have now a plan in place stating January!

Maybe your DS is embarrassed, has learnt not to care or is simply to overwhelmed to confide in you.
Please don't misunderstand, school work (writing) is such an every day task that in DC eyes everyone should be able to do. Admitting inability is a huge task! You need to gently remove the stigma and embarrassment ... then find a suitable solution.

4 posts in and we have the list of possible SEN, do ppl not think that some kids just don't care and do as little as possible.

Don't think anyone here is "relishing the thought of a child being punished". OP asked for advice and that's what's being given. It's a difference of opinion, no need to get nasty about it

When chores weren’t being done, we turned off the router until they were finished. That seemed remarkably motivating for my teens.

Bad behaviour at school - you need to accept however school handles it. Their behaviour policies, detentions etc.

Bad behaviour at home - loss of devices. No xbox or phone til he has completed homework, shown you it, packed his bag for the next day and showered and put pjs on or whatever else you need him to do. Every single evening after school. Weekends - no xbox till after lunch, as long as his room is tidy, clothes on the laundry basket and whatever other chores seem suitable.

If he still can't comply with all this, bin the fucking thing (xbox not child).

Thanks all

we have tried different approaches in the past of praise.

we ask him to empty dishwasher he does it whilst crying like we have asked him something terrible.

smirking at teachers does need a punishment you should show respect

the school and us have been very clear with expectations and he isn't following

there is never any remorse

Honestly in your meeting with the head of year tomorrow, you just need to tell them that you support the behaviour measures they choose to implement whilst he is there - detentions, isolations etc. You fully support the school.

Assure them that, hand in hand with that, you are working on his behaviour at home too.

I actually think ‘not caring’ is a red flag for potential SEN/MH concerns. It’s a self-protective mechanism, if you don’t care you protect yourself from having to deal with uncomfortable feelings. I don’t think punishing someone who genuinely doesn’t care is effective because they don’t care enough about the consequences to amend their behaviour accordingly - which then feeds into a downward spiral of negative behaviour.

Really behaviour is communication so you need to work out what is trying to be communicated through the behaviour.

This is my approach too. However, whilst I have a 13 year old I have never had to deal with the behaviour described in the OP. I do wonder if I would be able to stick to the path of no punishments if I were faced with the same.
I think I would try and look at the causes of the behaviour.
Is he struggling to keep up in class?
Has he fallen in with the wrong crowd at school?
What games is he playing on the x box? Are they age appropriate?
Is he getting enough sleep? What time does he go to bed? Do you take his phone off him at night? Does he have access to screens in his room at night?

One thing that's really useful with teenagers, as a teacher, is ignoring the secondary behaviour. If he's emptying the dishwasher, that's great; don't ask him to do it happily but don't fret if he's crying, just ignore the secondary behaviour ( tears, smirking, eye rolling) and focus on the primary. If someone is doing something as a teacher I praise the primary behaviour and ignore smirks etc and eventually they don't bother with the annoying secondary behaviour as it doesn't make an impact. If you react you get into a ridiculous spiral where it's not enough (for example) to apologise they have to sound sincere. My mantra was always 'sincerity can come later; I need you to learn the words and form of an apology and be able to deliver it appropriately; once you're an adult you'll learn about how to act with more sincerity'. Make getting rid of the secondary behaviour an adult skill. Actually doing what they're told is the basis. Also agree with the breaking down small tasks; apart from anything else, that makes you able to reward each stage with praise, and the more you can sincerely praise the more they will comply.

@Remmy123 my son is the same age (but with ADHD) and up until quite recently I was going through a very similar thing with him (since September), a reluctance to engage in school and only showing real Interest when he is gaming. I was also getting constant emails/texts from school about detentions. I discussed it with him numerous times and his story would always be that school were overreacting and that they give out detentions for everything/whilst the schools story would be one of him showing reluctance to complete class work, being dismissive about the importance of his education etc. So after some reflection... and trying to work out what was ADHD related (for him), and what was defiance.... I had a meeting with school to ensure he was receiving any additional learning support needed, and also had a chat with him about his feelings regarding school/homelife, and found that he had very little appreciation of how fortunate he was to have minimal chores and numerous gadgets etc. He also seemed to think effort at school wasn't necessary until closer to GCSE time, and there was also an element of trying to impress his peers (puberty etc). So I'm now trying to reset these behaviours and thought processes in him....I got a bit complacent myself and let the ball drop I think. Presently I have locked all apps on his phone (barring text and phone calls) and removed his PlayStation and his TV permanently or until I see consistent improvement in school. Since I've put these consequences in place I've seen that he spends less time in his bedroom and engages more with his younger sister, and I'm also advised by school that he seems to be making a bigger effort with his class work. My son believes that his improved behaviour will return his gaming and phone access to the way things were previously, but if I'm honest I don't really plan on letting him have the previous level of access again. Weekend gaming and access to some apps again will come, but just not the same freedom as before

Thanks very much for your advice it's been very helpful!

@MamaMissions really pleased to hear your son has improved I really feel
that gaming / phones etc have alot to answer for! I do need to restrict gaming etc