Daughter needs locking up,partner threatening to leave with our baby

[hertsgirl1984]

Shes 15 ad 3 months. For the last 3years shes refused to attend school despite all the usual incentives and punishments and has been rude and stroppy. She is so lazy that she leaves dirty plates of food and clothes and cigarette butts in her room and i have twice ended up with a poorly dog after hes been in there! She isnt allowed to eat in her room , much less smoke but she really doesnt care what i say or take any notice. Family and home life couldnt really be better for her, my partner and I never, ever argue our home (apart from her room) is lovely and although we are not rich we do not struggle and the girl has all the latest clothes, gadgets etc, she's been on luxury cruises with the grandparents and has enjoyed a childhood which was healthy and easy going. Shes always been hard work from a toddler who disliked affection and was only happy when destroying things , to a child who spent primary school starting arguments with other children and then crying bullying for attention. She pretends to have anxiety and depression to duck out of school and as an excuse for her behaviour when she gets arrested for assaulting me or damaging our home but It's lies as she is happy to catch a train anywhere to get a new piercing or meet friends. She refers to me as 'fat c' (I'm a size 12 and 26 weeks pregnant) and says she hates my partner and he is also a fat c and if I threaten to punish her for ruining our home or stealing she says she will cause trouble for him(by this I assume she means calling the police or something and telling them lies) he really is a wonderfully kind and gentle guy and has only stopped doing things for her since she became really nasty. She leaves the house at 3am sometimes and steals whenever she can so I sleep with my purse etc under my bed. She has told me that she hopes our child will be disabled and has wished him dead too.I have never said anything nasty like this to her, when I criticise her behaviour I literally tell her what shes done wrong I never resort to childish name calling or hurtful things (even though sometimes I want to tell her a few things) I walk away when I'm getting too stressed to remain in control so I dont know where shes learnt this awful behaviour. Im frightened of her, I hate her stinking room and the fact that her boyfriend seems to be at my home all the time, I hate being spoken to like s** and having my home smashed up or being hit if I attempt to discipline her. She put on a show for the social worker which made her seem lovely and made me look mental, she was discharged from CAMHS because she sat and took the piss out of the counsellor and refused to engage with appointments etc and after becoming a regular at the custody suite, she likes the attention from police officers and usually manages to manipulate them into thinking shes some sort of victim. Am I wrong to want her to leave before our baby arrives? I know this isnt possible as shes banned from most relatives homes, let alone be able to stay there so we are stuck with her, well I am, my other half is threatening to move out with the baby if things dont change.

[LuxuryWoman2017]

I agree with OneWithTheForce desperately difficult situation and I feel for you all, but she is a clearly troubled girl. Her parents split up when young, hardly saw her (rejection) sounds like he never contributed to her upbringing (she may have overheard things, rows, you complaining to your friends about him) New partner comes along at an age a girl really needs her mum (puberty) and now mum is pregnant.
I feel tremendously sorry for her whilst sympathising with you too.
Please don't give up on her though, she needs you. I was so similar and came through it (similar circs too)

[WriterNeedsHelp2017]

Did you notice a difference in her behaviour when your partner moved in?

[IHaveBrilloHair]

My Dd is 15, she cleaned out the cat litter trays today without being asked, she ran an errand for me and said how much she enjoyed the meal I made last night, and thanked me for getting her the drink she likes (Alpro chocolate milk)
She's so much fun to be around, is great to talk to and I really enjoy her company, she has goals in life and is working hard to achieve them.

7 months ago I told Social Services I wouldn't have her in my home, she was rude, spiteful, stole from me, emotional abusive, controlling and violent.
She now lives in a Children's Unit, the only thing that worked was making it clear that I was not prepared to have her here, I was terrified constantly in my own home.

It's drastic, but I couldn't live like that anymore, and neither should you.

[icanteven]

It strikes me that there has been a softly-softly pattern for a long time here and a reluctance to come down heavily on her for unacceptable behaviour. There should never have been any question of £200 a month for starters (although I realise she has almost never hit that target), and you don't actually have to allow her boyfriend into your home at all, ever.

Am I right in thinking that you were quite young when you had her? Are your parents still on the scene?

It might not be too late to enforce some structure on her life, but you need to be consistent and strict, not constantly scared of offending her, and you need to keep hammering away at CAMHS. It might be for the child and not the parent, but that child is going to a permanent burden on the benefits system if she hasn't received an education because she refused to go and refuses to engage with figures of authority on any level, so it's as much in the state's interest to sort her out as yours.

When you say she has refused to go to school, are you saying that she has received NO formal education since she was 12? At all?

[OneWithTheForce]

The more I think on this the more I think partner and baby moving out is the best thing for her as sending her away would be the worst, certainly worst for your relationship with her anyway. Rejected by father, mum unable to bond due to difficult child, new partner and now new baby. Sending her away would just be the final confirmation that she isn't wanted or loved. What she needs is a massive demonstration of just how loved and wanted she is and I think clearing everyone else out so it is just you and her and making an active decision to focus on her is what will kick start any positive change if there is to be one.

[AddictedtoLovely]

I wish there was a like button. I havebrillihair, great post. I'm so glad things are working out for you both.

[OneWithTheForce]

Or I could Be entirely wrong as brillohair's post demonstrates! Maybe something like that would be good for your DD too. It's so hard to know what to do for the best. If you are scared of her and I think you seem to have a tendency to spoil her materially maybe just you and her at home would be a bad idea. Sounds like she could manipulate that situation very well.

[TaliZorahVasNormandy]

Given her exactly what she wants, ie no SF and no baby, would not improve her behaviour, it'll just prove that kicking and screaming works.

Her having to go into a children's unit, even temporarily might be just enough of a shock to the system she needs. Right now its the soft approach and its not working, maybe now try the tough approach.

[WriterNeedsHelp2017]

How did you go about getting her into a children's home, IHaveBrilloHair? I'm so glad it's working out for you all - what an incredible relief.

[toastymarshmallow]

There is a negative cycle going on that as the adult you are capable of breaking OP. It might not be the answer to everything, but going round and round in circles isn't helping anyone.

You also need to separate your emotions from her behaviour, which is a bloody hard thing to do, but it is absolutely necessary.

I feel like you need to try to move away from negative behaviour correction and begin to use more positive methods. Giving her material things and money or NOT doing so isn't really the answer. What do you do to motivate and inspire and encourage her?

From your post I can't help but think that you are dismissive towards her feelings. After years of being ground down I can see why it is difficult to think about how she is feeling, especially with the way she treats you, but as her parent it is part of your responsibility.

This behaviour is not appearing from nowhere. A happy child wouldn't be calling people fat cunts or refusing to go to school. A happy child wouldn't be stuck in negative patterns of behaviour that involve police and constant fighting at home. No one enjoys that no matter how much you think she looks like she is enjoying it.

You say she is "pretending" to be depressed. Do you know about depression? Do you know the different ways in which it can manifest?

Based on the info here, my feeling is that while you mean well, you have been too emotionally tied up in your DDs "difficult" behaviour. She has come to realise that she is responsible for your happiness or lack of, and she wants no part in it. She has a distant father, no meaningful discipline, no structure, a new step parent, and now her mum is pregnant. She has been labelled as "difficult" from a young age and now that has become a self fulfilling prophecy. She has low self esteem and feels worthless.

You need to break the cycle OP.

[IHaveBrilloHair]

Thank you Addicted, things are going brilliantly.
OneWith, I realised after many years that nothing worked, you give them what they want and its not emough, it's never enough.
If I was given £100 just for me and I gave Dd £99 of it, when she was little she'd sulk until I gave her the extra pound, she got older and would steal the extra pound, even older and she'd beat me up for it, and was getting to the stage where she'd have the extra pound and another £50 on top no matter what she had to do.
Ok, that's about money, but it was everything, she once stormed out of the house in a rage because I suggested buying her new clothes and she didn't like them, but couldn't be bothered to look for ones she did like.
I had to make sure there was always the foods she liked and several so they never ran out, but I wasn't allowed to eat them
I had to have all the housework done to her specification every day
I wasn't allowed to have music on
I was worried to wear certain clothes in case that set her off because she hated them
I broke my back taking out the bin because when I asked her to Hoover she punched me in the head four times.
I got cross when came home late so she hit my head off the radiator and kicked me in the floor
I confiscated her laptop, she beat me up with it

I made my stance clear when I said no more and had her put in care, it's got me my daughter back, it wasn't an easy thing to do but it was the right thing to do, for both of us.

[blankmind]

You may find some of the strategies on this site useful.
www.livesinthebalance.org/

I hope you find a non-traumatic way forward for all of you.

[WriterNeedsHelp2017]

IHaveBrilloHair, what do you think they did with her in the home to stop that sort of terrible behaviour? I really feel for you - you must have felt like you were in prison with someone dangerous.

[OneWithTheForce]

Oh brillo! that is just horrendous. I have no experience of this, I was just trying to think of myself as a teen. But really I had no insight at all. I am so sorry for what you went through. Does your DD have a diagnosis of any kind?

[IHaveBrilloHair]

She doesn't yet have a diagnosis, she's waiting for assessment, I tried to get her assessed when she was 8 but no one would believe me, they said it was because I am a bad parent.
She's done it herself this time, went to the GP and told him what she thinks she might have.
Obviously I'm not a Dr but Aspegers/PDA/ODD is what I think, and she identifies with it too and accepts it, she was in denial for ages.

[OneWithTheForce]

That is interesting because I have issues with my DS (7) and I recognise him in some of the things you describe and he is currently awaiting assessment for autism. I suspect PDA based on far too much research I have being doing. It sounds like your DD is in a good place and keen to help herself which is great. I hope things stay as good for you and her.

[2017watchoutherewecome]

Op, you've had masses of good advice. I hope you find some solutions for her, you and your baby.
How does your partner treat her?

[Meeep]

You don't talk about her in a very nice way as a small child even.

Strikes me as though her side of the story might be a bit different.

Why did you think it would be a good idea to have another baby in the home when your daughter was crying out desperately for some sort of help?

[IHaveBrilloHair]

Writer, several things.
First, she knew I wouldn't have her here like that.
The rules there don't come from a person, they are the rules of the unit
There's more people, with at least dilutes the anger, and if she hates somebody, they go home in 8 hours and it'll be someone else on shift, plus there's always at least two staff members.
Realising herself just how bad her behaviour was
Realising from the other kids where she'd be if she carried on (she's the only one who goes to school full time)
Appreciating what she had at home, including me and the rules/guidance I've given her.

In many ways we got lucky, the Unit is almost next door, she comes and goes for visits whenever she wants, and now stays over, I have my niggles with them but nothing terrible or worrying.
I believe she needs us both, they give her the extra people she needs for support, they are at work so always on the ball, never ill and everything is the same.
There's other kids to take the spotlight off her, but also to bond with, and bicker with.
If she goes missing they deal, with it, they phone the Police and are taken seriously in a way I wouldn't be.
I give her the love and support only a Mum can.
We have the best of both worlds.

[Shurelyshomemistake]

There must, just must, be a reason for her behaviour - be it relationship-based, mental health condition, attachment disorder.

Did anything happen in her very early childhood to disrupt her attachment to you? Long spells apart? Mental health condition or abuse from her birth father??

Maybe I am naive in looking for a cause, I don't know...

Has she seen an actual psychiatrist? Not just a counsellor.....apologies if you said, I couldn't see but may have missed...

[OneWithTheForce]

Of course there are reasons! There are reasons for every single thing that every one of us does. It won't be one single thing that has caused her behaviours. It will be the combination of her environment, relationships and mental health that has lead to this situation.

[YNK]

Poor kid!

[PhilODox]

I would say her childhood issues stemmed from having no father, and her teen issues from having a step parent, who is now replacing her with his own cosy family.
Thats from her POV.
I've worked with a lot of severely troubled and vulnerable teens, and many of them had issues stemming from new bf/gf/stepparent on the scene.

I think you need outside help. The situation cannot continue , you need to consider your health, your safety, the safety of your unborn child.
Good luck.

[zeddybrek]

You have my sympathy OP.

Your DD sounds exactly like my brother. He is now 32 and only recently in the last 2 years grown out of this behaviour and I cannot believe he has transformed into a responsible and caring man. There is hope.

However I agree with all the great advice by PP, unfortunately you have to fight for help. I wish my mum had as it is so difficult for the whole family. In hindsight I would say my brother would have been better behaved if he knew my mum wouldn't bail him out of every situation. Maybe your DD is the same in that she knows she can get away with it so she does this. Maybe asking her to leave would be a wake up call. If she refuses you can get help. My mum would call the police and then nothing. He would be back in the house and sometimes worse.

Good luck OP. Whatever you do don't suffer for years like we did.

[corythatwas]

I am leaning towards toasty's take on this. On the face of it, you have been very generous and perhaps lax with the amount of money handed out. On the other hand, her actual experience is that of a negative cycle where she is always failing, always in trouble, always being punished and never really able to feel good about herself. You need to find a way of breaking this cycle, whether with external help or on your own.

her violence and language have clearly got to stop and nobody should have to put up with that: you have a right to a home where you can feel safe

otoh you seem to imply that your dd has no right to be depressed or unhappy because she has always been bought the latest gadgets and taken on luxury cruises- as if those were things that could reasonably be expected to make a difference to people's inner wellbeing. In fact, I have often found it wise not to do more things for my dc than I can do without resenting it later- because resentment is a horrible burden to bear, both for the person who feels it and the person who is the object of it.

one other minor point: I have a dd who has not got any of the behavioural problems you relate, but who has been diagnosed and is being medicated for anxiety and depression, and some of the behaviour you take as proof of your dd not being depressed/anxious are actually very typical: being able to cope with escapist behaviour but not with everyday life.

also, your own description seems to be that of a child who was troubled from a very early age, far before she could take any responsibility for her behaviour, or before it could be the result of your financial generosity. It seems to suggest that there is a problem which was not caused by her external circumstances, but which has perhaps been exacerbated by them- and for which you could perhaps access help.