Daughter needs locking up,partner threatening to leave with our baby

[hertsgirl1984]

Shes 15 ad 3 months. For the last 3years shes refused to attend school despite all the usual incentives and punishments and has been rude and stroppy. She is so lazy that she leaves dirty plates of food and clothes and cigarette butts in her room and i have twice ended up with a poorly dog after hes been in there! She isnt allowed to eat in her room , much less smoke but she really doesnt care what i say or take any notice. Family and home life couldnt really be better for her, my partner and I never, ever argue our home (apart from her room) is lovely and although we are not rich we do not struggle and the girl has all the latest clothes, gadgets etc, she's been on luxury cruises with the grandparents and has enjoyed a childhood which was healthy and easy going. Shes always been hard work from a toddler who disliked affection and was only happy when destroying things , to a child who spent primary school starting arguments with other children and then crying bullying for attention. She pretends to have anxiety and depression to duck out of school and as an excuse for her behaviour when she gets arrested for assaulting me or damaging our home but It's lies as she is happy to catch a train anywhere to get a new piercing or meet friends. She refers to me as 'fat c' (I'm a size 12 and 26 weeks pregnant) and says she hates my partner and he is also a fat c and if I threaten to punish her for ruining our home or stealing she says she will cause trouble for him(by this I assume she means calling the police or something and telling them lies) he really is a wonderfully kind and gentle guy and has only stopped doing things for her since she became really nasty. She leaves the house at 3am sometimes and steals whenever she can so I sleep with my purse etc under my bed. She has told me that she hopes our child will be disabled and has wished him dead too.I have never said anything nasty like this to her, when I criticise her behaviour I literally tell her what shes done wrong I never resort to childish name calling or hurtful things (even though sometimes I want to tell her a few things) I walk away when I'm getting too stressed to remain in control so I dont know where shes learnt this awful behaviour. Im frightened of her, I hate her stinking room and the fact that her boyfriend seems to be at my home all the time, I hate being spoken to like s** and having my home smashed up or being hit if I attempt to discipline her. She put on a show for the social worker which made her seem lovely and made me look mental, she was discharged from CAMHS because she sat and took the piss out of the counsellor and refused to engage with appointments etc and after becoming a regular at the custody suite, she likes the attention from police officers and usually manages to manipulate them into thinking shes some sort of victim. Am I wrong to want her to leave before our baby arrives? I know this isnt possible as shes banned from most relatives homes, let alone be able to stay there so we are stuck with her, well I am, my other half is threatening to move out with the baby if things dont change.

You say you're sick of her behaviour, yet you indirectly endorse it by giving her lots of money, latest clothea, gadgets, expensive trips. In return she treats everyone around like a complete doormat. If my child spoke to me and treated me or my husband that way, I'd never give her a dime or buy her a thing (not to mention I would call the police if she destroyed any home property at the age of 15). Sounds like she isn't learning any lessons.

The behavioural school is a good suggestion.

Molestation question - only OP and her daughter know the truth, but abuse is NOT always the answer or reason for horrible entitled behaviour!

But even £20 is to much for someone abusing you and not even going to school/helping at home. The CSA money doesn't need to be solely for her anyhow it can go towards house bills , food etc. If you have enough to give her £200 a month I'd scrap giving it to her and take her for private therapy. I'd also pester camhs duty team and they might get you an appointment sooner my dd refuses therapy etc but camhs have still had her on the books for 4 years , they've been to school to see her and home.

How long have you been with you partner? I'm guessing 3ish years?

I'd also call the police every time to show her she can't do it! Dd knows I would in a heartbeat if she damaged property or hurt me , she still damages her own stuff in rage which isn't ideal but she knows not to cross that line, although I am told to fuck off most days

Well OP I'm caught up now and since your last post I understand why you meant. The truth is that a holiday is not going to help. How about getting her some part time job away from the house? You would do better to have her away from your family home. Can she stay with her grandparents? I stayed with my grandparents when I was having problems and it's one of the main reasons that I'm not sitting in a jail cell. I still don't get on massively with my family but we are tolerable.

I doubt state boarding is an option. They're generally hard to get into. The one near me certainly is. We've applied to move dd there and they're very open saying they will refuse anychild they think won't fit. It's strict and academic. They've taken references for dd from current school.

I don't know what to suggest. Do the school offer counselling?

Wow £200 a month...mine got £20 a month at that age

Also onewithforce's question is valid.

This sounds like a complete nightmare for all of you. Your daughter sounds like a deeply troubled girl, is there a pattern to the behaviour at all that yo can identify? I ask because I was similar at her age and I had terrible PMS that I didn't realise until much later, I think it's still not taken seriously in young girls and it's much. much more than being a bit moody. I could have happily murdered people. Worth a thought?
You being pregnant will have her feeling pushed out too, do you ever feel able to spend one to one time with her or has it gone too far? Between new babies, a dad who is hopeless and her age she has a lot to be angry about, it's how to manage that is the hard bit.
The dirty room is normal btw, annoying but choose your battles

So where is the Education Welfare Department in all this? I assume they're accepting the fact that she is out of school as you haven't mentioned threats of prosecution etc. That must mean that they accept that she is unable to go for health reasons (e.g. anxiety) or because the reality is that they can't find a school place for her. That should in turn mean that they look at getting an Education Health and Care Plan in place so that they can explore the possibility of a specialist placement for children with social, emotional and mental health difficulties. Has any of that been discussed?

No idea what to suggest, but this is grossly abnormal behaviour by any stretch of the imagination, and reading your post it seems as though the issues have been there since early childhood.

Having said that - has there been an escalation of the behaviour since your partner moved in and you became pregnant? I wonder if she's afraid that she's being sidelined? How long has your partner been on the scene?

As a family I'd say you need professional help, but as she's obviously not willing to engage it looks pretty difficult. Are there ever times when you can talk to her person to person and ask her why she finds life so difficult - what she would like to happen, how she would like her life to be? I mean serious talking without any pressure, blame, heated tempers etc.

You sound like you are doing a great job with no support (except your DP). My concern would be for your unborn baby when he/she is born. Will your baby be safe in your home? Your DD sadly sounds violent - you said she hits you - and a baby is obviously too small and vulnerable to be around this. Foster care could be your only option here.
OP. Well done for all you do and have done so far. Your situation sounds so hard.

OMG, what a horrible situation. If it was me it wouldn't have got that far, do you allow the bf to stay over? for a start that ends, I wouldn't have such a negative influence in my house. I have told my 4 (2 are older than yours) that smoking = moving out and finding other accommodation. I wouldn't have her treating me like that - no way should you have ever allowed it to begin. Move her out and let her stand on her own two feet. I think she might come crawling back pretty fast!

Im worried that foster care will make her even worse in terms of the long term outcome, most girls who go into care dont do well.

Well, she isn't doing well now, is she? I don't see how she could do much worse than she currently is. She hasn't been to school for three years, she's a criminal, she's violent and abusive and a risk to you and your unborn child. You've said she's "banned from most relatives' homes" so clearly, her issues are not just with you but with other people too. Her long term outcome is already bad.

I would never, ever say this lightly ... but I do think you are looking a situation where you might have to consider asking SS to put her in care for everyone's sake. If you did, then she would at least be on SS's radar and have more attention from them than she currently has.

She may have some mental health issues, but I think the counsellor she 'took the piss out of' would have been able to make some guess at what those issues might be even if she 'refused to engage'. A counsellor can still observe a child's behaviour and refusal to engage says something in itself. It's also worth remembering that you can have mental health issues and, quite separately, also be a nasty piece of work. Mental health problems are not a blanket explanation for the behaviour you're describing.

From what you've said, I do think you're being way too soft on her. For example, why are you letting her boyfriend in the house all the time if you don't like him being there? Why don't you tell him he's got to leave? Your daughter may well tell you to fuck off, but I doubt he will - and if he does, then that's it, you call the police and say he is refusing to leave.

I wouldn't be giving her any allowance at all, not even the £20. I would also be giving local shopkeepers a picture of her and telling them she is underage and that if they continue to sell her fags you will report them for it. Why does she have the latest clothes and gadgets, ffs?

How long have you been with you partner? I'm guessing 3ish years?

The OP did say her daughter was a difficult and destructive child even as a toddler and all the way through primary school. Her problems in general didn't start three years ago, only the school refusal.

She sounds like a very angry and unhappy girl. Is there any possibility of family therapy to address why she is acting out like this? You need to be prepared to listen to her issues, there must be something at the root of this.

State boarding definitely not the right move. My DD14 is a weekly boarder at a state school and I know they wouldn't take a girl unless she really wanted to be there and had good references from previous schools.

Yes we've been together just over three years. My daughter has seen all the eople you would expect, doctors, Education welfare, CAMHS so many.As I said before she was always a handful and very stubborn and aloof and never responded to praise and positive feedback which is why I put the reward system in place, It was also to give her a sense of independance which she seemed to crave so she could buy her own clothes and eat out when she fancied it, sometimes she would save money for several weeks and buy an expensive gadget which I thought was developing maturity but alas, these days she never seems to earn the reward and I reckon it would get wasted anyway. You've all made really good points and helped me to think about things from different perspectives. I do believe that I could have been stricter and held up the boundaries a bit more when she was younger and easier to manage and I always thought that she would'grow out of it' with certain behaviours but at the same tme it's clear that somethings not right with her personality, I was a bit of a madam at that age but still hated being in trouble and seeing my parents upset and disappointed. She is very cold towards all family members and is rude about their appearance and stuff. I thought it was an attention thing and kept planning days out and activities like baking and movies together, she keeps turning me down and I feel rejected and it hurts so if I'm honest, I probably stopped this a few months back as it was upsetting to keep getting turned down.

I'm so sorry! I posted on the wrong thread.

So what is happening about school? Why is no-one official making a fuss about the fact she has been out of school so long? What are they doing about it?

Yes, thought his arrival might have had something to do with the more recent behaviours. I don't think it's a coincidence that the school refusal and worsening behaviour happened when he came on the scene.

If you don't want her going in foster care, do you think it might actually be the best option for your partner to move out with the baby (as a safety measure) and try and focus on your DD who is really in trouble right now? Baby will be fine with dad. You'll still be mum and see them loads but I think your DD needs you more and i think it's an avenue worth exploring.

Did you bond well when she was a baby? It does sound like attachment behaviour. My dd has quite a few diagnosises (not attachment) but she isn't violent and does love me sometimes (not often). Easier said than done but try love bombing her as your both stuck in a negative rut. Even when dd has a face like thunder I'll give her compliments or ask her advice (over silly little things like make up/hair) and ask her questions that I know appeal to her interest then thank her for any advice. If she has a good day I acknowledge it often and ask what she'd like for tea etc dangle a carrot in the hope 1 good day might turn into 10. I also found putting dd on the pill helped (she had horrific periods but def helped the PMT). Keep asking her to watch films with you etc.

My 17 yo gets 50 quid a month, and she's good as gold! Last month was the first month she's overspent, and that was due to buying me an expensive Xmas present (Kindle Fire ).

So cut her allowance down drastically anyway. Put whatever is left into an ISA or something long term - she may need it one day.

Meantime, start telling the SWs the bald truth. Don't waste people's time by glossing over things or putting the best side of things.

Ask your gp if there's anything they can do to help you too.