Extreme behaviour I am seriously at the end of my tether :(

[Wineandchocolateneededasap]

DD nearly 15 has been difficult since puberty. She sees camhs but won't engage enough for them to be of any help. She literally can't deal with boundaries, she has always had them and I don't give in but she still throws the same reaction every time I say no. She has started lying that I have agreed to things I haven't (and know I haven't) then going mad when I say no I never agreed. When I say no she instantly cries, throws things about, kicks her doors, breaks her stuff then texts me hundreds and hundreds of times. The content of her texts are manipulative and mainly emotional blackmail.
So for instance tonight we were getting along fine all day, went for lunch, watched a film then she says "I'm going to X's house now for a sleepover" I say "No you haven't asked its school tomorrow" (X lives miles away and goes to another school, DD is not good at school needs sleep!) she insists I agreed today, I didn't. So for the last four hours she has been throwing the contents of her room down the stairs, kicking doors, screaming as if she's being attacked and jumping up and down on the spot (whole bloody house shaking). Her texts are constant how I never loved her, love ruining her life, she will do something stupid if I don't give in, she's running away, she's having a panic attack, she's going to harm herself , she needs space so is going, she hates living with me, she hates me I'm evil so on and so forth.
We have had a lovely day but loads of days end like this she tells me she's doing something if I don't agree this happens. It lasts hours and hours and hours! Does anyone else have this? I hate ending days like this I'm permanently exhausted with the dramas. It's like a toddler tantrum but way worse.

[Wineandchocolateneededasap]

It's impossible no amount of reasoning, sanctions etc make any difference. DDs dad was abusive to but again no contact and not witnessed. Sorry for brief reply I'm at work awaiting a call from DDs school . She apologised this morning but in same sentence said "sorry for last night but I am staying out tonight and you can't stop me".

[Wineandchocolateneededasap]

Yes it is in the past family and friends just get angry at DD and it just doesn't help. School are aware and camhs.

[hippowithsuncreen]

Same problem.
I remove the x box. She becomes furious, calls me names and then forgets about the x box after a couple of days.

She doesn't go out much so grounding her makes no difference.

I asked her nicely, I reward good behaviour, I shout. Nothing works.

She was horrendous this morning yet she's just going to come home as though nothing has happened and I am at loss what to actually do with her anymore

[Peebles1]

Wine I have DD probs but not the same, but she did used to insist I'd said yes to something I hadn't. I used to say: 'I know I didn't say yes because I know I don't agree with it so why would I have said yes?' I agree with a previous poster about written evidence. I know it sounds daft, but maybe you could talk to her when things are nice between you and say when she wants something write it down on paper when she asks, and you sign if you've said yes. Texts can be deleted so paper prob better. You could avoid her kicking off at the start of the discussion by saying maybe she thought you had said yes, so this might be a way to prove it in the future. Also, something else that might sound daft but it's sometimes good for boys so why not girls - invest in a punch bag? Discuss during a close, nice time - sometimes we get really angry, it's not good to punch things and people, how about if we get a punch bag bla bla. Sorry if they seem like crazy ideas, just some practical thoughts. It's heartening that you have lovely days together - keep focusing on that. Feeling for you - I have yet another school refusal day from DD today. Grrrrr!

[Travelledtheworld]

Sorry for you with difficult teenagers mine went off rude and grumpy this morning but they will still love me tonight.

[Clare1971]

OP does she actually go ahead and do what you've said she can't? For example, would she go to a friends if you say no or does she just stay at home and have her major tantrum? Just wondering as it sounds as if, on some level, she's still abiding by your rules - but making you pay for them. I'm wondering why she doesn't just ignore you and go out anyway? Is it the row she's really after? Is she getting something from the screaming dramas? Christ knows what though. Sorry - not much help but plenty of sympathy.

[wigglybeezer]

Have you looked up Oppositional Defiance Disorder and Pathological Demand Avoidance, not that any magic solutions are offered for these problems but what I read confirmed what I suspected - that reward and punishment systems that worked with ordinary children do not work with really oppositional children. I then felt that at least I couldn't blame myself for giving up on star charts etc. when DS1 was younger.

[Wineandchocolateneededasap]

She generally does what I've asked. She hasn't gone to her friends regardless but she is like a broken record going on and on and on about it. She has spent the whole school day in the chill out area and I have had a record 118 missed calls and way more messages. She is home but going on and on and on about going out its like a form of torture . Why won't she just accept no is no have a sulk and move on ! I have often thought of PDA and ODD but she won't engage with anyone so impossible to know for sure.

[ImperialBlether]

I came on here to ask whether you'd considered ODD and PDA. I'm worried that anything I say will sound bleeding obvious, so I apologise in advance - I wondered whether you could write down everything she does - just bullet it - and see a doctor and ask for their advice re those conditions? It's the bit where you say that she's out of control when she's challenged that made me think of ODD. I know someone with it and it's incredibly hard for her parents. She is educated at the hospital school at the moment.

[Wineandchocolateneededasap]

She is under camhs already, they are aware of her difficulties but camhs don't diagnose odd anymore. The paperwork says she presents with "an oppositional stance and emotional dysregulation and significant difficulties with attention, hyperactivity etc" but she won't engage with a thing. I broke down in tears today spoke to school they are referring her to "early help" hoping it helps but I'm sure my parenting will be to blame .

[ImperialBlether]

Of course it's not your parenting! Who on earth could cope with that sort of behaviour?

Do you have other children? How does that pan out?

[Wineandchocolateneededasap]

She's an only child and I have no plans to procreate again .

I'm not perfect and have given her bits of ammunition I have sworn a few times in last 2 years and she can't wait to tell anyone who listens. I know i shouldn't but honestly she is so persistent and in your face its hard to always remain calm.

[NickiFury]

Also ADHD can manifest itself in this way with very oppositional behaviour. The wish being thwarted gives them something to fasten on and they love the stimulation and adrenaline rush.

[Wineandchocolateneededasap]

It could be a whole host of things and I suspect at least a few but without engaging there are no answers. I just need to figure out how to cope in the mean time and how to better manage the anger.

[NickiFury]

Oh I can well believe how had it is not to engage. I have a nine year is with ASD who sounds quite similar. Once she kicks off that's it. Sometimes I look at her and I can see she's about to go but I absolutely do not have the energy or reserves left to bring her back after a day of it. We are not super heroes!

[ImperialBlether]

OP, please stop thinking you're doing something to cause this or make things worse. That's what happens in abusive relationships. You walk on eggshells, while blaming yourself.

[Bonkerz]

Cahms do diagnose and you have to push. My son sounds same as your dd. He has a dx of asd/odd/ADHD/ emotional disregulation and also dissociative anxiety.
I can't advise on how to deal with it as each child is so different.
My own son can be explosive.
Strategies take months to build and if I'm honest my patience runs thin but we have found that 'putting him in charge' of the decision helps or we give him 2 choices and he chooses one so for example if he's been rude then punishment choice would be no internet for a week or grounded for a week.
He feels in control which limits the explosion. Also we give him time to digest and be angry before making a decision.

We've had 7 years with a diagnosis and also 7 years of him attending an autism specific school which has really helped to find strategies but we still fail. He is also on risperidone and atemoxetine which help control the aggression.

[Wineandchocolateneededasap]

Thank you. It is beyond difficult as I can't agree to everything but as soon as I disagree things blow up by epic proportion. I wonder how she'd cope if it were something serious.

[Wineandchocolateneededasap]

I do the choice thing but she chooses then still goes off on one! It's so tricky as it alienates you from friends and there is no chance of me dating . I feel for her but some days I just want to scream at her for being so selfish.

[ImperialBlether]

So it's just the two of you? That is hard. What was her father like? Does he have any contact?

[Wineandchocolateneededasap]

Yes just the two of us. He was very abusive (but she doesn't know this) there has been no contact for years.

[littledrummergirl]

Sell her phone to fix the hoover- two problems sorted as she can't keep texting you.
I think you are a lot more tolerant than I am, I wish I could offer more better advice but I am after tips myself.

[Squashybanana]

Buy a copy of 'the explosive child' by Ross Greene. Read it cover to cover. Put it into practice. Breathe a sigh of relief.

[Wineandchocolateneededasap]

I have read that one good book but I forget it when it's all action!

[Lunar50]

I've had the same with my daughters temper tantrums and she's nearly 20 now. I would try and get to the bottom of why she's do angry and her behaviour towards you is unacceptable. I know after talking to my daughter is that she's under pressure, lonely and doesn't have a bf. It breaks my heart as she's tearing my relationship with my husband apart as he backs her and treats me like the teen. I hope things work out for you, I honestly think these are the most difficult years of your life, but hopefully it will pass. Keep strong and don't be a doormat. Sending positive vibes to you xx