Ds totally lost the plot because I stopped him taking a bong to school !!!

[justbreathe]

My Ds 16 has completely lost it.

I took him out of school for an appointment today , he went off into a shop to get something and left his bag in the car. He had been being really suspicious with his bag so I had a look inside and found a large bong. I asked what the hell he was doing taking a bong to school... I know a lot of kids at his school smoke dope and he knows I dissaprove.
He went completely crazy at me invading his privacy and looking in his bag, and that if he wanted to take it to school he would and it was none of my f**ing business.
He refused to give it to me and ran off and either stashed it or gave it to a friend. I went after him and threatened to go into the school and tell the head. We talked or rather he shouted his head off, dented the car and spat ... He totally .lost the plot and went quite insane for a bit.
As he was in no state to go back into class and I wasn't sure if I wanted to involve the school I decided to take him home.
He is still really outraged that I went prying into his stuff and adamant that he will take his bong to school and smoke dope there if he wants......
I am completely flumoxed at his violent outburst/stupidity/ total lack of respect for any rules. should I tell the school ? I haven't found them very supportive in the past and they already know he's a smoker.
I am furious and want to punish him but also fear he is on the edge and If I go in too hard he will leave home and move in with his dodgy friend and his drug addict mum.
He really is convinced that its ME who has the problem and the fact that he is bothering to go to school and turning up for class means that he should be able to get stoned in his free periods !!!

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

The only heckler on this thread has been you Shirt.

[flow4]

shirt, if you have been using skunk for 14 years, you really ought to get yourself some better information. There's a lot of evidence that cannabis can adversely affect your mental health. You're deluding yourself if you pretend there isn't. Using it doesn't cause mental illness, but it increases risk for many people, particularly those who start using it young. For example:

• Around 1 in 10 cannabis users have unpleasant experiences, including confusion, hallucinations, anxiety and paranoia.
  
• Adolescents who use cannabis daily are about five times more likely to develop depression and anxiety in later life.
  
• If you start smoking it before the age of 15, you are 4 times more likely to develop a psychotic disorder by the time you are 26.
  
• People who have a family background of mental illness are more likely to develop schizophrenia if they use cannabis as well. People suffering from schizophrenia are likely to experience a worsening of symptoms.
  

(A couple of sources:
A well-informed 'head' website
Overview of MH issues from RSPsychiatrists
And have you watched the video I posted above? It really is interesting)

FWIW, I agree that the occasional bit of bush does most people no harm and can have therapeutic effects - but that seems to be ONLY the CBD/THC varieties, not skunk.

If you don't want to stop smoking cannabis, switch to a strain that isn't skunk.

[justbreathe]

Wow .... at lot of emotion out there about this subject.

Adults can of course choose what substances they want to put in their bodies and so long as its not having a negative effect on those around them, (though it probably is ) then that's up to them.

We are talking here about children with developing minds who are just finding their way in the world. Who are already dealing with the hormonal emotional rollercoaster of puberty. They are being seriously screwed up by this drug. They are destroying the relationships with the people they love and need , giving up on their education, getting into stealing and petty crime to feed their desire to smoke more.

Sure there'll be some who manage to deal with smoking and still succeed in life , but there are clearly many who can't and won't.

[flow4]

justbreathe: M-CAT...

Bear in mind it's a relatively new drug, and it's illegal, so a lot of the 'information' is actually anecdotal. I spoke to a drugs agency a couple of times, who said not much is yet known about it.

M-cat is not particularly a club drug. It was a 'legal high' until very recently, so easy to get hold of (sold as 'plant food'). It used to be very cheap, but it's got more expensive since it was made illegal. My DS (it turns out - I didn't know at the time) first had it when he was 13, given to him by 15yo friends. Round here it's very, very widely available and even 'nice middle class problem-free' kids have tried it.

People I've spoken to about it (including my DS and a couple of adult friends who have tried it) report a range of responses from "it's nice" to "yeah, it's alright" to "it doesn't do much for me" to "it's horrible stuff". I guess its quality varies widely because it is mixed differently. It is snorted.

While a person is actually taking it, it seems to be a euphoric - people have told me it's a 'party drug' like E. But its effects are very short-lived - just minutes. It is very, very compulsive and hard to moderate: once you start taking it, you can't stop until it has all run out, and if someone comes along and offers you more, you'll take it. I found out about my DS's m-cat use because he took £90's-worth in one evening, and gave himself sweats and palpitations that made him think he might die, so he woke me up for help. :(

It is also a dis-inhibitor, like alcohol. I have seen kids on it do very stupid things on train tracks and railway bridges; but more seriously, some kids have done illegal things like burgle houses and steal :(

Medically, it is a stimulant. It increases heart rate, pulse and often respiratory rate too. A couple of people do seem to have died taking it, from heart failure.

When a person is getting it out of their system the next day, their body reacts pretty much as it would to other nasty toxins: sweating, flushed cheeks and chest like a viral rash, mild diarrhoea or a dodgy tummy, a lot of sleeping... It's hard to tell this from alcohol or other drugs of course, but I picked up one or two 'tell-tale signs': most kids seem to get 'glassy eyes' and my son also gets flushed pink cheeks.. Users also smell really funny - sort of citrusy but unpleasant - like toilet cleaner and oranges. (My son used to come home early in the morning and jump straight into the shower to try to hide that). I also suspect dramatic mood swings and aggression following an m-cat 'binge' - but I have to admit I can't be sure whether that was the m-cat or the skunk or the combination of the two.

For my son, it was quite disastrous (one or the other or both). The compulsive/dis-inhibiting effects were worst. It was so compulsive/he got such a habit that he stole hundreds of pounds from me, and sold many of his possessions, and some of mine and his brothers. He also committed one burglary - not for the money, but taking an item from a friend's house because "it seemed like a good idea at the time". :( :( He was also short-fused and violent on a couple of occasions. I was also worried (though I knew it wasn't a big risk) of him dropping dead of a heart attack.

The reason I thought it might be worth making you aware is that my son's very worst behaviour coincided with heavy (more than weekly) m-cat use. Also, his skunk smoking increased while he was doing m-cat (I think because the two drugs 'balanced' each other in some respects) so the skunk-related problems were worse too. He was completely illogical and irrational when he was on it - and the kind of 'losing the plot' craziness you describe was characteristic. So it's worth considering...

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

Thanks for the reports - and we're really sorry that this got derailed.

We think we've dealt with the issue now - do please let us know if it recurs though.

MNHQ

[justbreathe]

Thanks flow4 That's really informative. I will ask Dc if he's heard of it and see what comes up in the conversation.
DC is very open about what he gets up to because he doesn't really give a f*ck what anyone thinks!
Sounds like you've had a tough ride. The description of crazy angry outbursts certainly fits...... DC lost the plot so much this summer when he got angry that he jumped in a swimming pool, under the cover, with all his clothes on and wrecked his mobile phone ! That was because we wouldn't give him 2 pounds when we knew he already had 40 quid ( a sum he didn't realise we knew he had) ! I think you are spot on about the come down,,, I've never thought of it before but most of his outbursts happen the day after he's stayed out at night.

[RowanMumsnet]

Will do, Maryz

We have gone a little bit further than deleting posts this time though

[flow4]

What Maryz says IS true, Rowan - it happens every time. Deleting posts (or even kicking people out of MN, which I don't much like as an idea) only deals with the immediate problem... Someone else will always come along to say something very similar :(

[Chubfuddler]

I fail to see how telling someone they seem to be a very unpleasant person is a personal attack. Ho hum.

[justbreathe]

Maryz , sorry to hear what you've been through with your Ds . I appreciate your efforts to clean up this thread ! Where is site stuff ? I am quite new to mumsnet .

I am finding all the support and help very comforting, its really helping ... thanks.

[wannabedomesticgoddess]

Im not sure why my post was deleted either...I really dont remember being nasty or breaking rules.

But ho hum.

[flow4]

Oh justbreathe, that kind of craziness sounds sadly familiar :(
I've had DS hiding inside the airing cupboard (aged 16, not 6)... Dismantling the PC and trying to hide the monitor because I'd confiscated his Playstation controller... Barricading himself into the house with brooms... Stealing £20 cos I refused him £1... Jumping out of the window and running off into the night when I said his friend couldn't stay... exhausted

[flow4]

Oh yes, I forgot about the holes in the doors and walls and windows. I've had a lot of other broken things too. After a while, some of it just gets to seem normal. :(



Our 'flash point' used to be Monday, morning or evening. Obviously my DS was doing more partying on a Saturday night than yours, Maryz Now he's back in college (3 weeks and counting :) ) it's been much calmer :)

[justbreathe]

I have broken panels in doors, broken doorframes , broken table and chairs. He seems to develop super human strength chucking things about then he'll storm off and hitch to his mates house, The scariest is when he loses it in the car.

He's never hit any of us but will bang his own head on the wall and punch himself. His voice is a major weapon and once he starts he will go on and on and on Sometimes he will curl in a ball and cry.

These fits can be triggered by the tiniest little thing.... I can't believe I never sussed it was a comedown, I was starting to think he has psychiatric problems or was bi-polar.... Ironically when he is stoned he's actually quite pleasant ! All my friends think he's a charming, articulate young man,

[LauraShigihara]

Ha, I'd forgotten about holey doors! Sadly, mine was either drugged or drunk or both, all through the week so we didn't have much in the way of come-down other than early mornings.

[justbreathe]

jesus , just had a phonecall from Ds to say he has lost his laptop. He was listening to music on it outside school and somehow managed to walk away , leave it in the parking and not think about it till hours later. So thats' another crisis he will get depressed and angry about