19 yr old daughter just failed first year at uni - studies terminated - what can we do? (long -sorry)!

[bebemoose]

My daughter was distraught and said she didnt know why she had failed as her marks were OK. Turns out when we (secretly) checked her emails that she had actually been warned that her grades and attendance were bad in January, and that if they didnt improve, her attendance would be taken into account when deciding whether to allow her to continue into the second year. I'm assuming that this is what has happened. I havent taken that up with her yet as she has been at work both days and I dont want to upset her and make her lose her job.

I want to see someone at the uni to discuss how her marks for the year only average 35%, which I dont wish to challenge, just have them explained. I have rung every day since we found out on Tuesday and been passed around from pillar to post, with no one being able to arrange for us to see the correct person.

We have just paid £600 rent for her first quarter in her accommodation for next year, and have absolutely no idea what to do with her if she cant carry on in uni as this is the one thing she really wanted to do. She was ill quite a lot this year - as in she often rang and said she wasnt well, but nothing she can substantiate as an excuse. She was diagnosed as dyslexic (through the uni) towards the end of term, so I was wondering whether to try mitigating circumstances, as she would have been given extra time to do the work if they had known at the beginning of the year - but this still doesnt excuse the poor attendance, so not sure if this is worthwhile pursuing.

She seems to have put it all to the back of her mind and is now (after the initial crying on Tuesday) all happiness and behaving as if nothing is wrong. (I'm sure she is just putting on a brave face as she woks on a checkout and has to be nice to customers.) I, by contrast, am crying, not able to sleep, think about it constantly and am basically completely stressed by it all.

I know we need to see her tutor to ask whether she has any options at that uni, like repeating the first year or transferring to another course, but I can't even get hold of her to book an appt (obviously because they are so busy).

I dont really know what I am asking here - maybe just how do I get through this - I was already very stressed as my older daughter is getting married in September and we have lots of organising for that, I run a Scout and a Guide uniform shop and do the website for my local cat charity. I also work almost full time and, although married, do not have a good relationship with my husband - think separate lives in the same house. And I'm so cross that this has ruined my older daughter's day - as on the same day she graduated with a first, and any celebrations were just cancelled.

Maybe instead of trying to see someone and get her back on another course and fighting this, we should just walk away and try again in another year or so, when she is older and wiser? I cant decide if that would be the less stressful route. I cant actually think straight. Sorry this is so long - I needed to put it all down.

andyflo, noone is suggesting the OP should not care for her adult child, only that she should care for her in appropriate ways which help her and do not hinder her

it is because some of us have experience of university life that we are pointing out that for a parent to turn up and insist to speak to her tutor because her dd can't be trusted to ask the right questions is not the way to ensure that the university let her stay on: it is probably the one most efficient way to ensure they are confirmed in their view that she is too immature to benefit from the course

there is a middle way between throwing the girl into the street and refusing to do her interviews for her

She is 19, she is an adult.

I don't understand the meeting a tutor to hand in work, I have been to 5 universities and they all had places to hand in where you got a reciept, or had electronic submission.

OK I understand you want to help her, but the uni will not speak to you, that would be a breach of data protection. If you really think she cannot sort this without your help then ask her to e-mail her tutor and say she wants her parents involved because she is not confident enough to self advocate.

I think it was unfair not to celebrate your other daughter's achievement. IF DD2 graduates will you celebrate?

Op, whatever happens it will be fine. I do believe like others that there is more to this story than she is telling and it really is her problem to sort.

Yes, 19 is still young! Maybe it's not the right decision for her to go back. I passed my first year at uni, much to my amazement but I left because I was miserable and hated it. My parents were very angry and it took me a while to sort myself out but I did and went back to uni 3 years later to do a nursing course. Best thing I ever did, leaving that course!

Not everyone is ready for uni at 18, doesn't mean she has no future. Just let her sort the mess out and face the consequences. We do all have to grow up sometime.

It is very difficult as the parent but I do keep pointing out to those who helicopter their DCs at school that it is doing them no favours. Once they get to university it isn't like school. They are adults and the university won't speak to you as a parent. You only know what your DC chooses to tell you.

I would say that she isn't ready for it-much the best thing to leave, sort herself out, find out what she really wants to do. It is never too late and you will probably all look back on it in future as a good thing.

Facing the consequences is part of the growing up process.

Some of this is getting a bit nasty.

I agree I raised my eyebrows at the secret email checking, but I don't know the OP or her DD.

There are loads of students and parents just like the OP and her DD (based on what's said here about the expectations each has of the other). Lots of students don't know they have to do this stuff themselves and lots of parents don't realize either. It's not right but I don't think anyone on this thread is accusing the OP of terrible things or trying to do anything but put her right about what university students are expected to do.

I'm sure her DD will be fine when it's all sorted out.

I don't think that it is getting nasty-it is stating facts.
The university will not discuss the student with the parent-fact.
Of course OP is worried-who wouldn't be? However, she can only advise and DD has to sort it out.

I would like to thank everybody for their advice on this thread, these are my observations since my last post:

Some people seem to think she may have been working whilst studying, this is not the case as she is a seasonal worker. She was working this week as term had ended so work has not interfered with her studies.

I haven't actually done anything but ring to try and get HER an appointment with the correct person as she was at work and could not get out of her shifts this week. I have never said I was just going to turn up and demand to talk to her tutor as this is clearly inappropriate, and I never expected anyone to talk to me on the phone about the situation. I think SHE needs to talk to the relevant person but would like to be present in order to support her, not to go in all guns blazing and asking all the questions myself. It's always good to have somebody with you in this type of meeting so that everything that's said can be remembered properly.

I agree that there may be more behind this and that we have only heard one side of the story which is exactly why we want to speak to someone. If it turns out that she has not attended and her marks were poor then we will accept the decision. However I would like some proof of this as my daughter says her attendance and marks were good. The only information the university has given is that she has failed and is terminated, one of her grades says 39% but is then listed at 35% (I know still a fail but that is not the point I am trying to make), I would like to know what causes this discrepancy and if this is a mistake then it's possible there could be others.

She is very independent normally, she runs her own life and is rarely at home. She found her own accommodation for the first year and for next year. She has done all her own shopping, cooking, cleaning, budgeting, problems with house etc. I haven't done any of this for her.

Some people have voiced concern that we checked her emails secretly. At the time of posting I didn't realise DD1 had been given permission and her username/password to do this. DD1 was looking for assignment information and weightings so she could create a spreadsheet and found the email from one of her tutors. This was her university account and not her personal one.

Some people still seem to think that my daughter is lying about having to hand her assignments into tutors and not to the faculty office, but I have already stated that I have seen the actual assignment documentations where this is clearly stated:
* Submission date:
Hand in your work with a courseware cover sheet to TUTOR NAME in ROOM on DATE between 9-12noon.*

My older daughter is surprised at this as she was at the same university in a different faculty and had to hand hers into the faculty office or online. I have also already said that she should have chased this up and not just let it go but we all make mistakes and I'm sure she wouldn't make this one again.

As for the marking scheme, this is probably not the correct terminology, it is more the weightings of each assignment in each module. This was given for a few assignments but not for others and makes it impossible to work out how well you are doing as, for example: If you attain a B in an assignment worth 10% and an F in the one worth 90% but you didn't know the weightings, you would not realise how badly you were doing as this could be the other way around, in which case you would be doing much better. They have also never been told what the grades stand for percentage-wise which makes it impossible to work out. Knowing the weightings is essential for time management. In an exam you need to know the marks being awarded for each question to know how long to spend on each answer and how much depth is expected. It is not rude to ask for this information, it should have been given.

Again my older daughter was surprised by this as in her department each module gave weightings and marking schemes for each assignment so they always knew what their deliverables were and how well they were doing. She was under the impression this was standard university procedure, as questions were asked about whether this information was given on end of module questionnaires.

None of them have a personal tutor on this course.

I didn't blame her for ruining my older daughters day, I blamed the situation which left us all very upset and not in the mood for celebrating, DD1 included. We will be celebrating shortly and my DD1 understands.

I know that she has many options if she cannot return in September. We have already had a discussion about this and she has put forward suggestions as to how SHE would like to proceed. I will be happy to support her in whatever she decides, should that be taking a year out and reapplying next year or changing direction completely. We now have an appointment for Monday and so will see what happens then.

Thank you again for your advice.

I totally agree with others that you need to leave this in the hands of your daughter. My university would have had no respect for any adult student who needed their mum holding their hand in a meeting - it will not strengthen her case at all if you are seen to be too involved. If anything, it makes her look too immature to be attending a course.

I fucked up on handing in an essay at university, I handed it direct to a tutor who assumed I'd also handed it in officially at the office as I should have done. Didn't get a mark for it and consequently got a 2.2 instead of scraping a 2.1. I fought my case, didn't win but it taught me something about following rules that are made to be followed and taking responsbility for myself. Would have been mortified for my mum to be involved to be honest.

Back off. Leave it up to her. Be there for her. She is an adult and she needs to learn that her actions have consequences.

Too much judgement going on in this thread.
Moving from school to university is a huge leap and some students on some degree courses have much less contact with tutors than others. Eg arts and humanities probably have about 8 contact hours a week whereas medical and science students may have 30 hours. This can make a huge difference in perceived levels of support and engagement between student and tutor. Only in Oxbridge and a very small number of other unis is there a very close relationship between student and tutor - so in many universities it's very easy for the less mature and unassertive student to feel like a very small cog in a huge impersonal machine. I have lectured to huge halls full of students who I have not known and will never know with no opportunity to engage with them on a one to one level, much as I would like to. Unfortunately very often this is the reality of university today.

I think that some of my fellow academics are being very harsh on the op.

mirry2 I went to such a university. The thing is that at some point you have to learn to take responsibility for yourself.

Nothing wrong with the OP supporting her daughter. But do you really think that a mum phoning the university to arrange meetings or whatever is on? I would find that incredibly strange.

And if the OP's daughter is at a university like that, maybe she'd be better off at a university where there is less academic pressure, more support from tutors and so on.

yellowraincoat yes I agree that it is not on for a tutor to discuss a student's work or problems with a parent. Unfortunately university support for students is very hit and miss. I don't think it's academic pressure that's the problem. I hate the argument that some universities expect less academically from students than others, however the care and support that enable students to do well is missing in some university faculties in my opinion.
Personally I think that in the first year, all tutors should be required to meet their individual students at least once a term - this should be timetabled in - and the meeting should be treated as a form of appraisal. Sadly this rarely happens and I know that many of my colleagues would rather gnaw off their arm. We have turned our universities into degree factories, where most people come out with degrees but little real understanding of what they've been taught. The same can be said of A evels but that's another story.

Sorry for my last post - I've gone off track from the op. The op shouldn't be contacting the university, however I can understand entirely why she feels so upset. Parents are now much more involved in their child's education than ever before especially as they now have a financial interest AND obligation.
If we treat parents as the benefactors in terms of underwriting fees and living costs for students (who are adults, after all), how can we criticise them for wanting to find out what's happened when their 'investment' goes belly up?

Moving from school to university is a huge leap and some students on some degree courses have much less contact with tutors than others. Eg arts and humanities probably have about 8 contact hours a week whereas medical and science students may have 30 hours. This can make a huge difference in perceived levels of support and engagement between student and tutor.

It is a huge leap-which is why parents need to have backed off by the 6th form-support and encourage but don't get overly involved.
I agree with mirry2. It is all very hard.

(Sorry, very late, but exotic, I meant the criticisms of people who were just trying to explain to the OP were a bit OTT. Not the other way around. That wasn't very clear.).

OP - Sorry to keep on at this, but saying 'they have never been told what grades stand for' and this information 'should have been given' - well, no, not really.

If this information isn't available, yes, that suggests a problem (and it does sound as if the course might be very disorganized - putting down 39 as 35 is really sloppy!). But it won't necessarily be 'given' - it'll be set out in a rule book somewhere, probably available online, probably a very long PDF document called something like 'Course Handbook'.

I'm saying this not to pester, just because if she goes back next year, it's useful to know.

Btw, I don't know how usual this is, but at several universities I know of, you're entitled to bring in someone from students support to a meeting like this. That might be an idea? Tricky given we're out of term, but it seems unlikely they'd let you in the meeting and I have to say, I think it's a bad idea even though you are right some support might be nice.

Good luck.

Writing to you as a current student:

She needs firstly to see if she can get a list of all abscenes and missed assignments and work out what happened... The not handing in assignment due to a missing tutor is bizzare - 95% of unis require you to hand in assignments online for plagarism checking which should also function as a way of checking the student has actually done the work even if a paper copy isnt handed in.. Did she try all options? Email, phone, school office, other tutors, sticking it under the door, leaving it on the tutor's desk with a note?

Secondly if she is ill she might get mitigating circumstances but will need normally to see a GP.. My uni will also take letters from the university counselling office as far as I'm aware.. If she's likely to be ill often she should see a disability advisor or similar for advice, they can make certain provisions.

I'm disabled myself - with dyspraxia and mental health issues and a number of chronic physical health problems.. Also support my quite severely disabled mum and sister. So I'm off quite a lot. Normally GP provides a letter which is OK - but disability advisor also wrote in advance to my tutors to explain, I also make a point of emailing tutors if I'm off for courtesy.. My mum did phone on my behalf once but I was in hospital and unable to phone! Not always a great idea to get involved as parents, it does help fotster independence if she's forced to do it alone. I do remember my friend in first year being accussed of plagarisim, she had to see the academic council and her parents were quite desperate to travel from home (800 miles I think!) to sort it out for her.. She took a chum to the meetings instead though, did all the talking herself and managed to sort it :) Better for your daughter in the long run if she can do similar.

Daughter also needs to sort out things re: the dyslexia.. Does her uni have a mentoring/buddying system? Usually covered by DSA, she might be able to have a weekly chat with an older student who'll check on everything. She'd be worth contacting the university to ask about disability support in general first and foremost.. my uni (Aberdeen) also has a Student Learning Service with a dyslexia support worker and "study skills" sessions which might help her?

If she really ends up stuck - or doesn't want to go back - she's not without options. She might find it helpful to see a career's advisor or similar but there will be things she can do - I know several people who dropped out or were asked to leave, several have gone into employment but at least two or three took a year out and then went back to uni to do a different degree.. One graduated on Friday with a first.. So as I said it's not as if it's the end of the world :)

Rent wise, she'll probably need to advertise for a new tenant - if it's a good room/flat, she shouldn't be waiting long for it to be snapped up!

Best of luck to you and daughter (and congrats on the other daughters' successes!)

Some people still seem to think that my daughter is lying about having to hand her assignments into tutors and not to the faculty office, but I have already stated that I have seen the actual assignment documentations where this is clearly stated:
Submission date:Hand in your work with a courseware cover sheet to TUTOR NAME in ROOM on DATE between 9-12noon.

Something is happening, maybe not lying but not understanding. The rules for submission will be the same accross the uni ie will be the same as dd1.

It is possible that DD2 should have submitted electronically as well? This would account for her not realising how badly she was doing.

I agree with LRDtheFeministDragon there is always a course handbook, it lists units/modules and how they are assessed and weightings.

Sorry I thought you were trying to get an appointment for yourself, not for DD2.

Hi OP ,just wondered how you got on with your meeting and if your dd is feeling a bit happier

Hello there...2017..my daughter is now 21...she is resitting her second yr again..as she failed 2 modules ..she is resitting just those 2...she failed the first assigment..she passed second with 90%..now the 3rd only got 34%..she has said uni says she can have this as a pass but her last two assigments need to be very high % in order to pass and finally get to her last yr....we know she can do this..she just spends her time in dream world of gaming..drawing and not doing uni work..last yr in may i found out she had wasted all her uni money on rubbish..gaming and nothing to show..we had bought her a car so she could come home when she wanted
.i would gv her money ..lots of it..our relationship has not been the same as last may june i told her i would gv her no more unless she works..she disnt work..until end of aug last yr..so4/5 wks of work..i gave her equal amounts of money that she had earnt(ues i am a soft touch)anyway this year we hoped all would be different but like i said not a lot of consistent focus..regarding uni...she said when she came home this easter she would wrk wrk wrk..so far she spent a week in bed playing xbox games..... its driving my husband n i mad..she seem so ungrateful ..never speaks unless she wants money or for her dad to pay for her car fuel..which he does..i would really like to know how after all this time what did you do....how did your daughter do?

I doubt the OP will back given its been 5 years...