19 yr old daughter just failed first year at uni - studies terminated - what can we do? (long -sorry)!

[bebemoose]

My daughter was distraught and said she didnt know why she had failed as her marks were OK. Turns out when we (secretly) checked her emails that she had actually been warned that her grades and attendance were bad in January, and that if they didnt improve, her attendance would be taken into account when deciding whether to allow her to continue into the second year. I'm assuming that this is what has happened. I havent taken that up with her yet as she has been at work both days and I dont want to upset her and make her lose her job.

I want to see someone at the uni to discuss how her marks for the year only average 35%, which I dont wish to challenge, just have them explained. I have rung every day since we found out on Tuesday and been passed around from pillar to post, with no one being able to arrange for us to see the correct person.

We have just paid £600 rent for her first quarter in her accommodation for next year, and have absolutely no idea what to do with her if she cant carry on in uni as this is the one thing she really wanted to do. She was ill quite a lot this year - as in she often rang and said she wasnt well, but nothing she can substantiate as an excuse. She was diagnosed as dyslexic (through the uni) towards the end of term, so I was wondering whether to try mitigating circumstances, as she would have been given extra time to do the work if they had known at the beginning of the year - but this still doesnt excuse the poor attendance, so not sure if this is worthwhile pursuing.

She seems to have put it all to the back of her mind and is now (after the initial crying on Tuesday) all happiness and behaving as if nothing is wrong. (I'm sure she is just putting on a brave face as she woks on a checkout and has to be nice to customers.) I, by contrast, am crying, not able to sleep, think about it constantly and am basically completely stressed by it all.

I know we need to see her tutor to ask whether she has any options at that uni, like repeating the first year or transferring to another course, but I can't even get hold of her to book an appt (obviously because they are so busy).

I dont really know what I am asking here - maybe just how do I get through this - I was already very stressed as my older daughter is getting married in September and we have lots of organising for that, I run a Scout and a Guide uniform shop and do the website for my local cat charity. I also work almost full time and, although married, do not have a good relationship with my husband - think separate lives in the same house. And I'm so cross that this has ruined my older daughter's day - as on the same day she graduated with a first, and any celebrations were just cancelled.

Maybe instead of trying to see someone and get her back on another course and fighting this, we should just walk away and try again in another year or so, when she is older and wiser? I cant decide if that would be the less stressful route. I cant actually think straight. Sorry this is so long - I needed to put it all down.

[TheSoggyBunny]

Wants to Olivias post.

[UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea]

... we could go together to discuss it. There is no way I could let her sort this out by herself - she wouldn't be brave enough or ask the right questions.

How on earth do you think she will cope with second and third year? It gets a lot more demanding you know. She will be expected to be confident and assertive in her dealings with tutors etc. There is good pastoral care at universities but they are treated like adults!

I'm sorry, I do have sympathy for both, but I think you need to cut the apron strings.

[bebemoose]

Chubfuddler - You need to let her sort this out herself. The fact you say "there is no way I could let her sort this out herself" speaks volumes.

What - that I love and support my daughter no matter what age she is? Yes she is technically an 'adult' but 18 is just an arbitrary number decided by the government - it doesnt mean she is capable of sorting out this sort of mess! Years ago she wouldnt have been an 'adult' until age 21!

Its also telling that you posted on teenagers - yes by the skin of her teeth she's a teen but she's over 18 and has to take some responsibility for herself.

I posted on teenagers as I tried 'education' and could only find forums up to secondary, although my older daughter did find one last night but I think she went into the site a different route. I know it wasnt the correct forum but didnt know where else to post.

Words fail me about just not handing in an assignment because she couldn't get hold of the tutor - something about that doesn't stack up I'm afraid. When I was at university all assignments had to be handed in to the faculty office. I believe many now accept submission to a secure email. Sounds like she's struggled to keep on top of her work and that's just an excuse.

Yes - I know this was stupid. She should have got hold of another tutor and asked for help. But all along she has found that when asking for help she has been ignored or rebuffed and I suppose she just let it go, not thinking of the consequences. The assignment had to be handed to the tutor within a three hour window - during which she also had a class - not to a secure email or the faculty office.

She has attended lectures and done her work - not been partying all the time - and as she was getting B's and C's for all her work (after the initial two assignments) she thougt she was doing all right. There are a couple of final papers we dont know the marks for. They have been denied access to a marking scheme with assignment weightings so they didnt know which ones to spend more time on. (The class actually asked for a marking scheme and were told that they couldnt have it as they would be 'chasing marks'.)

It may well be that the best thing for her will be to walk away and take a year out, but first of all she needs to discuss her options with the tutor - and it seems that this is almost impossible - no one answers their phone and we cant make an appt until they do. She has emailed her tutor but dont know if she will be in to uni to see it! My frustration is with the lack of support - there should be someone available to see the students that have failed and talk it through with them. Instead it seems that they have washed their hands of students who fail.

[bebemoose]

I'd just like to add that I saw the actual assignment that had to be handed in to the tutor and it clearly states at the bottom that it has to be handed to her at a certain time in a certain office - so she isnt lying about this!

[ruddynorah]

Your dd does not sound ready for university. I feel very sorry for your older daughter who did so well but had her celebrations cancelled and is now helping you post this saga on here.

You are there to support your adult daughter, not do everything for her.

[juneau]

I agree that you really need to step back a bit and let you daughter sort this out herself. She will continue to be helpless and unconfident if you keep taking over and managing everything for her. I realise it must be a hard habit to break, as her mother who has done everything for her since she was born, but if she really isn't capable of sorting this out herself then she should definitely take a year out to mull over her options and grow up a bit.

Perhaps a stint working overseas would be good - to develop her sense of herself a bit? She could au pair or work as a chalet girl (all the major ski companies start recruiting around now - so it's a good time to be looking). She sounds like a very typical 19-year-old who has never had to do anything for herself because you've always been there to do it for her. Please, do her a favour and make her stand on her own two feet. You can't live her life for her!

[saintlyjimjams]

Years ago she would have been working away from home age 14/15.

You really shouldn't sorting this out for her. Providing advice and a listening ear, and being her sounding board, yes, going along to meetings with tutors? No.

[cory]

"It may well be that the best thing for her will be to walk away and take a year out, but first of all she needs to discuss her options with the tutor - and it seems that this is almost impossible - no one answers their phone and we cant make an appt until they do. She has emailed her tutor but dont know if she will be in to uni to see it!"

The tutor will almost certainly be checking her emails wherever she happens to be- in a research library, at a foreign conference, attending training sessions. She is unlikely to be anywhere near her office phone at a time when there is so much work to be done elsewhere. I was in the office yesterday and it was like the Marie Celeste; yet I know all my colleagues are working flat out and reachable at the touch of a computer button. Phones are not a good means of communicating with a class of people who spend so much time in places where you are not allowed to use them.

"Yes she is technically an 'adult' but 18 is just an arbitrary number decided by the government - it doesnt mean she is capable of sorting out this sort of mess! Years ago she wouldnt have been an 'adult' until age 21!"

Yes and even more years ago she would never have come of age at all, as a woman: her father would have been responsible for her until she married. That doesn't mean she can use the lack of responsibilities of older days as an excuse for today.

The fact remains that a university is an adult environment; if you go there, you accept that.

Just as if you take a job, you accept whatever responsibilities come with that job- you don't expect to start the job and then be able to turn round and say "but that's unfair, I shouldn't have to take responsibilities at my age, and I need my mum to talk to the manager". If you've taken the job, you've accepted what it entails.

I quite agree that it does sound as if this university could do something about their submission system. We have a system where you submit electronically, but the faculty office is open at submission time and will deal with any queries. There should have been something similar for your dd. But if she hasn't even been in touch with the faculty office, she might not know.

The fact still remains that there are very few options open for her where she doesn't have to take adult responsibilities. So the more you nudge her in that direction, the more you will help her.

[juneau]

Plus, if I was a tutor I'd take a very dim view of any student who showed up for a meeting with their mother in tow, who then did all the talking.

[cory]

It is precisely because you love her that you have to support her in a way that helps rather than hinders. That means giving practical suggestions on what she should do, not trying to do it for her.

[mummytime]

I would talk to the Student Support services, especially if she is dyslexic, as that adds a lot to organisational skills. You could also talk to a GP if one has seen her for her ill health and stress.

My friends who work at Unis all complain a lot about having parents far more involved nowadays, but also accept that with the cost of going to Uni it is not just the student who has a vested interest. (Unlike my day you can't fail a year and go back to do 3 years of a degree free of charge and with a grant.)

It could also be that if she is working as well as studying it is all too much.

[HeadsShouldersKneesandToes]

Absolutely right that she needs to take responsibility and be a grownup. Under no circumstances should you allow her to move back in with you rent-free without structured activity work/volunteering etc. You can be emotionally supportive without babying her by sorting things out.

I think it might be better for her to walk away from this uni, take a year to grow up (perhaps volunteering overseas?) and giving Uni another go starting Oct 2013 with a bit more maturity, wisdom and self-knowledge.

I very nearly failed my first year - scraped a pass by 1 mark and was allowed to stay on. I never learned my lesson and ended up with a mediocre degree. I think I would have been happier in the long run if I had failed and been sent off to grow up nstead of continuing in the same vein for another 2 years.

[cory]

The more I think of it, the more I like juneau's suggestion of encouraging her to take a year working abroad. I worked abroad at this age and it did wonders for my confidence.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I think you have some excellent advice from people who've worked in this area, OP.

I just wanted to say: if she's dyslexic, organization might be a huge struggle. It's also quite tough being diagnosed this late, and she will no doubt find it really helps in the end, but it must have been a shock.

I don't think it helps to second-guess the university about mark schemes and why she got poor attendance. Your DD might well want to ask for a clear report of the issues, but you sound as if you're inclined to doubt or blame the university. I would say, I think it's quite rare for universities to kick students out if they don't have good reason - lots of places will give a student who fails the first year chances to retake exams, at the least. It seems surprising that a student who has just been diagnosed as dyslexic and who'd failed her exams would not be given a chance to retake, unless perhaps you've got wires crossed and something else is going on?

It is really scary having to organize yourself for the first time and lots of people find it much harder than they expected - but she needs to get better at doing it and at least at emailing her tutors on her own behalf so she can understand. This is not remotely as important as a two-day job, she needs to prioritize.

I hope she gets it sorted out.

[Pagwatch]

I agree with everyone else, in particular Corys posts.

My son has just compacted his first year at uni. The uni messed up his modules for next year. He has struggled to get a job. He is having to manage his cooking, cleaning, finances, etc. He has had to sort out off campus accommodation for next year.

Through all this he has talked to us and used us as a sounding board and for the advice we gladly give when he asks but he has done it all alone.

He is very proud of himself and gaining confidence by the day. Just like most of his peers.
If I suggested going to a meeting with the university with him he would be horrified. In fact I just asked him and he said 'jesus Christ, are you kidding?'

Let your daughter learn independence. Keeping her as a helpless child is not a gift. It just feels like one.

[babyheaves]

I know from working in the sector that Universities are loathed to fail students as each student is a loss of income.

The fact that your DD was failed suggests to me that you are not getting the full story from her with regards to her attendance and the like.

I know you say your elder child was OK with not celebrating her first, but for someone showing such concern for one of her children, I am very surprised that you wouldn't celebrate fully the success of one of your children because of the failure of the other.

The students who do well at Uni are the ones that are prepared to put in the work and effort themselves. Caring about your daughter doesn't mean doing it for her.

Oh, and reorganise some celebrations for your elder DC to show you care for them as well.

[juneau]

Oh, and reorganise some celebrations for your elder DC to show you care for them as well.

I agree. You're younger DD's failure shouldn't stop you celebrating the three years of hard work that your older DD put in. Reorganise for a later date when you feel you can celebrate her success.

[fluffyanimal]

I unfortunately have had a lot of experience smelling rats in students' stories about their attendance and submission of assessments. I smell rats here:
when she was sent the email about poor attendance she had not missed any lectures up to that point
The best explanation I can come up with is that maybe she was there but didn't sign the attendance register; or that she was late and thus marked as absent. Either way, her responsibility.
she went several times to the lecturer at the appointed place and time and could not find her
Sorry, I just don't buy it. She might have gone once and found the tutor nipped to the loo.
The assignment had to be handed to the tutor within a three hour window - during which she also had a class
Her responsibility to let the tutor know in advance and arrange an alternative time. But if she was at another class, did she really have time to go to the tutor "several times"?
But all along she has found that when asking for help she has been ignored or rebuffed
Entirely possible that each time she was told that the problems were of her own making and she just hasn't liked what she's heard.

In response to another of your comments:
My frustration is with the lack of support - there should be someone available to see the students that have failed and talk it through with them. Instead it seems that they have washed their hands of students who fail.
Your daughter didn't just fail - she failed and was debarred from resits because of poor attendance. For that kind of situation there will be a huge paper trail, evidencing letters/emails sent to your daughter advising her of her position at various points and inviting her to meetings to discuss it and/or setting deadlines by which performance/attendance must improve. Unis don't chuck students out lightly and not without bucketloads of evidence that would stand up in an appeal. It sounds to me like she's probably put her head in the sand. Has she been seeing her personal tutor or whatever they might call it at her uni - a tutor assigned to monitor her progress throughout her whole degree and act as the first point of contact for any pastoral difficulties.

[Lancelottie]

I do have some (in fact considerable) sympathy for the Op here, and am wondering what I do now to stop having a thread like this myself in three years' time.

OP, has your daughter been like this all the way through school, and have you perhaps become so used to picking up the pieces for her that you didn't even notice you were doing it?

DS needs huge support in organising anything (he has Aspergers, and a full statement), and left entirely to himself would not have handed a single GCSE assignment in on time. Concerted effort from staff and parents has pushed him to get everything done. But would it have been better to let him drift and fail, just to get the lesson home early? If not, when do you stand back?

Hope she works out what to do, with your support, OP.

[ZZZenAgain]

Are you getting anywhere with this? She has emailed the tutor, so eventually the tutor will see that email and respond. If you have only 20 days to deal with this (post further down the thread) and are running out of time, perhaps she needs to write a letter to the dean and get it off pronto asking if there is any possibility of resetting exams, not listing every problem but concentrating on the dsylexia. Only do this if she is seriously willing and able (time-wise) to put in a real effort to swot.

Maybe she was a bit lost in the university system and needs a more structured course. I realise you are very upset about this atm and want to first see if she can get back on the university course. If not, is there something similar to what she was studying which she could pursue in a different environment?

[Hopefullyrecovering]

I agree with the consensus, which can be summarised as:

Your DD didn't do the work and has to face up to the consequences

BUT

This isn't the end of the world, though it might feel like it

AND

She needs to sort this one out herself - she's an adult!

[TheSpokenNerd]

OP I was VERY like your DD and it took me until I was 23 to get it together with no parental help and get myself onto a suitable course....my parents left me to it...I bumbled along in crappy jobs and then got it together. Your DD will too...let her sort this out...it will be the best thing for her.

[MrClaypole]

Another person here to confirm that universities do not chuck people out lightly.

I have recently completed my MA and there were several students who completely took this piss in terms of attendance, effort and handing work in on time. They were all kept on the course bar 2.

Their behaviour impacted on the other students as there was a lot of group work which these students did not put their full effort into hence lower marks for the whole group. Because they turned up late and missed things, the lecturers were spending time chasing and supporting the piss takers when they should have been working more with those students who were making an effort.

The 2 that got booted off were repeatedly warned - verbally and in writing- of what they had/not done and the consequences of not improving. They were offered help and support from student services/counsellors and tutors. My uni had a very clear process that must be followed when dealing with poor performance from a student, I'm sure this is the case at most/all unis.

I think your daughter is not telling you the full story here. She needs to learn from this experience and take responsibility for her failure, not blame it on the uni staff which is what she seems to be doing at the moment.

Uni is not just about getting a paper certificate, it is about learning life skills and taking responsibility for your actions as you are expected to do in the world of work.

[cory]

I wouldn't go directly from the tutor to the dean- there will be several people in between better placed to deal with this.

Let her keep emailing the tutor, but also Student Services, the Special Cases tutor, Pastoral Support officer, convenor of her programme, head of department even.

[cory]

Lancelottie, I too can sympathise, especially as I have a ds who might well turn out similar to the OPs dd.

I think my take is that I will help him to get organised to get through GCSEs as that is a compulsory thing that everybody has to do and so he'll have to muddle through somehow. But not everybody has to go to university and if he can't cope with the kind of independence it requires, then he'd be better off not going.

In the case of a known SN, such as Aspergers, the university will have support in place, but if the student cannot access the support without the help of a parent, then imho it is totally unrealistic to believe that they will cope with other aspects of university life.

I think if it got to that stage, I would just have to accept that that was it- just as I will have to accept that there are a large number of jobs dd cannot take because they demand a level of mobility and physical fitness that she is unlikely to achieve.

But I would hope that the Sixth Form years could be spent in gradually building up independence: there is a big difference between a 16yo and a 19yo.