Throw him out, have him arrested, or hang on in there?

[flow4]

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of throwing their child out or having them arrested? I'm pretty much at that point with my 16 (nearly 17) yo son, and obviously it's not an every-day situation...

Over a 5 week period at Christmas/new year he gained access to my savings and stole £850. He spent it mostly on skunk and m-cat (drugs). He finally got guilty, confessed, said he was sorry, and promised to pay it back. He doesn't have a job, but for a few weeks he did chores to begin to pay it off.

Then I got careless and he stole £20. And he stopped doing his chores. And he stopped going to college... Then he seemed to turn a corner and went back to college last week...

Then this morning he came in from a night of partying, off his face and smelling of mcat. He crashed out and slept until about 20 mins ago. But a couple of hours ago I unlocked my cash box (one of a few desperate measures) to go pay a builder, and found he has stolen another £50 from me.

He knows what he is doing is wrong, but he's doing it anyway. He refused counselling or help from a drugs agency. I'm a single parent with limited support. He is bigger and stronger than me, and often bolshy and scary, tho rarely actually violent.

I'm very uncertain about what to do for the best. I'm tempted to have him arrested, but I can't imagine that a criminal record ever helps anyone. I do not want to live like this, but am aware that if I throw him out he will go to sleep on the sofas of exactly the same teens he takes drugs with. And I imagine things will get rapidly much worse for him.

On the other hand, every moral instinct I have says he shouldn't 'get away' with behaving like this. And I am not at all a natural doormat, but I am totally out of ideas and very nearly out of strength. I am also very conscious of how unfair and stressful it is for my youngest son, as well as me.

Anyone got any experience or wisdom here,? Your thoughts would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[Divorcedand2teenDDs]

I think the text sounds conciliatory... But there again he's tried to manipulate you before. He probably doesn't know himself what be wants or is going to do.
You sound like a fabulous person and mother. I'd only suggest taking time, moving slowly and calmly, trying to apply some logic and structure (those absolute no nos) to at least slow down the see-sawing which seems inevitable moving forward. You and your other son deserve it to at least slow down a bit. Good luck and be proud of surviving... bruised but still hanging in there... Well done.

[flow4]

It's hard to do the list, because as I try, I am realising I personally don't want him back, or not unless he changed back into the boy he was before - which of course isn't going to happen. And my younger son has said he doesn't want him back. So my motivation for even considering it is that it would be the best option for him... But that means I have to weigh the well-being and preferences of myself and ds2 against his, and since he isn't likely to be a reformed character, we lose :(

Here's my first go at the list - my 'bottom line'. It's 'must dos' as well as 'no-nos'. I know it includes some impossible, unachievable things... I just need to say them... I know I'll have to give some of them up, but I don't want to, so I'm at least expressing them first...

• No violence or threats of violence, against people or property.
  
• No stealing
  
• No drugs in the house
  
• Must go to college, without fail.
  
• Must find something else constructive to do with at least one of the other weekdays (his so-called full-time course only runs Mon, Tues, Weds 8:30-10:30. So actually, my bottom line is that he must be in college/work.volunteering/something constructive at least 4 days per week)
  
• Must access support/counselling from a drugs agency (I can't make him go of course)
  
• Not allowed in the house if I am not here (this one is impractical)
  
• No friends in the house if I am not here (how would I know? I wouldn't. Which is why I want to lock HIM out too right now)
  

There are all sorts of other things that used to be in my 'bottom line' (like not swearing at me, not eating more than his share of the treats, doing jobs/chores/helping out at home, doing constructive activities, coming on family trips, etc... that I have already given up :( )

There are a couple of other 'biggies' for me that I need to find solutions to, that aren't rules for him, but need resolving...

• Money. I don't want to give him ANY while he's using - but then he steals. I want to tie it to chores - but then he doesn't do them. I don't want to give him any if he swears at me and abuses me. I have to give him some, or he can't get to college. It causes massive, massive conflict, because he thinks I am a 'tight arse', and I think of it as a privilege not an entitlement.
  

• Going away/getting a break. I haven't had a break from him for soooo long. I feel I need respite right now, but I can't see any way of getting it. Since I can't get him to agree to go anywhere willingly, and I don't trust him home alone, I am tempted to lock him out of the house and just GO for a couple of nights occasionally. After all, he has survived the past 4 nights exactly like that... But there isn't anyway to do this practically (he could/would almost certainly just refuse to go) and I am not prepared to 'trick' him out.
  

I think one of my biggest, biggest fears in this situation is that if I let him back in, I will never be able to get him out again. He is out now, and I don't really want him in, so my instincts tell me to keep him out. Oh god. How horrible. I think he is right to pick up that I don't love him any more... Or at least not at the moment...

Sorry, that's all a bit rambling. I hope someone will still be able to focus on the practical 'rules'/bottom line and help me work those out...

Thanks everyone :)

[ragged]

I don't trust him, he's lying to get what he wants (said he slept out when he hadn't). Sorry, you can't live with him, this chaos is not fair on the 12yo if nothing else. Kicking him out probably is better much than getting him arrested, so I would put it to him that these are his choices. HA or police or nothing.

My mother battled with my brothers' drug addictions for years and they never really hit bottom until she resorted to getting police involved. She didn't regret that at all in long run, however hard it was initially.

[flow4]

You've missed a bit of the story ragged - I've already involved the police after he smashed things up on Weds and he was arrested. I haven't had him back home since. Social services refused to accommodate him and passed on a message via the police telling me I had to. I said I couldn't, under the circumstances, so he has been sofa-surfing since. Now I need to decide on a longer-term 'solution'...

[Divorcedand2teenDDs]

Keep him out for now. Having to face the reality of his situation for longer may help him realise he has to take more responsibility. Don't rush into anything. Your instinct to not want him in your home is something you shouldn't ignore and you and your other son need respite, as you have rightly recognised.
Maybe you should wait for him to initiate further contact/negotiations and use the time to rest and work on developing your 'bottom lines'. He has put himself in much more dangerous and damaging situations previously than you are now putting him in by not allowing him back, so this is not something you should feel any guilt for. I know parenting doesn't feel like that, but right now you have to look after yourself and ds2 and give him the space and time to sort himself out. Sadly you can't and shouldn't try to sort it for him.
Keep your chin up. Right now must feel shit. But right now doesn't last forever.

[flow4]

Well, I was about 90% sure I wouldn't when I woke up this morning, but I have let him back in tonight.

He initiated contact, and he waited all afternoon when I couldn't talk (I was out with friends), and then told me he would "do anything to be allowed back", and came round for a conversation after I'd talked to my younger son about how he felt, and 'tho I made clear "I'm-making-no-promises".

So, now... I have told him I/we are not at all sure about having him back. We have told him how he has been making us feel. I have set out some of the 'bottom line' but told him I am still working some things out. He agreed to everything. I agreed I would let him stay tonight and take things one day at a time.

We shall see.

He did argue a bit about some things, including the fact that he 'doesn't like work'. I said I hoped eventually he will find something he does like, but meanwhile, that's not terribly important: whether he likes it or not, he has to do something constructive at least 4 days per week.

If anyone has any suggestions about constructive things that might engage a bright, disengaged boy who says he's not interested in anything, please let me know! The Easter hols will be a real challenge...

His little bro is OK with him being here on the terms we've agreed, for now. I have also talked to him about counselling :( cos I think it might be useful for him.

It's bloody hard. I don't know whether it's the right thing to have done. It's just the risks for him if I kick him out seem greater than the risks for us if he stays. At the moment.

[ragged]

Sorry, I thought you said something about taking him to the housing office, so there was a social housing option, he is only 16, after all (?)

[Mutteroo]

Seven weeks ago, I had yet another major hullabaloo with my 18-year-old DD. Yes she's 2 years older than your son, flow4, but her 16-year-old brother is more mature than she is! Like you I adore my kids in spite of any bad behaviour; I don't have to put up with acts of violence though and neither do you.

My daughter lived away from home for 8 nights and during that time DH and I found our backbones. We wrote a contract (Maryz you talk a lot of sense) and when we finally talked with our DD after 7 nights away, we told her what was expected of her. She balked at these expectations and her attitude stank, so she was told we would not allow her home until she agreed to abide by our rules. 24 hours later she was ready. In general, our DD has behaved well. She's had her moments and has suffered the consequences. And to be honest I quite like the stronger, more assertive me!

Stay strong - that's the best bit of advise I can offer you. In our case, we pandered to our daughter too much and since we stopped financially supporting her lack of effort at college, she's had to change. She has two job interviews this week and is leaving college this summer. The effort to find a job will continue until she succeeds and it's amazing how home life feels more relaxed since that awful night seven weeks ago. This could be the making of our DD and I don't care what people think of me/DH and our choices. They don't live in our house and they haven't had to put up being stolen from, been assaulted or made to feel physically ill because of her behaviour.

Your son knows how much you love him, staying strong for him can only help you all in the long run. Wobbles cn be smoothed out by talking on here or with understanding friends. Some friends won't understand and that's ok as long as you don't allow other peoples opinions to affect you and your choices.

Off my soapbox now and thinking of you. It is not easy.

[Paulo1]

Great posts Mutteroo and of course Maryz. I am amazed at the time and trouble you take to post of this forum. OP my thoughts are with you as are my best wishes

[Brightspark1]

Just had a PC from the Youth intervention team to discuss DD's arrest. The idea is that she won't get a caution or anything, will have to do some sort of community service, gardening for old ladies, that sort of thing. It sounds a more constructive way of dealing with the situation, especially as she is very remorseful and feels she should be punished, which I agree with but as long as she is handled sensitively as she is still in a fragile state. It might be worth having a chat with your local police to see if there is anything similar in your area.
Though it sounds like he may have given you a window of opportunity to build bridges here, especially as you have set clear ground rules.. It may work and I hope for your sake that it does, but if it doesn't you will at least know that you have done everything you could. I tried my hardest with DD when she was at home, and I can't honestly think of anything else I could have done or done differently over the past six months. It's not much , but I'm finding that some comfort to hold on to. I sincerely hope that it goes well for you.

[Divorcedand2teenDDs]

I really hope it's going as well as possible. Good luck

[saintlyjimjams]

Flow - there are usually local volunteer agencies that can match people to projects. If you could find something physically active that attracted younger people it might flick some sort of switch for him (of course it might not). I tend to say a slightly glib 'get these kids horse riding or surfing' or something of that sort. But although it sounds a bit daft I think in both cases he would meet people with a strong work ethic, would be physically tired and would be challenged (both activities can be scary). There will be other things along those lines (climbing?) , but something like that might help. I doubt he would be keen to try it, but if he respects your contract he might give it a go.

There are usually quite a few volunteer opportunities with horses, and they can be good because a) they can be quite scary and you really can't bully a horse and b) people who work with horses tend to be hard workers and not tolerate any shirking and very disciplined.

I don't know, it might be pie in the sky, and of course he might just refuse to go, but I have heard of instances where both those activities have made a difference in the lives of people heading off the rails so thought I would mention them.

It sounds terribly difficult.

[saintlyjimjams]

And there are a more and more horse programs that work with young offenders/people heading that way. It might be worth asking SS whether there's anything in your area as they can refer if there is.

[suburbophobe]

Sorry, haven't read the whole thread.

BUT you need to lock/hide your money better.

And stop cooking/cleaning/running around after him.

Apart from a bit of blow, I will not tolerate anything else in the house where my son is concerned

[suburbophobe]

SP by the way.

[flow4]

I'm ok thanks Maryz - exhausted and a bit shell-shocked, but hanging on in there.

Thanks to those of you who have empathised and made constructive suggestions :)

My son has been arrested and charged and will be issued with a Final Warning next week. So far, it feels like the right thing to have done: he has mostly been on his best behaviour, and it has been a relief for me to have some input from other people - the officer from the Youth Offending Team was fantastic and there may be some further support... She has referred him for an assessment by a drugs worker... But also perhaps from Connexions for my son to see if he can get a part-time job, and for my younger son to get some counselling.

We had a bumpy bit early on in the week where he talked about me 'getting him arrested' and I felt like chucking him out there and then for blaming me instead of taking responsibility for his own actions. I argued that he had got himself arrested; and we uncovered a fairly fundamental moral difference: he said mums ought to support their kids and families ought to support each other "no matter what" and said he would never call the police on me, even if I murdered someone! I explained my morals were different, and I believed it was my job to help him be the best person he can be - which includes challenging bad behaviour, not supporting it. I think he got that, in the end. He stopped seeming so angry at me, anyway, and has stuck to agreements, and done his first full week at college since before Christmas.

We had a 'family meeting' last night, and we all agreed that if my eldest can keep it up, we'll all be happy for him to continue living here. He said it hadn't been difficult to behave better, so he was confident he could keep it up. He came home from a friend's house last night cos people started getting wrecked - which is a good sign.

It's early days tho... And I'm not counting chickens...

[therewasatime]

I thought I could deal with a troubled teen myself, he went on to rape his siblings.

Get help!

[therewasatime]

sorry, I missed page 2, glad things are improving slowly.

[flow4]

Indeed. And he and I are both also pretty sure I will throw him out if he is violent, or steals, or stops going to college, or gets back into the habit of dossing most of his time... And he wants to stay here, and now realises very clearly there are conditions to that...

[flow4]

Oh that sounds grim, therewasatime... I hope things are better for you now.

[therewasatime]

Our lives as a living hell - I wish I had sought help instead of feeling that it would be letting him down.

I know what you have done is hard - but believe me - it was the right thing to do xxx