Fur - yes or no?

[MrsCampbellBlack]

Interesting article about fur in September vogue. Seems its becoming popular again and I just wondered what people's views were on here?

Personally I'd wear shearling as not sure that's very different to leather (is it??) but wouldn't wear real fur.

So does anyone wear real fur?

[mystaplerisevil]

fgs no wearing fur makes you look like a twat

why are we reverting back to the 1950 on mn these days?

[Panzee]

I think vintage has to be older than you. Obviously a moveable feast!

[EasterHoliday]

exotics treated well? what like the snakes who are pumped full of water so that they swell like balloons while alive to stretch the skin and can therefore be more carefully flayed, alive, to make the leather more supple? Well cheers LVMH for keeping them in a nice glass case up until that point

[sansucre]

Further to a comment a poster made upthread about leather being a by-product of the beef industry, for the most part, it isn't. In fact, a lot of leather used for clothing, shoes, handbags and gloves isn't a by product of the meat industry at all. Indeed, it's worth noting that kid (baby goat) leather or calf skin is used to make many leather accessories from, and these animals are bred for their hides.

And what about leather upholstery too? Again, the more expensive the product, the chances are the skin will come from an animal that's been bred for its hide.

Most cheap 'fast fashion' brands use something called 'split skin' which is pig skin that's been split in two. It's cheap, nasty and doesn't last. It also comes from animals that haven't been raised well, who have mostly been reared intensively for their meat. On the other hand, the brands who sell accessories and handbags use skis from animals that have been treated well, who have been raised properly and killed with as little harm to the animal as possible. This way, the skins are in better condition, and contain less stress markings. PETA and other such organisations are highly selective with the truth, and it's worth remembering this.)

Oh, and as for 'exotic skins' such as Ostrich, Alligator etc. etc. houses like Louis Vuitton and Hermes (to name just a few) invest heavily in the farms which breed the animals, and the animals are treated well, at great cost, something that is reflected in the price.

And this is why I try not to buy cheap leather goods, particularly those made in China, as I know the animals haven't been treated well. And all I want from an animal I eat, or one I wear is that it's led a well-cared for and happy life.

Anyway, onto fur -

With regards to fur, I'd probably not buy new (mostly because I can't afford to) but I have no issue buying vintage fur. In fact, for me, I'd rather wear real fur than fake fur, which I think its ugly, both to look at and feel. I also don't like the way its made as it uses process and materials that are damaging to the environment, as a poster has mentioned earlier up thread.

To the poster asking about vintage -
I think for clothing, it has to be at least 30+ years old (possibly even more) to considered vintage. (I have to confess that when I spy something a season old from a high street store on ebay listed as vintage, I fall about laughing, because it's not. (I think Patsy in Ab Fab made a joke about how one day, clothing coming back from the dry cleaners will be considered vintage.. I think we're pretty much there.)

[guineapiglet]

No- never.

If we were living in an arctic or antarctic culture which depended on hunter gathering, fair enough. But we don't.

There are plenty of alternatives so that animals do not have to suffer so we can be warm.

Fur coats belong to the lovely animals created to wear them. Full stop.
The only 'skin' I wear is my lovely thermal Jack Wolfskin coat - an animal's life is not necessary to keep warm. And, who on earth thinks it 'looks' cool - those trying to sell them probably.

[Rooners]

I still feel uncomfortable about leather and sheepskin and so on. (and meat, dairy etc)

Our society makes it very hard to avoid these things, but very easy to avoid fur.

I would NEVER buy new fur. I have an old coat which has a fur collar, I think it's real but the coat cost £4 in a charity shop many years ago and I decided to keep it as the money went to charity and the animal is long dead. It's no longer supporting the fur trade, if that makes any sense.

I binned a leather coat once in a fit of veganism and tbh it was just a waste really. Poor animal died for nothing, I suppose.

I also have a few fur hats etc that were my grandmother's.

[Lanceolate]

No. Never.

[RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie]

No. Absolutely no.

[Branleuse]

I definitely would vintage fur, but i wouldnt buy it new

You cant beat real fur or sheepskin for warmth

[sameoldIggi]

The species could be culled by the government however. Choosing to dress up in their skins is not the ethical part.

[AmandaHoldenmigroin]

Also live in N. America. The Canada Goose jackets are very popular.

[slug]

I think you'll find, sameoldIggi, if you read the link, that possum fur is ethical in that the fur industry in NZ is responsible for keeping down the population of an imported species that does untold damage to the unique forests and wildlife of NZ. It's at the forefront of saving several species from extinction.

During the 80's when the anti fur lobby gained ground, the fur industry in NZ shriveled as it became uneconomic to trap. The net result of this was two things. 1. The possum population boomed resulting in the die off of large swathes of native forest (they eat the growing tips of the palms and tree ferns) and several birds teetered on the edge of extinction (the kiwi being one of them) and 2. The only option the govt had left was to institute poison drops to try and control the population. The problem with these is it's impossible to target exactly who or what will eat the bait. So along with poisoned possums you also had poisoned cats, birds and the occasional child, not to mention the birds of prey that feasted on the poisoned possums themselves and promptly died too.

It's a real problem when an imported species with no natural predators is allowed to get out of control. The first time I took DH to NZ we were about an hour out of Auckland when he got up the courage to ask if we deliberately drove over possums. The answer is 'yes' it's almost a national duty. We know that possums and bunnies, however cute and fluffy they may look, represent a major threat to what makes NZ unique.

[sameoldIggi]

I think "ethical fur" must be an oxymoron.

[70isaLimitNotaTarget]

worm should be worn

[70isaLimitNotaTarget]

every year the fashion industry promotes fur but i don't think i ever see fur being worm- except on older ladies.

excuse the dodgy typing, i'm cuddling one of my 2 fur coats

they squeak

[CruCru]

Isn't a really high end fur coat at least £10k? There may be ethical issues but going out with that on your back seems a bit dangerous. Plus it relies on you wearing it only to places with a proper cloakroom. Going round shops with a full length fur coat would get very heavy.

[BadgersRetreat]

I have a Canada Goose winter coat with a prairie fox (coyote) hood trim. I love it. If you do enough research, you find that prairie fox is fair game for the Eskimos, and that by buying Canada Goose (and similar brands), you are supporting an indigenous lifestyle.


^ that's good to know because i am buying one for this winter. Fed up of freezing to death every year. If i can support our aboriginal peoples then so much the better.

I live in Canada and fur is not a big deal here, from what i can tell. See a fair bit of it around.

[slug]

Possum from New Zealand is ethical fur. They are an imported species who do immense harm to the unique NZ wildlife and fauna. The fur industry keeps the numbers down and saves the birds/trees into the bargain.

Plus it's snuggly and warm. What's not to like? I lust after one of these

[bunnymother]

I was talking to a woman at a wedding whose family sells fur, and she said something similar about the hierarchy of fur. Morally, I would actually buy and wear fur. Practically, the upkeep and maintenance of a fur coat sounds far too expensive. Specialist cleaning, specialist storage etc etc etc. So, I will probably only ever buy fake fur. Good fake fur. Not the nasty crinkly stuff that seems to shoot out electric sparks.

[dexter73]

How old does a coat have to be before it is classed as vintage? 10 years, 40 years?

[Naebother]

No.

[MrsCampbellBlack]

I re-read the article last night, and the writer argued that there is almost a heirarchy of furs in terms of animal welfare. So mink farmed in Denmark will have been treated well but farmed fox is a different matter. And yes, fur from China should be avoided as so little is known about animal welfare standards.

And in Denmark the animals aren't skinned alive - they were either gassed or electrocuted. Mink the former.

Its interesting reading everyone's comments. And Liberty - I agree - its the furs that really look like fur that creep me out most.

[AmandaHoldenmigroin]

No from me. I have issues with the way they are killed. I don't see why it should make a difference that the fur is vintage. Lots of people where I live wear fur (in the collars mostly). They do not have an issue with it. each to their own, I suppose.

[Tubemole1]

No, not for me.

I sometimes work in Knightsbridge and every Saturday a guy protests outside Harrods objecting to their fur dept.

I wear leather because I eat beef. But I can't face eating a fox, or a mink. I am in turmoil about rabbit, as I like eating rabbit, and then my views don't sit nicely with me.

[CointreauVersial]

I was at a market in a local town the other week, and there was a market stall selling vintage furs. Hundreds of coats and jackets. Lots of people browsing, no-one batting an eyelid - I couldn't help thinking that reactions to such a stall would have been very different 20 years ago. There is definitely a softening of the anti-fur stance.

As for me, well, the vintage furs were lovely, but not "me" really. I had a good stroke, though...