DFs daughter

[roking]

Not really sure what I'm looking for here. I'm just running out of patience. Today has been particularly bad which is what has prompted me to post

I've been with my fiancé for 5 years now. We moved in together around 3 years ago. I have a 13yo daughter from a previous relationship and he has 2 daughters from his marriage who are 12 and 7. We have the girls 50/50 and would be very happy if it wasn't for his eldest daughter. There are absolutely no problems with the little one. She is an absolute angel. She is kind, funny, helpful and generally a joy to have around.

His eldest, is the complete opposite of her sister. She goes out of her way to cause trouble and wind people up. Everything has to be her way or life isn't worth living for the people around her.

She is very competitive with my daughter, everything they do is a competition and she always has to "win". She does things like counting the likes they have on Tiktok/Instagram and creates new accounts to like all her own posts to make sure she has more. She creates accounts dedicated to her pets to do this, she even has an Instagram account for her grandmas dog (I'm not joking) simply so she can like all her own posts. She takes and hides my daughters things all the time, then they miraculously reappear with a completely fabricated elaborate story of how she "found" them. Everything my daughter gets she has something bad to say about it, or knows someone who has the same thing and said it was rubbish

She also constantly deliberately breaks tings that belong to her sister and my daughter

She is horrible to her little sister. She screams and shouts at her 24/7. She constantly tells her she is stupid and everything she says is wrong. Everytime they pass each other she hits, kicks or punches her but if her sister dares to retaliate she screams the place down that her little sister is bullying her

She buts in when anyone is talking and constantly talks over people because she thinks she is right all the time. If you tell her to be quiet she just keeps taking, or gets louder and louder until you can't hear yourself think.

She thinks she has the right to make all the decisions in our house, from what we are eating, to what films we watch or who sits where in the car. She even tries to control what order people have a bath in and will have a major strop when she is told she doesn't get to make those decisions. It's exhausting

She has always been like this but is getting worse. I have tried everything to sort this out. I have spoken to her to see how she was feeling. It didn't help. I have put time aside each week to take her places one on one. It didn't help. I have taken her and my daughter to get nails/make up done while the little one went swimming with her dad. It didn't help. Her dad has spent untold amounts of time with her just the 2 of them. It didn't help.

My fiancé won't do anything about it. He says it's just the way she is but he has always favoured his eldest over her little sister and refuses to see any bad in her. it's causing major issues in our house and it can't continue. I'm at the end of my tether, my daughter is at breaking point and the little one said to me today that she wishes she could just have one day where her sister wasn't there so that no one would hit her or shout at her 😔 She is 7 years old! She should not be feeling like that

Any ideas?

My Sil family was like this. Older boy allowed for years to intimidate and bully the younger one. Dad emotionally checked out and mum ignoring or seeing everything from the perspective of the older child. Now as young adults, the younger says he can't forgive his parents or brother, refuses therapy and they never spend time as a family. It's really sad.

I would be having words with your Df about how affecting it is for your dd and his younger dd and I would also tell him if he doesn't man up and deal with it, dsd1 isnt welcome to stay when dsd2 is staying and will have to come alone because she is being a horrible child and both the girls dont deserve to be treated that way.

Sorry if it sounds harsh but she needs to learn to grow up before she does something to someone in school (when they go back) and they will retaliate to her.. and then it could either be she calms down or gets worse and goes down the wrong path.

Good luck op I hope everything works out with you.

Ok, why don't you have them on separate days? That will give her at least a break on the weekends...

Those poor girls. Does she have incidents of bullying others at school? You sound great and working with their dm is great. Does your df not see that you, their dm, both other girls all say it yet he believes her? Surely he sees some of it? And would want to try and resolve/make it better, seems worrying if he doesn't, she will only get worse.

Thank you so much for all the replies. Was half expecting to be told it was all my fault 🙈

Leaving is not an option. Apart from DSD1s behaviour recently, we have a very good life and are all very happy together. Leaving would only punish me, my DD and DSD2. DD would be devastated to lose my DF and DSD2 and why should DSD2 lose her family? She can't remember a time without me and DD. She wasn't even 2 when I met my DF. I'm not giving up on my family because one child can't behave. She has always had these tendencies, but it has only really escalated in the past few months to the point we are at now. I want to find a way to stop it before it gets any worse.

I also thought about cameras, but other posters are right. Why should I need to prove it when we know it's her that's doing it. It's not fair on my DD or DSD2 to have to start living under a microscope because of DSD1

@celeriacacaca I don't really have an issue with her having Instagram, literally all the kids round here have a page, all their friends have it. The little one even has one. We monitor it, and apart from her setting up new accounts to like her own posts, there has never been an issue with social media. She follows pages about her interests and it's been quite a positive thing for her.

@theteenageyears my DDs dad is more like a friend to her. He's a musician in a band and on tour all the time. She has a good relationship with him, he comes and takes her out, shopping or for dinner and things and they FaceTime a lot but he's not a typical "dad" she has never stayed over night with him or anything. Shes very proud of him with his music and is happy with the relationship they have. She has never known it to be any different

@247sylviaplath you have basically summed up exactly how I feel. I dont want my DD and DSD2 to see her getting away with this and thinking it's the way forward -and at the same time, I dont want to punish them for her behaviour and have them start to resent her

@lolliloo1234 we are going to try the love bombing.

I had it out with my DF again last night (well at 2am when I was sure the girls were asleep). He admitted he knows what she's doing but feels without proof we can punish her. I said we can't go on like this as it's beyond unfair on everyone else and their mum is at breaking point with her. he agreed.

He said he sticks up for her because he feels like everyone is down on her all the time. He said he feels like all people ever say to her is "shut up" "be quiet" "stop that" "stop being annoying" and no one ever reacts positively towards her.

He feels like her personality is being merged with the bad behaviour and people can't separate them. He said even his mum (her gran) has absolutely no time for her, which he is right about. His mum has more of a relationship with my DD than DSD1

He feels that my DD and DSD2 exclude her a lot. I agree, they do, but it's as a result of her behaviour. I said to him would he want to spend time with someone who is constantly hitting him, shouting at him and taking his things? He said no, but he thinks she is doing those things as a way to get back at them for leaving her out and we are now stuck in a vicious circle

DSD1 is naturally very loud and excitable, my DF is too. He said that part is just her personality, he doesn't want to dampen that spirit and he feels like everyone is beating her down all the time and no one ever reacts positively to anything she does.

He feels like normal sibling bickering is now being taken as "DSD1 is misbehaving again" so my DD and DSD2 have a get out clause because it's always just assumed that DSD1 is responsible as she is seen as the bad one and they are the good ones. He feels like me always sticking up for DD and DSD2 makes him have to stick up for DSD1 as she has no one at all in her corner. He said I come down on her for stupid little things that I let DD and DSD2 away with. Which could be true as I know I'm hyper aware of DSD1s behaviour escalating and things she is doing but I'm not like that with my DD or DSD2, I don't feel like I need to watch their every move like I do with DSD1

She isnt all bad, she loves researching and picks topics then finds out absolutely everything she can about them (we are on Batman/Joker/Harley Quinn) at the moment) when she has had a research session she will come out of her room bursting to tell you what she has discovered and rambles it all out at 100 miles an hour. I love how excited she gets about things she is passionate about. She is also very grateful. She is so appreciative of things she is bought or given. She just doesn't seem to like anyone else being given anything.

We have decided we are going to sit down tonight with just DSD1 and talk to her again. I'm also going to make a conscious effort to be more positive towards her. So we will see what happens tonight

@lovebug06 no, there has never been an issue with bullying. Her group of friends just argue a lot but they are all as bad as each other.

She is quite academic and does well in school

Her behaviour is more petty, irritating things than bullying. Apart from last night when she whipped her with the tshirt, DSD2 is never actually hurt when she hits/punches/kicks her, she does it lightly and then runs away. She wants to annoy people more than hurt them

@roking when you sit down with her tonight, tell her all the wonderful things you have just said about her to her. Apologise for things such as favouring the other two - even though she is in the wrong - acknowledging your faults and her positives is such a good place to start. I know it’s hard when she’s been so difficult but honestly, it does make a difference.

You need professional intervention with DSD Mum as well. The dynamic is very ingrained and you all need help and support to change it.

He feels like her personality is being merged with the bad behaviour and people can't separate them.

She won’t be able to separate them clearly either. She’ll see herself in that light. You need to make her see herself differently. As part of the love bombing you’ll need to constantly pick up on anything good she does and remark on it/praise it. Constantly ‘casually’ mention positive things like “oh you’ll be good at this...” “I know I can rely on you to...” “You’re just the person I need to help with...” Repeat repeat repeat until she starts thinking it too. She needs to have more positive personality traits than negative ones.

To me she also seems deeply unhappy and insecure. I would really recommend that she gets counselling.

I worked with children with behaviour problems for 10+years by the way! I’m not just pulling all this out my arse.

You can't really blame the others for "excluding" her (and I dont feel watching a film in another room is excluding it's simply doing something elsewhere)

What punishment did she actually get for whipping her sister? Any? Because I'm not being funny but unless she went in and actually tried to join in (not take over)and was rejected then she isnt being excluded she is just behaving badly

@slipperywhensparticus to be fair to her, they did tell her to get out of the room last night. She was watching videos on her phone and laughing really loudly at the videos while they were trying to watch the film. So they told her to get out and wouldn't let her back in

She then came down stairs and started the video watching /very loud laughing in the living room where I was watching telly and I asked her to turn it down. She turned it down for a few minutes and then turned it back up again but claimed she hadn't turned it back up. I then told her to go and watch the videos elsewhere. That's when she went in and started on her sister

@redred9 thanks for the advice. I'm going to get my Df to read it too. So that we are both on the same page

@RedRed9 absolutely absolutely agree.

Apologise for things such as favouring the other two - even though she is in the wrong - acknowledging your faults and her positives is such a good place to start.
Could not disagree with this more! Talk about giving this kid a licence to behave badly!!! From what it sounds OP has nothing to apologise for.
If it were me wording would go along the lines of "it may appear to you that we favour your sisters but that is not the case" & then thrash out unacceptable behaviours & their consequences.
OP I can fully understand why you don't want to leave but even your last update is a raging red flag to me. Your df is basically 'blaming' you for making him feel he has to stick up for dsd1; he knows she's out of line but really if you'd just be less of a disciplinarian then he wouldn't be forced into the position of having to downplay her behaviour - that's what I for one see reading between those lines. He may not be aware he's doing this but he is.
A pp is absolutely right in saying there is an ingrained dynamic established between this girl and her parents & subsequently between her & her ds & then subsequently between her & you & your dd & that dynamic/pattern is unlikely to shift without professional intervention which in itself will get harder the older she gets.
One of the things that caused me to split with my exp is that I came to the realisation that the dynamic between him & his exw, her dynamic with their kids & dp's dynamic with their kids were all things that had been established well before I knew him & to me & my kids those dynamics were toxic. Dp got this when he was away from it & with me in a more healthy environment, but the minute he had his kids (all teens) all the old dynamics would kick off again & it caused havoc & major stress, but it was so ingrained it would never change without outside help.
Your df is failing his daughter atm as if he keeps supporting this behaviour she is going to develop into a teen/adult that very few people will like or tolerate. She needs help.
I'm not trying to criticise but I could not subject my child to living like that & to that end I think all three adults are focusing more on dsd1 than the other two who are basically being terrorised in their own home & for those who say it's normal sibling stuff - it's not. No child should have to live locking doors due to other siblings & thinking this behaviour is normal is one of the biggest reasons bullying is so prevalent; this behaviour being accepted in homes sets people (both perpetrator & victim) up to thinking it's ok in all aspects of life.

@magda72 he wasn't blaming me. There was a lot more discussed, I just didn't want to bore people with the full details. I asked him to be straight with me about his feelings and the way he sees the situation so he was doing as I asked

He feels like across the full extended family that no one is ever positive towards her or says anything nice to her and he feels she is constantly being beaten down. He doesn't want her to feel like no one loves her and that she's a burden on everyone. So he thought if he fought her corner it would give her reassurance that she is loved and wanted, but it's just put us into this vicious circle we are struggling to break out of.

Other family members, his mum especially, are very dismissive of her because she is loud and so full on. My DF was also very loud and full on as a child (controls it now as an adult) but said he know how it feels to be told to shut up and be quiet all the time or to have people roll their eyes when they see you coming. I'm glad he was honest with me as I hadn't actually thought about it from that perspective at all.

I know I am guilty of being down on her, I regularly tell myself in the morning to be more tolerant of her, but it is usually lost by lunchtime. I don't feel like this at all about my DD or my DSD2. They go about their days and I don't ask much of them but I feel like if I don't keep on top of my DSD1 she will be up to no good.

He pointed out that I make a point of making sure any cups/plates/bowls that she takes upstairs are brought straight back down when she is finished with them. I made her do it last night before she went to bed, but at the moment there are bowls and cups still at the side of DDs bed that her and DSD2 we're using last night. He is right I do do that. DSD1 is guilty of letting them pile up whereas the other 2 will generally bring them down the next day so I don't monitor them. That is another difference that is being made between them

He acknowledged his faults in blindly defending her and failing to see anything bad she does

I'm trying to find a way through this for all of us

My fiancé won't do anything about it

This is 100% the problem. Stop blaming the child. She has a shit dad.

For your own daughter, I would leave because it's only going to get worse.

Your step daughter has a personality disorder.
It need professionals to step it. I don't think you can handle it by yourself.
And you plan with "love-bombing" will only make things worse.

I would speak to school and get some support for her there and also take her to the GP.

Can you send her for counselling? Perhaps someone from outside, not involved in the home scenario with no issues with her would be the best person to speak to her and for her to speak to. To help her get a more balanced view.

It's quite hard to change ingrained habits even as an adult.

Some things to try

A family meeting with all 5 of you. Set house rules
No hitting, pinching, slapping or putting mean hands on another person
All dishes to be brought downstairs the same day
No listening to phones without headphones unless you are on you own in your own bedroom
No putting someone else down
No helping yourself to food without asking you first

Things We do
We support each other
We are nice to each other
We listen to each other

We will each do something on the ‘we do’ list every for each person in the family

Then set Written Consequences for problem behaviour

Every time any of the girls does something unacceptable use the phrase
“I love you, but I dont like what you are doing”. Then explain Specifically what they are doing that you dont like. They dont have to agree with your opinion (gets round the you cant prove it chant). And then put in place the consequence and follow through every time. The consequences dont have to be draconian, its just enough that the girls know you have seen the misbehaviour and are taking action.

Hope some of this helps

I think your talk with him was positive and he made some reasonable points.

I was wondering whether it might help to have some games where all the girls were on one team and you and him on another.....so they can work together and have a common goal.

@roking - I fully appreciate that you're in this, not us the readers, but that's what I took from your posts. I think your clarification on what you and your df discussed also says a lot - to me as a reader - & to that end your clarification points as a man projecting his childhood experiences & feelings onto his dd. This is perfectly understandable but ultimately of no help to either him or her or the family in general.
From everything you've described it honestly does sound like this can't be solved by love bombing & explanations as the main adult in the set up - your df - has his own childhood traumas around personality perception & so he is not well qualified to be objective. And I mean that in a supportive, not critical way. This girl & the family unit in general cannot be helped if your df is on the defensive because he sees himself & his childhood in his dd - in his subconscious mind by protecting her he's actually standing up for his childhood self. This is psychodynamic behaviour that is honestly very hard to combat without help - I have training & experience in this so am not talking out through my arse.
In my earlier post I mentioned an entrenched dynamic & this is it. Your sds1 will not change so long as her experiences are being so heavily tied in with those of your df.
I'm only trying to give advice, not criticise.

Points to not 'as'.

I feel really sorry for her, she needs help. I think she’s got stuck in the cycle of “teasing” and “winding people up” as a way to get attention and now everyone has her labelled as an annoying, loud, trouble maker (which is fair enough given her bad behaviour). She clearly senses that no one really wants her there so starts acting up for a reaction or attention, which just reinforces everyone’s views of her and the cycle continues. She can also see she is being left out and excluded so is now punishing the other two as she feels resentful that they’re so close and clearly don’t like her that much (which again is understandable).

I agree with others that she may have personality disorder or this may be an extreme reaction to very low self esteem and being rarely praised but constantly told she’s too loud, annoying and to be quiet or go away (which would probably eat away at most people’s self esteem as a young girl) when it sounds like that’s just her personality and she’s always been that way, like her father. I would suggest family therapy and having her evaluated by a professional. I think she feels like villain in the family and is acting accordingly.

@Elsiebear90 what you have just said is basically exactly how my DF sees it. That was basically his exact view last night.

I also like another posters idea of putting the girls on a team against me and him. Will definitely try that.

I'm hoping she will open up tonight when we talk and tell us honestly what's going on in her head.

She has been very quiet today, she's in her room doing her school work. I shouted on her there for lunch and she came down, ate her toastie, showed me a funny video she found in tiktok and has gone back upstairs