Poisoned apple, anybody? DSD, 21, and debt

[Nettletheelf]

I'm a stepmum to a 21 year old girl and an 18 year old boy. Their dad and I have been married for seven years.

Both are at university. I love them both, but it hasn't always been easy. DH spoiled them after his divorce so they acquired some grabby/wheedling tendencies, which DSS has pretty much grown out of.

DSD is repeating her third year at university. It's a long course. She texted DH today saying the following:

1. She had £5 to last until 31 December.
   

1. She can't get a job because she has to study too hard.
   

1. She couldn't afford to buy Christmas presents.
   

1. Could she have some money please?
   

He called me at work, upset and keen to discuss it tonight. In the interest of full disclosure:

1. DSD chose to study in Scotland, where courses are longer.
   

1. DSD goes on the university ski trip every year. Average cost: £1500.
   

1. She gets a full loan plus a bursary of £2k per year and £150 per month from us.
   

1. She went to Paris last month, and to Oslo for the weekend in October.
   

1. She travels 200 miles by train regularly to see her boyfriend.
   

1. DSD inherited £10k from her grandmother last year, and spent it travelling the world this summer.
   

I'm not unsympathetic to her financial problems, and my suggestion to DH is that we give her a one off gift of cash to tide her over, with the downside that she has to answer some difficult questions and face up to reality. I feel that we'd be doing her a favour. Tough love.

I particularly want her to tell us what was going through her mind when she booked the skiing holiday, which she must have known she couldn't pay for, and why she found it advisable to visit Oslo, notorious for being one of the most expensive cities in the world. I'd also like her to tell us how she plans to manage her money from now on.

At the risk of sounding like an old gimmer, I didn't go on skiing holidays when I was a student. I couldn't afford it, and I knew it, so it never even entered my mind.

DH, on the other hand, wants to up the amount we give her each month. I disagree; I think that would be enabling bad behaviour, and she won't learn from it.

He thinks that my suggestion of giving her a one off helping hand with strings attached (the strings are, having the hard word from us to the effect that she can't afford to go skiing until she's earning a proper salary, that she'll have to rein back the expensive travel until she can afford it and that we want her to think hard about how silly she was to blow her entire inheritance instead of saving some of it) is cruel and 'having a go'.

Who is right? Am I a cruel stepmother? I thought that the answer was obvious: "cut your coat according to your cloth, and realise that we're not always going to bankroll you".

[ivykaty44]

Why do they do it though? Is it so that the dc will keep going to them? Is it to keep the dc dependant upon them and not able to stand on their own two feet but having to go to parent - is it power, a way of making the live them more?

It isn't a one way process....

This father needs his DD to need him

[HormonalHeap]

Nettle you're spot on with the compensation for holidays being a way of justifying giving her a wad load of cash. I'm surprised my dh hasn't thought up that one, I'm disappointed in him!

Your dh started well. He called you to discuss it. But it's gone downhill as he has no intention of acting on your thoughts. I know that if I was the mother of dh's children, I would be treated like an equal when it comes to making decisions. He obviously thinks I don't have their best interests at heart, when I, like you, would like my dh to teach them how to manage money for their own future benefit, just like I do with my own children. Infuriating.

[Bananasinpyjamas1]

Why do they do it? I do think fathers feel good about being able to provide and be needed by their child like daughters especially. They like the simplicity of being able to get the immediate reward 'thank you daddy!'. Also, there is an implied guilt that loving a new woman is a betrayal, in a way that a mums new bf won't get, so dads need to compensate.

[WhoGivesAFlying]

Holiday back pay? I've heard it all now! id also want to see bank statement as to where she needs to cut back. I fear your DP is never going to change though

[Whatsinaname2011]

Yanbu

[coffeeisnectar]

My ex has parents who still bail him out now. He's in his 40s. He gets into debt, dad sorts it out, he never pays dad back and so the cycle continues.

I have a 19 dsd who is working and living with her bf. She's saved, bought a second hand car and passed her test. I'm so proud of her because she's had to struggle and do everything herself but she appreciates everything. She's a gem.

My 17 year old is at school and working p/t and is going the same way as dsd, saving for a car and doing it all herself. She will have a gap year to work full time and save up. Then uni where she will work to pay for her housing and food. We will help when we can with food etc. But she won't ask, she's another one who knows that being an adult means standing on your own feet.

And I look at my poor ex ils and thank God that my kids won't be like my ex. Because effectively they are STILL subsidising him as they never learned how to say no.

[tribpot]

Holiday back pay is a new low in Disney Dadding. What about some kind of entertainment fee for all the joy they've given you over the years? They could have gone to Swiss finishing school but they didn't, so that's at least a 30 grand saving.

[WhoGivesAFlying]

Shit! I need to start sending some invoices to my dad!

[TendonQueen]

Is it only me who is reminded of the cheesy old country song 'No Charge'? Stepdaughter should be sat down and made to listen to Tammy Wynette singing this. Lyrics below

www.lyricsfreak.com/t/tammy+wynette/no+charge_20269868.html

[Corygal]

Right - she's failing univ because she's not working hard enough and he reacts by giving her £500 for a fortnight's partying?

[tribpot]

, extremely apt in this situation.

I wonder if I can still charge my parents, I don't see why there should be a cut-off in your 20s.

[purpledasies]

No!!! That song makes me cry

Thankfully holiday "back pay" is something we've agreed firmly not to do - as now stated in our new document setting out what we pay for for post-18 children (!). Though it was something DSD1 (and her DM) suggested when she went through a phase of not wanting to do family holidays. Thankfully DH said no, and last year she came with us again

[Nettletheelf]

I should have thought of "no charge"!!!

I may play it stealthily over Christmas.

I think that the theory of guilty parents keeping the kids close with money is bang on, by the way. When I first met DH, I found it bizarre that he kept trying to encourage DSS, then aged 11, to want things so that DH could buy them for him and feel good about it. Nintendo games, mostly.

I won't be countenancing the 'holiday back pay' silliness but good to know that I'm not the only one who finds the idea barking mad!

New year's resolution: make that will!

[MeridianB]

Hi Nettle. I mentioned wills. It's horrible but important, especially if you have strong feelings about where your money ends up. Because...you cannot know that DH will go first and if you die intestate then yes, it goes to DH and then will go to....? DSCs?

Equally, if you both die in a car crash, probate will attempt to determine who died first and if it was you, then the money would go to his children (and his parents, if still alive, I think). So it's well worth getting something drawn up. Also worth considering protection for you/the house/its contents if your DH dies first so that DSCs cannot raid it for 'their share' while you still live there.

I agree with Asteria that it might be worth trying the 'let's sit down together' to get an honest picture of her finances so DH can be appalled but it does have the added risk that he may just give her even more cash.

[MaybeDoctor]

I think the area where she needs the firmest kick up the bum is in relation to her studies.

What if she fails this year again? I suspect that the option of re-sitting will not be open to her and then she will be exiting without any qualifications post 18. She is wasting time as well as money every time she goes away. Not such a problem if she was doing well, but she isn't.

[HormonalHeap]

Meridian- we don't as yet have wills (not got round to it) but I know we should. As I understand it, if either me or my dh died intestate, assets would be split with 50% passing to the other, and 50% to the adult children of the one who died. Do u know if this is correct?

[purpledasies]

hormonal I think it depends how much you're worth. If it's below a certain limit (around £300k I think, but not sure exactly) it will all go to your spouse if there's no will.

Though personality I think your first obligation maybe is to your spouse if you don't have children of your own and die young. They may have a lot of years left before they'd be passing anything on to anyone, if they ever do.

[HormonalHeap]

Thanks Purple. So confusing!

[Liquidlucnhlover]

No, you're not a wicked SM at all!! You sound as though you've kept your cool through some pretty intolerable circumstances.

At 21 years old she is an adult.

At 21 years old I had just given birth, graduated, was paying my own bills, running my own car and trying to set up my own business.

Your DP has done her no favours whatsoever by spoiling her, he has taught her that no matter what financial strife she's in, daddy will come running.

It seems obvious to me that she has made some bad choices, I suggest that you both sit her down, look at her incoming finances and her outgoings for necessities, rent, bills, food etc and set out a clear budget and warn her that if she over steps the mark, you will not be willing to support her financially anymore.

[OutToGetYou]

Ref wills: if you die together, it is legally assumed the eldest died first.

If you are married and die intestate first £250k goes to spouse and then 50% of the rest each to spouse and children.

If you are married, and therefore naturally assumed to be financially interdependent, and make a will leaving everything to someone other than your spouse, they can challenge it and quite possibly get it overturned.

Yes, new years resolution for everyone: make a will, having taken good advice.

[HormonalHeap]

So if there are lots of dcs, their 50% gets divided up between them?

[DoreenLethal]

DSD has gone vegan (I KNOW) so I'm running myself ragged trying to find vegan food for Christmas Day.

Don't run yourself ragged. Just walk into a supermarket and buy a nut roast. And serve it with veggie gravy and veg.

[OutToGetYou]

HH - yes.
I can't link easily on the phone but if you Google 'dying intestate' there is a .gov website, might be HMRC, which explains it.

[GasLIghtShining]

www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will

Hope this helps.

Oh my vegan - my DD is sort of vegetarian (as in won't eat meat but will have normal gravy and does not avoid gelatine etc) and that it bad enough!

[HormonalHeap]

Thanks OTGY, and GasLight for the link