Absolutely unbelievable DSD is taking the p**s!!!

[louby44]

So DP eldest DD15 has blanked him for 2 months. He's made a bit of progress with DD13 and took her out for lunch on Saturday which he really enjoyed but DD15 refused to go. She did speak to her dad for 5 minutes though.

She has just text him to ask if he can put £25 in her bank account!!
Her mum won't add any more as she already gives her £40 a month and a further £50 every 3 months (for clothes).

DP hasn't even replied to her. I cannot believe that she has the cheek to text her dad to ask for money, it just sums her up!

She should pack in smoking and learn to budget.

[charitymum]

Oh poor kids. Clearly something not. right-slamming a door and swearing may be normal; putting fist through it and spitting and hitting not. Can he not talk to school or access support for them even only having them every OW?

Hard for you both too - but if mum not handling well then even more important for you to be there for them
I guess.

[Fairylea]

I agree with charitymum.

If she is that violent then reporting her to the police might be the shock she needs and it would help to ensure she gets some proper counselling and help / guidance.

No one is saying it is acceptable for your dh to be spat at or attacked. Of course not. But is slapping her across the face the only way he could react?

[louby44]

He regrets it very much and apologised over and over again. He knows he has caused possibly irrepearable (sp?) damage with that one slap.

It's upset him so much. They were previously very, very close but he has struggled to come to terms with them growing up and not needing him like they once did. He finds it difficult to understand that when they don't want to come it isn't him they are rejecting (this is before the holiday) but that they are becoming young adults with their own lives and interests.

They were both IVF children as he cannot have children naturally.

[Shakey1500]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I'm sure OP's DH wishes he had handled things differently but someone's reaction is exactly that, a reaction. Perhaps him slapping her, whilst being assaulted, was his instinctive way of issuing a shock. In the same way one might slap someone who is hysterical. Wrong to condemn him imo.

Obviously both the daughters are troubled and rebelling. Is there access to some sort of family counselling?

I have been in the position of having rebellious SD and understand it can be incredibly difficult by the very nature of the circumstances.

I can't rightly comment on the money aspect. DSD still asks for money to be put in her account and she's 22 I've given up trying to convince him that he's not doing her any favours in the "life lessons stakes" but he caves every time.

[ChinaCupsandSaucers]

If she is that violent then reporting her to the police might be the shock she needs and it would help to ensure she gets some proper counselling and help / guidance.

My understanding is that she has already been cautioned by police for assaulting her Mum; clearly whatever help was available hasnt been effective.

While it is clear that the OP wants to stand by her man, she has her own DCs to think of; exposing them to that level of violence, either at home or on family holidays, is clearly not appropriate.

[NoComet]

One slap for appalling behaviour, for fucks sake what would your Fathers and Mothers have done to you if you had spat at them when you were 15.

My dad would have slapped me, so would any of my school friends Dad's. Even my BF's DDad who spoilt her rotten would have done.

No one in my generation would have contemplated behaving like that.

My 15 DD wouldn't behave like that and she would certainly expect a slap and to be grounded for life if she did.

Get off the OP and her DOs case.

No she doesn't get any money. Especially not if she smokes (and I guess drinks to need that much money a month. Unless she's paying bus fares or an iPhone contract).

[Eliza22]

It is NOT acceptable to be abusive and spit at people. Her father slapped her. He ought not to have but, if she were in a bar or at work and started hurling abuse, being violent and spitting at people, she may have gotten more than a slap. This girl needs to develop a sense of acceptable behaviour. She sounds to have sorely provoked her dad.

[curlew]

I didn't realise the police caution 14 year olds........

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

Whyever not? The age of criminal responsibilty is 10 in England and Wales, 8 in Scotland though there's an ongoing campaign to raise it to 12. 14 is quite old enough to know that biting, spitting etc isn't actually ok.

[wannaBe]

so, the daughter spit, hit and scratched and was slapped once (and rightly so IMO) and it's the dad who gets the blame? is it any wonder that people say children grow up with no boundaries when people get so precious about things like that.

As for the "if it had been a woman" if a woman hit and spat at her partner and he slapped her it would have been self defence. There's a vast difference between a provoked slap in the heat of the moment and sustained violence from a controlling partner. Some people need to get some perspective.

Op I wouldn't give her any money under any circumstances. Fifteen is not a baby, she is perfectly able to be responsible for her actions. Perhaps she does need some counselling but perhaps she is also just a violent shit who needs a short sharp shock from the law.

[Fairy1303]

Agree that her behaviour was not acceptable, spitting is common assault and should be treated as such. HOWEVER, and I'm saying this gently OP...

Perhaps if she has a parent who would slap her, under ANY circumstances, it might just be learnt behaviour? I'm not saying he wasn't provoked, but seriously? He SLAPPED his 15 year old daughter? Come on OP.

Agree with Natasha that she sounds very angry. I think the two of them need to be put in a room and talk it out. She is 15, 15 year olds get angry, they behave badly, they strop. If they have had a rocky time of it this is compounded. She is probably also reeling from the fact that her father slapped her. I think it would ake me a while to forgive that too, particularly in the mind of a 'oh GOD, I haven't even DONE anything!!!' Teenager.

Don't give her any money though.

[2blessed]

If, at 15 (or even now) I had thought it acceptable to spit/hit my mum then my mum would have given me a serious smack and she would have been absolutely right to. Thats a line that you just don't cross unless you think you can without any repercussions.

[Fairy1303]

No, it is never right or acceptable to slap a child.

There are far better sanctions than teaching her that you meet violence with violence.

[Eliza22]

You see, I grew up in a violent home. It wasn't directed toward me but I know the difference between a reactionary slap, done albeit in the heat of the moment when provoked and domestic abuse. Yep. BIG difference. As I say, the dad ought NOT to have but I think for him it was a lat resort STOP sign he was holding up to his daughter.

[Fairy1303]

I did not say it was domestic abuse. I said it was unacceptable, and there are better ways of punishing violent behaviour than showing her that it is ok to hit if you are pushed far enough.

I'm sure DH feels awful about it, I'm sure it was heat of the moment and was an extreme reaction to being pushed to is limit.

I still don't think it is hard to see why he hasn't been round in a while. In the teenage psyche, she is the injured party.

[CheerfulYank]

If my 15 year old spat, bit, and scratched me while swearing I'd possibly slap her too.

[mumandboys123]

yes, report her to the police...and then she'll report him to the police. And I can guess which one of them will end up in a police cell, having to give statements.

It is with the usual disdain that I read this. A step parent complaining about a step child's behaviour and when sensible suggestions are made as to what to do, the step parent simply shrugs and says her partner has little say in his children's lives and how awful it must be in their mother's home. Mum's fault - they live with her most of the time and she doesn't (apparently) want dad involved.

Dad has responsibilities towards his children. He needs to be contacting the school and working out what is going on. He needs a meeting with their form tutors or year heads and he needs to explain how concerned he is about his children's behaviour and ask for an update on how they are viewed in school. It doesn't matter if mum agrees with this or not. He needs to act responsibly to get his children the support they need. And ultimately, if their main home with mum is unsuitable and there is something going on that is so bad, it is making a teenage child slam her fists into wardrobes, he needs to be considering whether this is the best environment for them and deciding whether he is prepared to take up the challenge and care for them full-time himself. Until he does all this, he is simply another moaning non resident parent who is happy to point out the error of everyone else's ways but not put his money where his mouth is, as it were.

And whilst I know how hard it can be to treat children equally, particularly if they have been badly behaved, it would have been reasonable to send the elder child something with the younger one if he was buying her t-shirts. Imagine how that feels - your dad prefers the younger one because she will see him when you're too angry to see him? your dad doesn't care about you in quite the same way? Expecting her to do something in return for monetary reward isn't acceptable. Give her anyway, if you are giving the other one. Or give to neither. It's the only way you can go when one child is almost estranged and getting more estranged by the minute.

[saintmerryweather]

go on then fairy, how would have stopped an angry 15 year old girl from attacking you without resorting to some sort of physical behaviour?

[ChinaCupsandSaucers]

No, it is never right or acceptable to slap a child.

Just so I'm clear, what you are saying is that if I am the OPs DP, and I am violently attacked by someone I know to be violent, while abroad and in the company of my DP and younger DCs, I should not use any violence whatsoever to defend myself or respond to the attack if I know that my attacker is a child?
At what age is it acceptable?

And what alternatives do you suggest? Call the police, abroad? In a country which may treat the child more harshly than here in the UK? Allow myself to be injured? Risk my DP and the younger DCs being attacked?

I agree that calculated, measured violence is not a solution to the issues being experienced - but in the circumstances the OP describes, what 'better sanction' you would suggest than a short, sharp slap?

[ChinaCupsandSaucers]

if their main home with mum is unsuitable and there is something going on that is so bad, it is making a teenage child slam her fists into wardrobes, he needs to be considering whether this is the best environment for them and deciding whether he is prepared to take up the challenge and care for them full-time himself

What a patronising, misinformed and frankly offensive comment.

If you judge every father against your unrealistic expectations of the system, then it's no wonder you are frequently at odds with the majority of Stepmums here on MN.

Six months ago, my DSS told DP he was scared to go home incase Mum hit him like she hits DSD. DP did what you advocate - involved the authorities, followed their advice and I accepted very intrusive emergency visits to our home.
Despite DSD confirming DSS allegations, despite their Mum admitting that she was regularly physically abusive to DSD, despite DP being assured that he did everything right, within a matter of hours, DSS was back with his Mum and DP was being assured by professionals that everything was fine and that sometimes family arguments get out of hand.

So before you preach about how the OPs DP has failed, perhaps you should test the system for yourself and see how far you get?

[ChinaCupsandSaucers]

Imagine how that feels - your dad prefers the younger one because she will see him when you're too angry to see him? your dad doesn't care about you in quite the same way?

Is love and care expressed through monetary reward in your home? Why on earth would a teen consider she is less cared for because she has received fewer material things?

[Fairy1303]

Come on china, I did not say he had failed. I accept that things had got out of hand, but you can't seriously be advocating slapping as an acceptable form of discipline?!?!

saintmerry walked away until she had calmed down? Shut the door on her and punished her rationally once calm?

Look, I'm not saying I can't understand how it happened. I'm saying it wasn't right, and I can understand why,in her mind, she is the injured party.

[dingit]

I'm sorry but if someone attacked you, your snap reaction would be self defence and hit back, whoever it was. A slap across the face can hardly be called DV. He was sorry afterwards. I feel sorry for both of them actually, something has gone very wrong, my dd15 has a great relationship with her dad, better than with me in fact.

[ChinaCupsandSaucers]

fairy I very much doubt the slap was a punishment/sanction - it was a natural response to being attacked; that apparently, the OPs DP should have suppressed because his child is a victim

Even police officers use reasonable force when faced with a violent attacker - who they subsequently arrest after which the sanctions are applied.

[ChinaCupsandSaucers]

And why the hell is everything I type being posted TWICE!!!!!