Gingerly dipping my toe in this section

[bananaistheanswer]

Hello all,

I've been umm'ing and ahh'ing about posting in here for a while, but have decided to bite the bullet and just go for it. I'm hoping for some honest, and hopefully helpful, replies from the POV of partners of men who have an ex with a child/children.

Brief background. Was with ex 4 years, split 4 years ago. DD is 6. Split was a 'blessed relief' and I was happy to be out of the relationship. Felt this was a good opportunity for us both to get on better, and co-parent. It worked OK initially and then things deteriorated. Ex now occasionally bothers with DD, every 6/8/10 weeks. He has a g/f, now fiance, who DD likes very much. She's been on the scene since before we split (which I don't have an issue with, my relationship with ex died a death before we split so this isn't something that bothers me) and has made approaches to me to 'get to know me better/get along'. I'm quite happy to go along with this, but for one reason or another it hasn't really happened so far. I think subconsciously, something is holding me back from actually making more of an effort to make this happen. And this is where I need some advice.

There are a few things I think hold me back from moving things on between me and ex's g/f (ok, she is his fiance but for ease of typing I'm going to just put g/f), and I need to know if it's possible to address them without causing offence, or whether these are reasons to just politely decline invites or plans for meeting up with ex's g/f.

Ex is much older than his g/f. She's not had an easy life. She's a nice person, and easy to like. She loves my DD and treats her well, has a good head on her shoulders and actually her presence when DD is with ex reassures me as I think she has more sense than my ex when it comes to caring for DD. Ex isn't incapable, just not really big on the basics. I think part of the problem for me is, I can see that ex will make her life difficult, in much the same way he's made mine difficult, and I have such a strong urge to say something to the g/f, as I'd hate for her to end up in either the same position, or worse, than me. I don't actually want to 'warn' her as such, as I don't want them to split up. I think she is good for ex, and DD when there. I just really have a strong urge to explain some things to her, just so she has the bigger picture. But, I also am well aware that it's not really my place to say anything. This is where I think I'm really conflicted.

So, how do I address this? Is it possible to have a friendship/relationship with the g/f of an ex, without making any comment on past history even if it has some relevance? Is it just a case of either avoiding moving our relationship onto a more friendly footing if I cannot bite my tongue when I see things happening that I know are down to ex being an arse?

I'd love to get on well with the g/f, and I always envisaged that I would be able to do that, barring any personality clashes, but I guess I'm beginning to discover why these kinds of relationships can be very tricky.

Help?

[theredhen]

I think you have to keep your nose out of their relationship. She won't appreciate it and neither will your ex. What matters is the relationship your ex is having with your daughter and subsequently what relationship your daughter is having with his g/f. If the g/f ever approached you asking any questions, then I don't think you should lie, but I think you have to let her make her own mind up about your ex.

I know you probably hate the idea of what he might have said about you, but you don't have to justify yourself to anyone.

However, if your ex is only having contact every 6/8/10 weeks, I don't think it's going to be much of an issue for you seeing her or for your daughter. There isn't going to be much of a bond with that amount of contact.

[bananaistheanswer]

theredhen, it's not about what he's said about me. I'm not bothered really about that, it's water off a duck's back to me. It's more to do with how he is in general i.e. money, and I'd hate to see the g/f end up screwed financially in much the same way I've been. My ex has gone through a trust deed, and hasn't learned his lesson. He's still screwing up his money (only just learned this last week) and meanwhile they are now trying to arrange things so that she can move in with him. She really is going to get dragged into things if she does that, especially if he has not mended his ways. Hence me itching to say something! I know it's not my place to say anything, and I'm OK with that while gritting my teeth but I really would hate to see his g/f end up in huge debt like the ex is. I suspect (but don't know for sure) that she may not realise everything she is getting into, by moving in with him, while he continues to bury his head in the sand as that's his typical response when he's faced with debt.

You are wrong about the bond - DD and ex do have a good bond, despite the gap in contact. Maybe selfishly, but I sort of viewed the opportunity of getting to know the g/f better as a way to try and remedy that i.e. if the g/f takes the responsibility of arranging time with DD, DD will see more of her dad as a result of someone else making it happen, as he's lazy when it comes to that stuff. It's too easy for him to do his own thing and only occasionally bother with DD as things stand now. I hope that makes sense.

I guess the jist is this isn't a healthy way to try and improve things for DD in terms of seeing more of her dad, which is probably my motivation. Maybe I should just continue to avoid arranging a meet up with the g/f, even if it is a bit awkward coming up with excuses.

[NotaDisneyMum]

I agree with redhen

Just because your ex was an arse a particular type of person when he was with you, and when he deals with you now - doesn't mean that is how he is with his g/f.

I am a totally different person now to when I was with exH, and DP is totally different to when he was with his ex, too. Are you the same person as you were when you were married?

[bananaistheanswer]

It's tricky to explain but it's not really about how my ex was or is with me in terms of our relationship, or the sort of relationship he has with his g/f. I get what you are both saying, and I would never dream of interfering in their relationship as such. I've said as much in my OP, I don't want to get that involved here. It's just hard to bite my tongue even now, in general passing conversations, when they are both telling me stuff and I'm just chewing my tongue to stop me saying something. When they are talking about her moving in, while he's got the council arresting his wages over unpaid council tax, it's just a bit of a worry. I suspect (but don't know for certain) that he won't have told her about that. Hence my urge to spill the beans!

But, I'll hold my tongue and keep making excuses with the g/f. It's bloody hard though. I like her. And I hate avoiding her when she's asking about us meeting up.

[NotaDisneyMum]

banana - my ex is similar - after we separated he was threatening to file for bankruptcy and once the divorce was settled, he claimed that he was on a 7 year debt repayment plan and that he was financially crippled for life.

A couple of years later, he has a brand new people carrier, has just put an offer in on a £1/4 million house, holidays, new gadgets, the works - behaving just like he did with money during our marriage which was all on the never-never and which I'm still paying for

BUT - how do I know that he hasn't inherited some money? Or that she holds the purse strings? Their numbers could have come up on the lottery for all I know he blew £hundreds on it every month when we were together It's more likely than not that he is following the same pattern of behaviour than before, but I don't know that for certain and it is none of my business

My exH fiancée is old enough to look out for herself; all I can do is be around to support DD if things go wrong between them in the future

[bananaistheanswer]

Fair point notadisneymum, I probably know more than is good for me, and if I didn't know what I do I wouldn't have this problem. Although I do feel for her, it's not my place to say anything and I do know that. I think part of my problem is I don't know that my ex's g/f is really old enough to look out for herself (as I said she is quite young) and although technically an adult, I don't think she's savvy enough to know the implications of my ex's financial screw ups.

I will keep my own counsel though, and say nowt. My new mantra is it's not my place to say anything. And repeat.

[Tillyscoutsmum]

I don't really understand the need to have a relationship with her at all if I'm honest. I have been with DH since his dd was 15 months old (she's 8 now) and I have never so much as spoken a word to his ex. DH and his ex sort all the arrangements for DSD. I have a lovely relationship with dsd. DH has a lovely relationship with his dd and he has a very amicable and perfectly workable co-parenting relationship with his ex. There's just no need for anything else imo.

I would leave alone particularly if you will struggle to hold back from saying things that no one is going to thank you for.

[bananaistheanswer]

Tilly, the approach has come from the ex's g/f. I've not made any approach to her. I was weighing up the pro's and con's of making that move to accept the offer of meeting up with the ex's g/f, as she has asked me to do, and whether it would be possible to actually have a more friendly relationship (not that we have an unfriendly one). It's not been too difficult to avoid so far, but any more approaches from her and my excuses then start to look a bit hollow. She's so far asked me 4 times to meet up, with and without DD, and so far either something has come up for her, or I've made excuses. As much as I think she's a nice person and we could get on well if there wasn't the complication of her relationship with my ex and DD, I wanted to weigh up whether it was worth trying to make a go of it knowing that I'd end up saying something about ex that she might not want to hear or risk her feeling somehow snubbed, and things just peter out. Fair enough you don't want to get involved with your OH's ex. That's not the kind of situation I was asking about.

[glasscompletelybroken]

My exH had a lot of issues with jealousy in our relationship which had fairly catastrophic results. He is now with a new partner and is completely different and very happy.I am happy for him and also for our kids as they want their Dad to be happy too. I don't take it personally that he is able to have a more balanced relationship with someone else - that's just what happens sometimes.

You mustn't make the mistake of thinking your ex will just be the same with his new g/f as he was with you. It takes 2 people to make a relationship and both those people will affect how that relationship works.

Whether or not you think it's a good idea to become friends with this woman is up to you, but if you don't think you will be able to keep out of their relationship then I would just stay away tbh.

[kaluki]

In a previous relationship I got on ok with his ex wife, we used to chat about their dd and the weather etc when we saw each other but I always thought she was a bit aloof and distant. Not that it bothered me much.
When he and I split up after years of lies and abuse and he had assaulted me I got a call from his ex wife saying how sorry she was that she didn't warn me, to be honest I doubt if I'd have listened and he would have gone mad at her. she said the reason she was so off with me was that she felt uncomfortable knowing what he was really like and not being able to tell me.
Circumstances are such that we are now very good friends and I don't blame her at all for not telling me.
Who wants to hear their DHs ex go on about what a shit he was? It just comes across as bitter and jealous and she won't believe you anyway. Best to say nothing.

[bananaistheanswer]

OK thanks for the replies but either I've not made myself clear or some people are mis-interpreting what I was saying/asking. I haven't said my ex is the same with the new g/f as he was with me. Their relationship is totally different to the relationship we had. The relationship is not the issue. It's more to do with behavior patterns and how certain behaviors have not changed, and whether it's possible to have a friendly relationship with the g/f while I know stuff that she possibly doesn't have a clue about. In this case, it's mainly to do with money management, albeit as NADM says, I can't know the whole picture but I do know enough to know he has not changed despite the harsh lessons he's had to go through. The financial chaos my ex created has had long lasting effects on me and my DD. I'd hate for anyone else to go through that, and that was my main concern. That, and whether or not it would be possible to say something, while trying to move things onto a more friendly footing between me & the g/f. I accept it is not my place to say anything though, and I certainly won't say anything.

But this isn't about me projecting my relationship failings onto their relationship at all. Not quite sure where that suggestion has come from tbh. They have a good relationship overall, and given that they have lasted over 4 years now, with the progression now to engagement and then marriage, I'd say the relationship issues we had are not present in their relationship. I actually think part of the reason things have worked is that the g/f is good for the ex, she gives him what he wants/needs, so I'm well aware that the ex is more than capable of having a good relationship with someone other than me. I'm glad he does have a good relationship with her, as it has some implications on stability for DD, albeit DD doesn't see a lot of her dad. There are absolutely no issues here in terms of me seeing things that aren't there, or trying to interfere in their relationship when I have no business getting involved in. It is about certain behavior patterns my ex has, that I have unfortunately experienced, and which I know can cause untold damage. I guess if I was in the g/f's position, I'd quite like to know so I could make an informed decision about moving in with someone who has a shocking track record when it comes to money. I'm not in her position so I just wanted to know whether this was something that you (as in new partners at the point of moving in with someone) would want to be made aware of i.e. a history that is currently repeating itself just as you were about to move in with your partner. I also wanted to know whether it would be possible to make that information known, but still have a friendly relationship with the g/f. I get the answer now, and it's overwhelmingly a no on both counts. But please don't make this out to be me projecting or being somehow jealous of the ex's new relationship, or somehow trying to sabotage that. That is not my motivation here and that could not be further from the truth.

[bananaistheanswer]

It just comes across as bitter and jealous and she won't believe you anyway.

Thanks kaluki, I think that was the succinct way to give me the answer I was looking for. Me trying to explain my motivation here is a bit pointless as it doesn't matter what motivation I have, it would always be taken that way so what would be the point? As I've already said, I'll leave well alone.

[NotaDisneyMum]

banana - other than the fact that your DC's have a relationship with her, you really have no responsibility for your ex's g/f at all.
Sadly, although it would be lovely to think that others can learn from our own experience and mistakes, it is usually the case that they have to learn those lessons for themselves

No matter how young she is, she is old enough to move in with your ex, and take on the role of step-mum to your DC's. Therefore, she is old enough to recognise and alleviate the risks if she chooses too. If she is naive and has not thought it through, then what you say won't make any difference (blinded by love, maybe?) and if she has taken suitable measures to protect herself from financial ruin in the event that it happens again, she will resent your input and view it as interfering, no matter what your motive.

[bananaistheanswer]

You are right NADM, I guess I just needed to hear it from the 'other side' as well. I was dragging my heels over this, and trying to come up with good enough excuses to say no. I was just beginning to sound evasive and that makes me really uncomfortable. Especially when she is a nice person, and seems genuine in her efforts to get to know me better. I needed to hear exactly why this wasn't a good idea when it was so tempting to agree as it could make things better for DD as well if the g/f was able to get the ex to do more for her. I am certainly conflicted about the whole thing, but I'll resist arranging to go ice skating with her and DD .

[TheCrunchUnderfoot]

I see what you mean and I would feel the same.

The only way I think you might be able to salve your conscience so to speak would be to get to know her a big better and then to have a conversation where you very honestly say, something has been bothering me, I know x y and z is happening about money and I have a feeling you don't know about it and that makes me feel awful as firstly you should know as you are about to link yoursrlf finncislly to x and secondly I want you to know because you are a good person, I value having you in DD's life and I do not went you and x to split or have difficulties and for DD to lose you from her life.

You go on to say that while you and ex were not suited overall and she and he are far better together, a main issue in your relationship with him was money and from what you can see, this issue seems to be brewing again. Tell her the facts of how you and DD lost out and are still feeling the effects. End by saying that you will understand if she thinks you are out of order saying anything and if she does, you can only apologise. Reiterate that you wanted to relay some bare facts to her as you thought a. She had a right to know and b. you value her place in your DD's life and on that basis wanted to not be in a position to be hiding information from her. You could even make the point that you feel incredibly uncomfortable knowing facts about your ex's finances that she is not party to as you as you feel that is also inappropriate - as she is his partner now, not you.

Couched in those terms - respectful of her, respectful of their relationship - you might do some good, you might be able to pull it off! It totally depends on her. I notice I'm completely in the la- la land minority in saying this...

[matana]

I have no doubt that my DH was also an arse to his ex, but then so was she and still is. They were not compatible in the long term and that is why they split. My DH can still be an arse at times, but is a much improved man as we are compatible and happy, so are still together despite the ups and downs that most relationships go through. In short, i wouldn't swap him.

Your ex and his g/f may be a match made in heaven. She may know his faults and accept them regardless - to my mind, this is what love's all about, loving the person in their entirety and not trying to change them to make their faults more palatable to you. Or maybe he really is just a different man when he's with her and she brings out the best in him. Or maybe he's still an arse and she doesn't know. As someone else has said, your responsibility is to your daughter first and foremost. If you want to get to know her better for your daughter's sake, then you should be congratulated. But leave the past behind - it's not your responsibility to guide, support, or advise or ex's new g/f.

By the way, although i don't know your situation, i don't think that seeing your own daughter every 8-10 weeks is acceptable or beneficial. Just my opinion though

[bananaistheanswer]

Hmm, I think I've talked myself out of getting to know the g/f better thecrunch, although the way you put it sounds plausible. I think I'd end up putting my foot in it though. I anticipate that the ex would lie to her and then whatever I say just sounds interfering and meddling. Even if I was to say it in those terms, all it takes is for my ex to spin some lies to wriggle out of explaining things to the g/f and I'm left looking like the bad guy. It does give me a horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach thinking about the g/f ending up screwed financially like I was, but it does seem as though no matter how it's phrased, it can easily be warped once the ex gets wind of it. And that's probably where the advice on this thread has helped as the last thing I want is to give my ex a reason to blame me for his misfortune. That would probably mean DD wouldn't see him for months, if at all, and he would simply blame me for interfering or ruining things with his g/f. That's biting off more than I can chew, and certainly not where I want to go with this. But thanks anyway for the suggestion. If I'm ever placed in the position where the g/f asks me about the ex, then I'll try and remember your post.

[bananaistheanswer]

matana, I think there is certainly an element of what you say with my ex and his g/f i.e. they are well matched and as I've said she does seem to fit well with him. They seem happy and committed - they are planning to get married after all - and I have absolutely no qualms with that at all. I think my issue has, and always will be, with regard to my ex and his views on money. That isn't necessarily behavior that is directed at, or involves, the g/f but it will certainly affect her more once she moves in. That is really where my concern lies. The effects of what my ex did, and how it affects us still and will continue to affect us for a very long time, is something I occasionally can't ignore. And when that happens, I still feel angry with him. I don't have a go, or rant at him, but it's something that is always lingering in the background. It really does affect a lot of what I do now, and just the thought of someone, even if she is completely loved up and accepting of his failings, having to also deal with that just gets to me. If they are together for the rest of their lives, and he is still like this, she will have such a hard life. If they eventually split up because of it, it won't simply go away once the relationship ends, as I know only too well. I absolutely won't broach the subject with her, given most of the replies here, but it doesn't stop me feeling guilty if my predictions come true. But, I'll just chew my tongue off it it means I can stop myself from getting dragged into their relationship i.e. put myself in the position of being labelled 'bitter or jealous' and the cause of their problems.

And no, the gap between contact isn't acceptable but there isn't a lot I can do about it. I've ranted elsewhere on this subject, but there isn't a court in the land that I can go to, to try and get my ex to be more involved. He is what he is, and I just get on with raising DD. I had a lot of anxiety about the ex not being more involved with DD, but she genuinely doesn't seem affected by his lack of involvement. She would like more, but until the ex agrees to be more frequent and regular with contact, she will simply have to take what he offers. Not ideal, but not something I can push or force.

[Ticktock1]

Are you my DP's EXW?! My situation is very similar to your EXH GF, my DP is rubbish with money and moving in with him has cost me a fortune because I didn't know anything about his finacial ruin and so have had to pay for everything! But in all honesty I would not have wanted his EXW to tell me all about it. We are working through it together now, making plans and bugeting. His problems are my problems now not his EXW, its up to my DP and I to work through our situation not relive problems he had before. Its good to have a relationship with his GF, it helps me when I want to know what foods my DSD will eat this week (she's a nightmare eater) or new activities she might be in to, but our relationship is purely based on DSD. I have no desire to talk about anything else. Honestly I would leave if to them to sort out

[bananaistheanswer]

Nope ticktock, you don't sound much like my ex's g/f. She hasn't moved in yet. And she is the one who has been pushing to get to know me better, not the other way around.

[Ticktock1]

But maybe she wants to get to know you to aid your DC and build a relationship on that. That is only a good thing. I find being able to talk to my DSD mum about her invalueble but honestly wouldn't want to know about anything else.

[bananaistheanswer]

We have had chats about what DD likes etc. for xmas/birthdays etc. and I've never been anything other than friendly towards the g/f. I am not going to suddenly put a brick wall up between us, but it is awkward having to make excuses not to get together with her, with DD, when she's been angling for this to happen for a while. And she will eventually taken umbrage at me snubbing her so what can I do about that? I just do not know how else to deal with this, but to keep making excuses. Almost every reply I've had has been along the lines of you would not want to hear anything I had to say if you were in the g/f's shoes, and no one really has a close friendly relationship with their OH's ex. If I was to get more friendly/get to know the g/f better then I would find it even more difficult than I do now to keep my knowledge/experience to myself. I couldn't just stand back and say nothing while someone I was friendly with was screwed over. So, maybe it's best to keep that distance rather than move things onto a more friendly footing. You've said yourself that kind of problem is not mine anymore, but the ex and his g/f's. I kind of disagree in that I'd still feel responsible if he screwed up someone else's life in much the same way he did mine, and that does kind of make it my problem iyswim especially if he lies about his problems in the same way he did with me. But, I can't act on that as it would been taken the wrong way, or at least not in the way I intend, so I'm kind of stuck.

[PickledLily]

I wish you were my DPs ex, you sound lovely (not that my DPs ex isn't - I just don't know because she refuses to speak to DP or to me!). I would love the opportunity to talk with the ex because, whilst I might be good with children, I don't have my own and feel clueless when it comes to looking after them and I want to do the best for them. It would be so useful to know what they like/don't like, if they are going through a tricky patch and need a bit more TLC, whether they've run out of clothes at home and I have to send some back with them etc. We don't need to be friends, but communication would be so much better for the DCs (I'm surprised at how many comments I read from mothers on MN who don't think this is necessary for the well-being of their children).

You have been given good advice here - you cannot share your thoughts on your ex's past (or current) misdemeanors with the GF; it won't sink in and could be taken the wrong way. I suspect my DP was also hopeless with money, but I'm financially savvy so have taken the reins here. Even if this is not the case with the GF, you need to sit back. I've had to do this twice now with an ex; these lovely girls come along and are completely taken in and then it goes pear-shape. But it's their learning curve and nothing you can say to them would change the circumstances. You need to look after yourself and your child. Do you really want to become the GF's crutch, providing emotional support if they have financial difficulties? However, if you feel that is the right way to go, I suggest it has to come from her (perhaps make a indirect comment about budgeting and the state of the economy) that leaves it open for the GF to raise any concerns, and leave it at that. But my advice would be don't go there.

I would say it IS worth meeting/having a conversation with GF because it sounds like she has something she wants to discuss (unless she is niave enough to think that you can be best buddies), and it could be a means of opening negotiations for increased contact time. If you decide you don't want regular conversations with her, I think she deserves to know the boundaries you are setting and rationale, so that it doesn't become a bigger issue.

[NotaDisneyMum]

banana - it's a shame that you don't think you will be able to 'keep your own counsel' about your ex's weaknesses to his g/f; your DCs would undoubtedly benefit if you could establish a superficial friendship with their SM based on their DCs.

Without meaning to pry - do you think some support for yourself may help? If you could move past the hurt/anger/emotion you feel about what happened to you (which you are still living the consequences of) then perhaps a closer relationship with your exH and his partner would be possible?

[NotaDisneyMum]

*the DCs, not theirs - sorry!!!