Controlled crying- how long does it take?

[albazavi]

I'm looking for some advice on CC from those that have been there as I'm on day 8, and getting ready to throw in the towel!

DS is 7 and a half months and from 3 months has been a terrible sleeper. We decided to try CC, after seemingly trying everything else and both of us being utterly exhausted.

The first 3 days works brilliantly- 1.30hr, first night, then 55mins and 45 mins and got it down to 20mins of crying after about night 4 and 5. Far less wake ups that before and most he's able to put himself back to sleep. He even slept through on night 5!

But the last 3 nights have been getting increasingly worse not better, 40 mins to settle, then an hour, and I'm currently on 45 minutes and he's not showing any how of settling.

I though after a week, the screaming would be down to a minimum but it's just getting worse!

I know a lot of people hate CC, but please don't berate me for it. I've fully researched the effects and we were at the end of our tether.

But any advice for how long it takes? I don't know how many more nights of this I can do?

[Timetogrowup2016]

Re
Fate always says you can't tell if sleep training is working in a few days.
But she's saying this isn't working and it's only been 8 days.
It's hypocritical

[ElphabaTheGreen]

Re-read FATE's posts. She didn't critique.

If you're happy with your decision to have done controlled crying, then own it and don't get defensive. You're reading in criticism where it doesn't exist.

[Timetogrowup2016]

That's fine then.
And I'll take back what I said and apologise for being overly defensive.

I just didn't like it when she posted about the orphanage.
My child gets plenty of love. It's in no way comparable and to it felt unnecessary to mention that . That is all.

My child has a dummy she can access and pick up her self and put in. She loves her dummy for sleeps.

All I meant was my child can sometimes fall asleep without any comfort and no crying ( mild moaning only ) involved .

The fact she told me this was sad . Is what upset me.

I am sorry for what I said .

[GeorgeTheThird]

It sounds as though you are making progress to me. Calpol for the teething pain?

[ElphabaTheGreen]

I just didn't like it when she posted about the orphanage.^ My child gets plenty of love. It's in no way comparable and to it felt unnecessary to mention that . That is all.^

And not once did she compare your child to a Romanian orphan - you did that yourself. She qualified, multiple times in that same post, that it was an illustration of how all babies need and find comfort to sleep, even if the methods are maladaptive and sad, and even if you don't recognise them as methods of comfort (I notice you've mentioned a dummy used by your baby who 'doesn't need comfort', apparently. That is fine, it's great, it works for you, but it proves FATE's point entirely.)

But let's all calm down a bit.

[Timetogrowup2016]

Yes.
I agree and I'm sorry to fate,
All I mean Is that sometimes she can fall asleep with no crying without a dummy.
But she's offered a dummy every sleep time . Which she took to around 3 months and has had since, dummies are ace in my opinion. They've saved us .

I don't think the orphanage comment was necessary at all imo that's what I'm saying and mean.
It's a guilt inducing to many and not needed at all

[5minutestobed]

A dummy is a comfort, that's the whole point FATE was trying to make.

[Timetogrowup2016]

Yes I know .
And what I'm saying dd can fall asleep without it sometimes . So she can fall asleep with no comfort but I don't deny comfort if she needs it .
I was upset at the sad comment she made that's all

[catastropheinprocess]

Sympathies, I nearly went mad with sleep deprivation.. DD fed every 2 hours max for six months (was a premie) and we still did a dream feed at 11 until she was 14 months.

Could he be hungry?

CC didn't work for us...what saved us is that DD's room has a double bed in it. We took turns to sleep in with her..meaning at least we both got sleep at some point.

Take comfort in the fact that she is now an amazing sleeper (still naps 2 hours a day ages 3 and cracks out 12 hours at night.)

Good luck. Our DDs dreadful sleep for the first year is a huge part of why she is an only child.

[DorotheaHomeAlone]

OP this thread seems to have got a bit predictably derailed. 7 months old is a perfectly fine age to sleep train. I trained my second dc last week (just under 7 months) and he slept through from the third night.

What kind of prep did you do before the cc? I did loads with both dc and I think it made all the difference.

First I night weaned, then cut out all feeding to sleep for both naps and bed time ( I bf but only put them into sleep sack after we're done and read a book so they're definitely awake), introduced a rock solid bedtime and bedtime routine and sleep cue phrase, spent a while only settling them in the cot at night and never picking up THEN did cc at intervals of one minute, two, four (starting the time again if they stopped crying at any point). I walk in settle with my hand and the sleep cue then immediately leave. Never got past four minutes with either of them. Neither cried for more than 35m total on and off.

Neither has a comforter but one sucks thumb and the other stokes the bed sheet to self soothe.

Hope this helps.

[snowinafrica16]

i can only offer sympathy, we did CC with dd1 at that age, and with dd2 we left it a bit later but not much - our point was when we were sure she wasn't hungry for milk. We felt (& feel) terrible about it but both working FT, losing our sanity and our jobs wasn't an option.

[FATEdestiny]

Timetogrowup2016

Your baby is 9 months old
Has a dummy
Can put that dummy in himself.

Therefore your baby can access comfort (the dummy) whenever needed (because he is now old enough to do it himself).

That was my whole point.

Different matter for children who either physically cannot access the comfort (because of immature physical skills) or is given no comfort.

All babies require comfort to sleep. All of them.

There's also nothing controversial that sometimes he can sleep without the dummy. Mine can in the car or pushchair - movement instead as her comfort (since I don't give dummy outside the cot). Sometimes babies access comfort in several diferent ways. As mentioned, my son used to have a hair-stroking comforting method as well as his dummy. Nothing suprising in that.

dummies are ace in my opinion. - we agree on that point.

bash everyone else that doesn't want to do gradual fucking withdrawal.

Pardon?

I favour GW, yes. I offer suggestions and advise on pretty much every method. I can talk posters through making cosleeping work. Or reasonable expectations (regarding age and comfort) for CC. I would suggest CC as an option of a poster needed results ASAP and baby was old enough to access comfort. I have been vocal on in the fact I have used cio myself. The only method I rarely talk about is PUPD and that's because I don't rate it imuch.

I'm just fed up of people being critiqued for a little bit of crying.

I can only think you don't actually read any of my posts. Because while I post a lot, you're either confusing me with someone else or you simply don't read or understand my posts on the sleep board.

Maybe you've just read one and didn't like my advise on that one thread? Everyone's different, I give lots of different advise to different people in different situations. Rarely does one size fits all.

In relation to crying, I often recommend the speeded up version of GW that will involve lots of crying. I've also discussed cc and cio as a last resort if it is relevant.

And finally fwiw, you seem to have embodied almost everything I stand for in advocating independant sleeping for babies. I am the balance against the "just cosleep and use a comfy sling wrap" advise that was all you got on the Sleep Board 2 years ago. With the exception of your baby grumbling, it's very similar to the sleep methods I favour.

The cosleepers and attachment parents certainly have a place. Their voice is needed on mumsnet. But people like you and me Time, we are needed too to offer an independant sleeping alternate.

I have got no idea what your issue is with me? But I've seen it from you on several threads I've posted on and not just on the sleep board. If you don't like my ideas, just offer an alternate. No need to be rude or nasty though. We are (I hope) all here to help.

[FATEdestiny]

(Thank you ElphabaTheGreen)

[LittleBee23]

elpheba I completely agree it's a normal baby behaviour. I also agree we do need to recognise that more. However, I also think it's important to remember that normal baby behaviours can sometimes send us over the edge. I know that, for me, I need some down time in the evenings and when I don't get that it affects me quite badly. I imagine a lot of parents are the same.

I think it's really important to find a balance and ensure your child's needs are met but also to remember that you need to look after yourself too and if something is negatively affecting you then you need to address it.

[Timetogrowup2016]

I understand fate and I apologise to you.
I took things out of context.

[ElphabaTheGreen]

I think it's really important to find a balance and ensure your child's needs are met but also to remember that you need to look after yourself too and if something is negatively affecting you then you need to address it.

That's fine in theory LittleBee but sleep training - whatever form that takes - doesn't always work, and that is the most important mindset to have when entering into it as far as I'm concerned. Nothing worked on either of mine until they were 18 months or older, and believe me I tried everything, including a sleep consultant. I had no choice but to accept 7/8pm bedtimes and co-sleeping or sleeping on child bedroom floors for over three years and multiple, multiple, endless night wakings.

In the end, accepting normal baby behaviour and adjusting my expectations was absolutely key, because in hindsight, the main thing that was driving me mad, and meaning my needs weren't being met, were my beliefs about what should have been happening but weren't. Now that I'm pretty much past that stage, it was really such a short period of time and I deeply regret all of the pointless pissing about with swaddles, dummies, patting, sshhing, stupid, stupid CC/CIO, money wasted on cots and gadgets and wish I'd just spent more time cuddling my babies and supporting their sleep in the way they were designed for. At the end of the day, they wind up in the same place sleepwise, regardless of what you do, and information from the Durham University Sleep Institute supports this. The MN advice that sticks with me most - and that I wish I'd heeded most at the time - from my non-sleeping days goes entirely along those lines, and it's why I give it out myself now. No, it wasn't what I wanted to hear then, but I know now that it was exactly right.

[FATEdestiny]

Realistic expectation are key, absolutely.

It's much of the reasons parents get less stressed about second and subsequent children (learning lessons comes into it too for many, including me).

Likewise seeing the bigger picture is also key. Knowing it won't be forever and truely understanding the helplessness of a baby relying on you.

That loss of control and power (because baby now controls your day) is a common difficulty for the new parent to adjust to. This psychological battle plays a big part in how parents feel about baby's sleep.

Something else thats important: The fact I am a SAHM (and gave been for s long time) makes a huge difference to my attitude to sleep I think.

I often have to keep myself in check. It's all very well me saying "do it gradually. Be consistent. Be led by the baby, there's no rush". I can (and have) done that. But that is easy for me. Consistency comes from the fact that I am always here to do bedtime and all nap times. I can take my time because I have no 'end of maternity leave looming' deadline. I don't need to consider how baby will sleep for childminder/grandparent/nursery. I didn't even concern myself that DH didn't do bedtime in the early months - it was my role. I was the consistency. I saw the bigger picture. I could take my time.

There are real practical issues in the way of many that means they just can't do it like I did. I sometimes need to remind myself that doing the best in the situation an individual family is in is notcalwats the same as what I'd do. It's too easy to forget external pressures and the influence these have.

[LittleBee23]

I agree different things work for different babies and different families.
Both my girls were completely different. I had to do rapid return with dd1 because she wouldn't sleep when we were there, wouldn't sleep on us, wouldn't be transferred to a cot etc. She preferred sleeping alone but couldn't figure out how to manage it.
I tried it with dd2 and it just didn't work. She needs cuddles and we still co sleep at almost 2. I di agree one of the hardest things is thinking - what are they 'supposed' to do - in terms of sleep. My niece was ages with dd1 and slept through the night from 6 weeks. I then had my dad telling us it must be something we were doing with dd1 'wrongly' as niece was sleeping through and our baby wasn't. I spent so much time trying to separate myself from her because of that and regret it now.
Dd2 I just whacked in a sling, bought a next to me crib and got loads of sleep lol.

[albazavi]

Again thanks- particularly to Elphaba and Fate for the really measured advice.
Fate - sorry I though you were criticising. At that point I think I was felling incredibly guilty and can see now you were just trying to help.

We're taking a break from sleep training. DS is currently teething and struggling massively with this. The last two nights we've reverted to co sleeping as he's taken 2 hours to resettle.

It has taught me that it definitely can improve sleep (though doubt he's going to be a sleep througher) anytime soon! So know we can go back to it when we need to. He is having longer stretches between wake ups. Will take the advice on board and probably wait until he's at least 9 months!

[FATEdestiny]

I was just re-reading this. I wondered if you were still around OP?

How have things changed in the 3 months since you posted?