Totally fed up of 4 month sleep regression. Thoughts on CIO and moving to own room please

[MYA2016]

I've posted a few times recently about how my baby who used to sleep through 10 hours straight had stopped and was waking every few hours.
Everything I've read sounds just like 4m sleep regression although it started at 12 weeks (he's now 17 weeks).
He is ebf and sleeps in co-sleeping crib.
I can't take much more of these bad nights and they're getting worse. He is a nightmare for day naps... has 1 or 2 but only in my arms and probably for 45 min tops.
I'm fully aware this is probably contributing to his poor night time sleeping.

He goes to bed between 7.30-8pm. Bath, book, music and feed to sleep. Put him down.
Wakes within the hour.
DH goes up and rocks to sleep.
Wakes around 11.
I feed him to sleep.
Wakes around 1.30. Fed again.
Wakes around 3. Fed again.
Wakes around 4. Fed again.
Wakes around 5.30. Move him to our bed and feed again.
7.30 Wakes up for the day

I know he can't hungry all those times and feeding him is ridiculous but he'll suckle for 5 min or less and be asleep. The only time he'll go back to sleep without is first wake up of the night. DH gets up and tries rocking to sleep on other wakings despite having work in the mornings but this just results in an hour of none stop screaming

I can't go on like this. He needs sleep training. He's not having a growth spurt and he's not teething. He's just a really shit sleeper

Has anyone had success with CIO and also would you recommend moving to his own room for that? I've tried all other methods and nothing is working it's a joke.

[MYA2016]

Jemima he definitely doesn't have silent reflux, but like you I can no longer sleep when he goes back off. I went to bed at midnight last night in the end as he was up a lot before. I then was up 3 times before finally getting up at 5.15am. Ds slept till 7.30 with all if his usual wake ups. I feel sick I'm so tired :(
At what age did you move to solids? He's 17lb already (not fat as he's long too) and weighs more than some if my friends babies who are 6m and on solids. I feel cruel that he's still on a liquid diet in case he's just always hungry

[TurtleEclipseofTheHeart]

I don't have the answers, just sympathy. DS slept really well until 3.5 months then got worse and worse until we were reluctantly co-sleeping with him breastfeeding hourly. I was an absolute desperate mess. At just after 6 months we started him on a bottle of formula at bedtime (did nothing and was a battle for weeks but now he loves it), we then tried putting rain sounds on YouTube. That made a difference as he woke less, but was too noisy for me. We moved him into his own room at nearly 7 months and we put rain sounds on all night. He sleeps much better now. I tend to dream feed him at 10.30ish and occasionally he sleeps till about 6. Normally I still have to feed him once or twice. It does get better but those months were just hellish. Hellish. I got through them by basically having no life for 3-4 months whilst I wasn't sleeping. You have my full sympathy!

[Cel982]

My DD had the same sort of sleep pattern, OP, it's really really hard. She used to wake every 45 minutes from when we put her down until I gave up and went to bed, then would sleep on me while feeding on and off all night. I was exhausted. Daytime naps were exactly 45 mins long and only in my arms. I tortured myself reading sleep books and trying to 'fix' it.

When she was about 9 months I tried controlled crying. It's my biggest regret and I still get upset when I think about it now. I know without a shadow of a doubt I will never ever try that with any future children I may have.

What helped? Learning more about infant sleep (Sarah Ockwell-Smith's stuff is really good) and realising that what DD was doing was completely normal. Working out how to co-sleep comfortably and safely and embracing it rather than seeing it as a last resort. Using a sling for daytime naps when I needed to get things done.

I know that's probably not what you want to hear, and obviously lots of people who have done CIO are very happy with the results. But that's my perspective having come out the other side of this. For us sleep improved massively around her first birthday.

[JonSnowsBeardClippings]

E gets more calories from milk than he would from solids.

[nopel]

DS was like this and it was a killer. He slept fine until four months , then started waking every 1.5 hours from 1am.

We ended up inadvertently sleep training at 4.5 months. We had a holiday booked and I broke my foot the day before we left, which made it difficult to get up to do the night feeds (breastfeeding).

Luckily we had two bedrooms in our apartment so DH took DS and shh-patted him when he woke up, only bringing him in for feeding if he couldn't get him back off. By then end of 10 days DS was sleeping 7 until 4-5am, quick feed and back to sleep. By 6 months he was sleeping through.

[stilllovingmysleep]

I wonder (genuinely curious) what posters feel happens when Controlled crying is used? What do you think happens to the baby?

Two things that do happen, as I see it, are: baby sleeps better and parents sleep better. Good sleep is essential for good mood. Parents much more rested, more responsive to baby etc. Baby winges less, more rested, happier. For the life of me, I can see no use to having a baby waking every 1-2 hours for sucking. This basically is a sleep association,
ie for every natural night time waking up (which happens as we know repeatedly with babies during night but also with all of us when we sleep), instead of the self soothing the baby needs to suck (on mum / bottle) in order to go to sleep. I don't actually think it's about comfort, it's about going back to sleep / it's a sleep association that can drive families completely mad because of sleep deprivation. It can also go on for months / years.

Plenty of comfort can be offered at all times of day but at night people need to sleep....

[YokoUhOh]

Milk supply is established and maintained/upped by feeding at night.

'Why Love Matters' is a good read, explaining using scientific evidence/studies why leaving small babies to cry is damaging and creates attachment issues.

[JonSnowsBeardClippings]

When young babies are left to cry they release high levels of cortisol. When this happens over long periods of time it has a detrimental effect on neural development, can disrupt attachment development and impact the interplay of the hormonal system of adrenaline, cortisol and dopamine.
It's not going to happen with a few nights of controlled crying properly done but leaving young babies to cry themselves to sleep is harmful.

[BertrandRussell]

You can't do controlled crying with a 4 month old. Even the man who invented it said it wasn't suitable for under 1s. A 4 month old is not old enough to understand at any level why he is being left alone. He barely knows he is not part of his mother still.

Oh, and if he's hungry he needs more milk, not food.

It's tough, I know but it will pass. What happens if you just keep him in bed with you and feed him lying down?

[UmbongoUnchained]

stillloveing really?

Does it not just go against all your instincts as a mother?

I never left my baby to cry, ever. And now at 20 months she is probably the most independent and confident of all her friends, while all the other ones who were left to cry are insecure and clingy.

[bluebunnyblue]

I have a non-sleeping 18mo. On her really bad nights we bedshare, which definitely gets me more sleep. You say you take him into bed with you in the early morning, but have you tried just bringing him in with you as soon as you want to go to bed?

I'd urge you not to leave him to cry. He's only little and he needs you, and it won't last forever (even though it feels like it now). Do whatever you can to get through this phase - go to bed early (same time as him), forget the housework. Can anyone watch him or take him out for a walk while you have a nap?

I have found Sarah Ockwell-Smith's books and blog very helpful, both for understanding what is actually normal for baby sleep and advice on how to cope. This post in particular would be a good read:

sarahockwell-smith.com/2015/05/14/ten-reasons-to-not-sleep-train-your-baby/

[LaurieLemons]

He is too young to have bad habits or understand why he's being left to cry. My DS wasn't the worst sleeper but he was so high needs and unsettled, I was constantly trying to figure out why he did this or why he did that, but in reality it's totally normal and most of us have been there, it WILL pass.

Try and change his routine up a bit, later/earlier bedtime, no point sticking to a routine if they're waking every couple of hours!

[CPtart]

Maybe not a popular idea but stopping bf solved our similar problems. Babies do need milk if hungry, but it doesn't have to be from the breast and it doesn't solely have to be you that gives it.
If you can't go on like this it's time for radical change. Your needs are as important as your child's, no more no less.

[TitusAndromedon]

My babies aren't quite as bad, although they have their nights, but I've been using the techniques recommended in the book Cheshire Baby Whisperer. They are very gentle and have been quite effective for us. One of my twins refused to nap anywhere except on me, and now he will nap very happily in his cotbed. Another friend was having a terrible time with naps, bedtimes and frequent wakings and, although it's not perfect, she has mostly managed to break the milk/sleep association and things are much improved. Just Google Cheshire Sleep Whisperer. You can order the book or download it as an ebook, and I think it's really worthwhile.

[MessyBun247]

I posted about this yesterday. My daughter turned 15 weeks yesterday (ebf and co-sleeping). She was a good sleeper since birth, roughly 9pm-8am with a quick feed at 2am and 5am then straight back to sleep. But since 13.5 weeks her sleep has been terrible! Lots of squirming and wriggling and trying to roll in her sleep, on a bad night she wants fed every hour with lots of comfort sucking too. I'm shattered!
I'm making sure she's napping well during the day (she will only nap for a good amount of time in my arms, and with white noise in the background). If she doesn't nap then she's so whingey

They are going through HUGE mental and physical changes at this age, and find it hard to switch off at night. They also need extra comfort from mum as they find the changes very overwhelming. I really don't think CIO would be a good idea until she's older. This difficult phase can last around a month, however if it seems to go on for much longer then maybe look at gentle sleep training methods. A lot of people are against introducing solids until 6 months but some people find that introducing them slightly earlier makes a difference with sleep. It's not for everyone though!

Right now I'm just accepting that it's going to be this way for a while, and I can see big developmental changes my DD every day now so it's worth it! Hard to see that sometimes when I'm exhausted but it won't last forever.

Sorry I'm rambling but just wanted to say I understand how you feel

[Fueledwithfairydustandgin]

My comment wasn't meant to sound patronising. I just am always confused about posts like this. Babies don't sleep well in general when they are very young. They cry because they need something. You will be so tired you can't remember your own name half the time. I don't think CIO is the solution. I genuinely think the solution is to go along with it.

[underrugsswept]

It sucks but it will pass. I don't agree with CIO anyway but 4 months is too young. Please don't leave your tiny baby crying alone in the dark wondering where you are.

Even those who do endorse it say it shouldn't be done before 6 months. Babies need to feed at night. It's torture but you need to adjust your expectations. My DS didn't sleep through consistent until he was well over 12 months.

[underrugsswept]

Totally agree with what jonsnow said about cortisol levels. Studies have been published on this.

[gamerchick]

You're talking about controlled crying not CIO, they're not the same.

He's still too young for it anyway.

What about co sleeping? It's easy to do safely and you don't wake fully unless they need a bum change, just bung them on and go back to sleep. Half wear a cardie though so shoulder is covered.

[Ifiwasabadger]

How do you know he's still not hungry?

You've just described my DD, she fed at least 4 times sometimes more, every night from birth until she was six months old. It was hell.

At which point we did a dream feed at 11 and she went through til 5.

I can understand that it's a shock if your baby was previously cracking out ten hours, but I think that is very unusual. Your current situation is far more normal!

I know it's awful, I was on my knees with sleep deprivation (and I went back to work at 5 months) but please don't leave them to CIO.

[museumum]

3-4mo regression is tough. I went to bed at 8pm. Dh moved to the spare room and ds and I coslept with me bfing lying down every hour or two (no idea as slept through most of it).
It only lasted a few weeks and ds went back in his cosleeper cot till 6mo then next door with only one night feed from then on.

It's awful but ime you don't need to "do" anything to fix it, just get through it.

[BearItInMind]

One problem with attempting to 'train' baby, when significant physical and mental growth means their sleep patterns change, is that you invariably have to keep training whenever they go through another change - which happens a lot in the first couple of years. Rather than trying to change the baby's behaviour, focus instead on dealing effectively with your tiredness. Bed-sharing can mean more sleep for everyone. Can you get someone else to watch baby for a couple of hours while you nap. Can your partner take some night wake ups with a bottle of pumped milk. I still, at 18 mths, use baby nap time for my downtime, sometimes I sleep, sometimes I just read mumsnet. I outsource or cut back on a lot of housework, cooking etc so that I am not over-stretched. Don't try to do too much in the day if you're tired, and it's OK to ask for (or pay for if possible) help. for you.

[Fueledwithfairydustandgin]

Agree with everything above

[stilllovingmysleep]

Worth saying that all the 'cortisol' studies that people refer to are based on children / babies who are grossly neglected / in orphanages etc. Nothing whatsoever to do with a normal family / a well looked after child whose parents to controlled crying (and I don't think the OP mentioned CIO but interesting how everyone mentions that continuously).

There is not a scrap of evidence, none at all, that doing sleep training harms babies. There is no evidence at all that it disrupts attachment security. There is on the other hand plenty of evidence that exhaustion can lead to mental health difficulties in mothers, including PND, and that is far far more detrimental that a couple of nights of CC. I work with children and families for years and I'm always amazed at the mumsnet version of what a 'traumatised child' means and what 'disruption of attachment' refers to. These terms have nothing whatsoever to do with what the OP describes.

[TooMinty]

I don't think it took too long - I was expecting DS1 to be awful because I fed him to sleep for 6 months so he was really used to it. I had also tried co-sleeping but he woke screaming every 40 minutes and had to be helped to latch on so I didn't get any more sleep. In fact I mostly just lay rigid waiting for him to wake up again! But it wasn't anywhere near as difficult as I thought.

I think maybe a week? Can't remember now!

I should add the disclaimer that this didn't lead to immediate sleeping through but dropped down to one feed per night which was much more reasonable. Then I night-weaned both of them at 7 months when they were well-established on solids and gaining weight steadily.