Totally fed up of 4 month sleep regression. Thoughts on CIO and moving to own room please

[MYA2016]

I've posted a few times recently about how my baby who used to sleep through 10 hours straight had stopped and was waking every few hours.
Everything I've read sounds just like 4m sleep regression although it started at 12 weeks (he's now 17 weeks).
He is ebf and sleeps in co-sleeping crib.
I can't take much more of these bad nights and they're getting worse. He is a nightmare for day naps... has 1 or 2 but only in my arms and probably for 45 min tops.
I'm fully aware this is probably contributing to his poor night time sleeping.

He goes to bed between 7.30-8pm. Bath, book, music and feed to sleep. Put him down.
Wakes within the hour.
DH goes up and rocks to sleep.
Wakes around 11.
I feed him to sleep.
Wakes around 1.30. Fed again.
Wakes around 3. Fed again.
Wakes around 4. Fed again.
Wakes around 5.30. Move him to our bed and feed again.
7.30 Wakes up for the day

I know he can't hungry all those times and feeding him is ridiculous but he'll suckle for 5 min or less and be asleep. The only time he'll go back to sleep without is first wake up of the night. DH gets up and tries rocking to sleep on other wakings despite having work in the mornings but this just results in an hour of none stop screaming

I can't go on like this. He needs sleep training. He's not having a growth spurt and he's not teething. He's just a really shit sleeper

Has anyone had success with CIO and also would you recommend moving to his own room for that? I've tried all other methods and nothing is working it's a joke.

[messire1980]

Hello

My baby is 14 weeks, he had/has mild reflux (we have it relatively under control now) however, he has been carried around most of his life and slept upright. For the past 5 weeks he has been sleeping peacefully in a sling on me - he loves it and can sleep for hours. I dont mind i like the extra cuddles but i cant really do much and i dont get a break so its hard and i worry he will never go for naps any way else if i carry on.

This week we gently sleep trained for the night time and he now sleeps through with 2 dream feeds at 11 and 3 and is happy in the morning! We also weaned him off his dummy so he is just about getting the hang of self soothing with his fingers and hands. The dummy was just waking him up and causing him less sleep.

We tried putting him in the cot in the day and gently training for this too but he was so upset i couldnt take it despite my soothing and my gut feeling just said it wasnt right so i have stopped.

My question is, does anyone else have or has had a baby that only naps in the sling? How did you transition them out without CIO or CC methods? Will he grow out of it as he gets older and be a little better at going down?

I know teaching them to sleep alone is an important lesson they mist learn but 14 weeks seems so small for me to make him cry so much.
I would love to hear from anyone else who is in a simialr situation.

Thanks

[teaandkitkats]

Hi OP, try www.babysleepmadesimple.com and good luck!

[minipie]

I did controlled crying at 4 months (not cio but what the op is describing is cc not cio)

It took one day of cc at each nap and at bedtime and she slept through the night THAT NIGHT (and thereafter, unless ill or teething). Down from 5/6 wakings per night.

Oh and she is now a very confident, non clingy child. I believe those cortisol studies relate to children who are neglected in orphanages (and never have any of their cries responded to ever) rather than cc.

[farfallarocks]

I feel your pain my ds started waking evey 2 hours at 12 weeks and i survived until 5 months and then I got very run down and ill with tonsillitis. I moved him to his own room and he slept 11 hours in a row. I of course did not sleep a wink. He now wakes up max once and it made me realise I was probably disturbing him with noise and the smell of my milk. I would move him and see what happens

[ALongTimeComing]

The only way we got through was co-sleeping. DH fought that for a while but he kept waking me and the baby up so she could go back in her cot. Fuck that! If you are awake then off you pop to the spare room. Every minute of my sleep is precious!

For day time naps try lying down beside baby and feeding and then when they drift off you can roll away.

I know it feels awful but it's not forever. Mines was exactly like yours and now sleeps in her cot all night and takes a long daytime nap in her cot too. You'll get there, your child will let you know when they are ready but for now they need you.

[Sparrowlegs248]

Sorry I haven't rtft. He sounds like my ds Op. Except mine was like it from the start,and never slept through. I started Co sleeping at 7 weeks because he was waking every 40 minutes. Things got better very soon after four months. I did have to work hard at the naps. I fed to sleep for two naps a day and let him sleep on me for as long as he wanted, or pram naps. Then after about 3 weeks, started transferring to the cot asleep. This coincided with him pitting himself on his front. He is put down on his front for all sleeps now. It's been a gradual process and is currently being messed up by teething, but has two naps a day, sometimes one will be almost two hours!!

He still wakes in the nightd but it's getting less and isn't disruptive as we Co sleep (wakes, latches on, sleeps)

I looked at various sleep training but have read many negative things about cio and cc. Basically (according to several specialists) it can be damaging to the baby. And often doesn't work long term.

[MangosteenSoda]

Your OP sounds very much like my DS. his sleep regression was a killer- lasted from 13 weeks to about 20 weeks!! He screamed like crazy as it neared bedtime, would only co sleep and couldn't stay asleep for longer than about 1h30 at the worst point. He would scream from 3 or 4am for at least an hour and would only sleep in my arms during the day. Truly soul destroying.

Basically, there is nothing you can do during the sleep regression. You have to wait for it to end. I had a lot of help from my parents because it happened when we were visiting the UK for the summer (worst holiday ever). I couldn't have coped without a lot of support. Take help wherever you can get it. You will know when it's ending. Baby just naturally starts to sleep for longer and you start to see light at the end of the tunnel.

Once the regression ended, my son would no longer co sleep and actually finds it difficult to sleep with anyone in the room at night. I would wait until 6 months to do sleep training though. Once the regression ends, you will start to discover what his natural sleep pattern will be. It might be great! If not, you need to understand it before you can work on it.

Lots of sympathy from me - I'm convinced I've still got ptsd from those 7 weeks!

[Skiptonlass]

Oh the four month regression is a killer...

But... I'm not sure cc is the way forward just yet. 4 mo is still so young. We have a seven month old who has never slept well. I've not had more than an hours sleep in a row since Christmas and I know how hard it is!

Our doc suggested cc so we tried it but he never fell asleep. He just got more and more upset then was up for the day at 5am as usual. Our doc had no solutions other than 'oh they should fall asleep after an hour or two.' Well that's no bloody use!

Anyway, I've noticed ours is starting to have separation anxiety so in my opinion cc is about the worst thing we could do. I co sleep and I will leave him for a bit if he's grumbling or 'not really upset' crying but I never leave him if he's upset crying. Ive found (again, just for my baby, not saying this works for everyone) that if he gets past a certain point of being upset then it takes a long time to calm him

If yours was a good sleeper, chances are they will be again, But the best way to do this may be to gently help them through not leave them to cry. I've found ours goes through periods of unsettled time followed by a period of calmer behaviour.

Practical tips:

Wall off a couple of hours a day each where your partner takes the baby and you sleep. My dh gets up early and takes him downstairs so I can get an hour of sleep. This helps hugely.
For naps: use pram or put them in bed with you. At the first sign of stirring boob back to sleep. Then nap yourself!

It's so tough. Cc isn't something I'd rule out totally but four months is too young. It will pass, everything is a phase.

[NotSoFancyHanky]

My ds same age went through the same a few weeks ago.
Also in a Snuzpod. I have zipped up the same and put about a foot away from my bed. We are both sleeping much better now. I am a very light sleeper and feel I was disturbing him. Worth a try?

[stilllovingmysleep]

Doing sleep training in a sensible, sensitive way, responding to the needs of all family members has nothing to do with not being a responsive, sensitive parent. Most parents who do sleep training are responsive, sensitive parents. And yes of course any child psychologist would tell you parents should be responsive to their children's needs. But I've never met any child mental health professionalnot one in all the years I've worked in the fieldthat would say the things I only read on MN about absolute, total, through the night and day responsiveness. That helps no one.

[BertrandRussell]

"lso 'resorted' to DD napping on me during the day, not ideal I know but I was so desperate for her to sleep and it's meant I could sleep too."

Why isn't it ideal?

[Gingernut81]

MYA I was in your position a few months ago, DD has never slept or napped well. We moved her into her own room at around 4.5/5 months with a sensor pad - she'd just wake up whenever we went to bed when in with us. On the advice of a HV last month I stopped offering feeds during the night, she still woke but could be cuddled back to sleep quickly. She's now 7.5 months and I was referred to a sleep HV who said if I can cope with it then try CC (she did say they need to be at least 6 months before resorting to this). I know this doesn't help now but keep looking forward although I know that's not easy to do.

I also 'resorted' to DD napping on me during the day, not ideal I know but I was so desperate for her to sleep and it's meant I could sleep too.

I really feel for you, it's hard. If you've got any relatives/friends who'll sit for an hour or so bite their hand off!

[Cel982]

stillloving, Western society has normalised the idea of not responding to a distressed baby to a degree that would be considered cruel and abusive if we were to apply the same treatment to a distressed adult. Regardless of whether there's evidence of harm later on. (I agree that the cortisol studies aren't particularly indicative of anything, although you're wrong that they were all carried out in orphanage-type situations - the most commonly-cited one was done through one of those Australian 'sleep schools', which are pretty mainstream.)

Any child psychologist will tell you about the need for responsive parenting in the early years. I don't know of any of the self-appointed 'sleep experts' who are actually qualified in infant psychology.

[heyhulahoop]

(and I don't think the OP mentioned CIO but interesting how everyone mentions that continuously

Well it's in the thread title , but yes it became clear further down the thread that she meant cc.

[TooMinty]

I don't think it took too long - I was expecting DS1 to be awful because I fed him to sleep for 6 months so he was really used to it. I had also tried co-sleeping but he woke screaming every 40 minutes and had to be helped to latch on so I didn't get any more sleep. In fact I mostly just lay rigid waiting for him to wake up again! But it wasn't anywhere near as difficult as I thought.

I think maybe a week? Can't remember now!

I should add the disclaimer that this didn't lead to immediate sleeping through but dropped down to one feed per night which was much more reasonable. Then I night-weaned both of them at 7 months when they were well-established on solids and gaining weight steadily.

[stilllovingmysleep]

Worth saying that all the 'cortisol' studies that people refer to are based on children / babies who are grossly neglected / in orphanages etc. Nothing whatsoever to do with a normal family / a well looked after child whose parents to controlled crying (and I don't think the OP mentioned CIO but interesting how everyone mentions that continuously).

There is not a scrap of evidence, none at all, that doing sleep training harms babies. There is no evidence at all that it disrupts attachment security. There is on the other hand plenty of evidence that exhaustion can lead to mental health difficulties in mothers, including PND, and that is far far more detrimental that a couple of nights of CC. I work with children and families for years and I'm always amazed at the mumsnet version of what a 'traumatised child' means and what 'disruption of attachment' refers to. These terms have nothing whatsoever to do with what the OP describes.

[Fueledwithfairydustandgin]

Agree with everything above

[BearItInMind]

One problem with attempting to 'train' baby, when significant physical and mental growth means their sleep patterns change, is that you invariably have to keep training whenever they go through another change - which happens a lot in the first couple of years. Rather than trying to change the baby's behaviour, focus instead on dealing effectively with your tiredness. Bed-sharing can mean more sleep for everyone. Can you get someone else to watch baby for a couple of hours while you nap. Can your partner take some night wake ups with a bottle of pumped milk. I still, at 18 mths, use baby nap time for my downtime, sometimes I sleep, sometimes I just read mumsnet. I outsource or cut back on a lot of housework, cooking etc so that I am not over-stretched. Don't try to do too much in the day if you're tired, and it's OK to ask for (or pay for if possible) help. for you.

[museumum]

3-4mo regression is tough. I went to bed at 8pm. Dh moved to the spare room and ds and I coslept with me bfing lying down every hour or two (no idea as slept through most of it).
It only lasted a few weeks and ds went back in his cosleeper cot till 6mo then next door with only one night feed from then on.

It's awful but ime you don't need to "do" anything to fix it, just get through it.

[Ifiwasabadger]

How do you know he's still not hungry?

You've just described my DD, she fed at least 4 times sometimes more, every night from birth until she was six months old. It was hell.

At which point we did a dream feed at 11 and she went through til 5.

I can understand that it's a shock if your baby was previously cracking out ten hours, but I think that is very unusual. Your current situation is far more normal!

I know it's awful, I was on my knees with sleep deprivation (and I went back to work at 5 months) but please don't leave them to CIO.

[gamerchick]

You're talking about controlled crying not CIO, they're not the same.

He's still too young for it anyway.

What about co sleeping? It's easy to do safely and you don't wake fully unless they need a bum change, just bung them on and go back to sleep. Half wear a cardie though so shoulder is covered.

[underrugsswept]

Totally agree with what jonsnow said about cortisol levels. Studies have been published on this.

[underrugsswept]

It sucks but it will pass. I don't agree with CIO anyway but 4 months is too young. Please don't leave your tiny baby crying alone in the dark wondering where you are.

Even those who do endorse it say it shouldn't be done before 6 months. Babies need to feed at night. It's torture but you need to adjust your expectations. My DS didn't sleep through consistent until he was well over 12 months.

[Fueledwithfairydustandgin]

My comment wasn't meant to sound patronising. I just am always confused about posts like this. Babies don't sleep well in general when they are very young. They cry because they need something. You will be so tired you can't remember your own name half the time. I don't think CIO is the solution. I genuinely think the solution is to go along with it.

[MessyBun247]

I posted about this yesterday. My daughter turned 15 weeks yesterday (ebf and co-sleeping). She was a good sleeper since birth, roughly 9pm-8am with a quick feed at 2am and 5am then straight back to sleep. But since 13.5 weeks her sleep has been terrible! Lots of squirming and wriggling and trying to roll in her sleep, on a bad night she wants fed every hour with lots of comfort sucking too. I'm shattered!
I'm making sure she's napping well during the day (she will only nap for a good amount of time in my arms, and with white noise in the background). If she doesn't nap then she's so whingey

They are going through HUGE mental and physical changes at this age, and find it hard to switch off at night. They also need extra comfort from mum as they find the changes very overwhelming. I really don't think CIO would be a good idea until she's older. This difficult phase can last around a month, however if it seems to go on for much longer then maybe look at gentle sleep training methods. A lot of people are against introducing solids until 6 months but some people find that introducing them slightly earlier makes a difference with sleep. It's not for everyone though!

Right now I'm just accepting that it's going to be this way for a while, and I can see big developmental changes my DD every day now so it's worth it! Hard to see that sometimes when I'm exhausted but it won't last forever.

Sorry I'm rambling but just wanted to say I understand how you feel