At what point would you seek medical intervention to help you child to sleep?

[popsycal]

I have thougth about posting this thread for a fortnight but have avoided it as I think I may be putting myself in the firing line.

But it's Friday night so here we go.


How bad would it have to get for you to consider taking your baby/child to you GP to get some help in getting them to sleep for a longer stretch at night?

Not thinking specifically of medication although I am sure that is on option that a Gp may offer.

Would really appreciate some constructive comments and not being sent to Mumsnet coventry.....

tia

[alp]

what about (and it is a bit softly softly shush) the baby whisperer thing - pick up, calm down, then the second calm - back in cot - nd keep doing until asleep..........you never know - have to be tough on a day when you feel motivated (if you can get those with the lack of sleep)

Hope you are OK and get some sleep soon!!!

[foxinsocks]

poor you - hope you get a better night.

[Blandmum]

can you get your dh to do a few nights so that you can get some sleep. With that little sleep for that long, I'm not surprised that you can't face cc....or anything else for that matter.

You need some rest, and if your dh does a few sleepless nights you might find him more supportive in whatever strategy you choose to use.

[popsycal]

right stuff this
he is now screaming in his room and has been for 15 mins
i have just walked out
i cant bear this

[apronstrings]

my ds1 did this for a year - and it nearly killed me and didn't help our marriage! He once slept 5 hours - literally once, but other than that we were up about 5 times a night. I can't do the cc thing either - just can't so I know where your coming from on that front.Our Ds was also a whinge bag during the day. I am really sorry to tell you that I don't remember how things got resolved (he is 8 now). I know I had reached the end of my rope and wonder if he sensed it! I think I was somewhat firm with him. My Dh went away for a week with work and when he came back I had "fixed" Ds. I say to people now that it was like someone switched the baby, although I know it has to be something I did, because of the timing. I think you sound like you are doing really well - not being selfish, you are probably the cornerstone of your family and sleep deprivation is known to do horrendous things to a person. Hang in there - get help from drs if you can, and know that this wont go on for ever. Will be thinking about you

[popsycal]

he is a whingy clinging baby too
dont get me wrong he is gorgoues and funny too

i had to just go back into him
he was retching with crying so much
he is asleep now (i think) in his cot
he had been asleep less than 2 hours

[popsycal]

oh god i just dont know what to do
it is driving me insane
i have ready every book, tried everything i can think of, that other 'well meaning' friends and family have suggested

now 3 of my friends who have younger babies than ds2 have 12 hours a night sleeping babies and i get 'the look' when i reply to the 'is he still not sleeping through' question!!!!

[Hattie05]

Popsycal you have my sympathies, and i have been where you are.

At 15mths i felt like you - dd taking an hour to get to fall asleep with a breastfeed and then me having to crawl out of the room once she was in a deep sleep. Four hours later she'd wake and feed again, and due to my inability to stay awake i'd bring her into bed with us, where she would feed from me frequently.

So at 15mths i got rid of the cot and put a matress in her room and i swear this helped an enormous amount as the one thing she hated was removed. Don't get me wrong there were no miracles overnight but at least she no longer freaked as soon as i put her in a cot.

I also started telling her that i would read 3 stories and then leave the room - she needed to stay in her bed and go to sleep. At first she'd scream the minute the third story ended so i'd firmly tell her i was going to leave the room and shut the door until she stopped crying. I did so for a couple of minutes at a time, then go in cuddle her and settle back into bed and sit further and further away each time until she fell asleep. Until eventually i could sit outside her door and she would stay in her bed etc. and finally not need to stay at all - so long as i'd read the three stories and got her in a calm state.

As soon as she managed to go to sleep alone, she started staying asleep for longer periods of time. By the time she was two i had weaned her off breastfeeding. And she was waking once in the night, normally sometime after 3am, and getting in our bed and staying asleep til morning. Now she is 3 we have finally mastered getting her to stay in her bed allnight using bribes and a reward chart.

I hope this helps you, it is extremely stressful at the time, but it won't last forever and once you sort it, it all seems so far in the distant past.

Good luck x

[Hattie05]

Don't let those comments bother you.

I was a smug mother, from 3 - 6mths my dd slept 12 hours, it won't last .

[charmkin]

I think maybe some kids find it really hard to get themselves to sleep and so if you settle them then when they semi wake up in the night, turning over or whatever they expect the same routine -be it breastfeeding to sleep or patting or whatever. CC is sooooooooo hard but it does teach them and the older they get the harder it is I suppose.

You have my sympathy, dd didn't sleep through until 18 months and she still wakes at 6.She is 6. Ds still rocked to sleep and he's 12 months. But have managed to get him off the boob in the last week which seems to help. A 8 oz bottle knocks him out like I never could!

[liath]

Hi Popsycal,
This sounds so grim for you. I'm kind of thinking aloud so feel free to ignore....

One way of looking at this is from your ds's perspective - what are his emotions and what is he getting out of it, what is his reward for waking? Also, are you getting something out of it that's missing elsewhere in your life - perhaps some closeness & affection?? Forgive me if I'm out of line but often these situations can perpetuate because something is driving them IYSWIM.

TBH if I was you I'd be trying some phenergan to break the cycle, but that's just me & it wouldn't be right for everyone. I can sympathise with the sleep deprivation having had it when dd was young & I had insomnia & PND - I took sleeping tablets myself to break the vicious cycle of not sleeping at that point.

Sorry for rambling.

[charmkin]

Sorry, didn't answer the question. I think there are sleep clinics, or sleep nanny trainer type people. I would try that before drugs because as you say it is habit, not medical.

[FrannyandZooey]

Oh golly popsycal I don't know what to advise, but just wanted you to know you are not the only one that's been in this situation. It really does make you feel that you are stupid and have got it wrong sometimes, doesn't it? I stopped discussing it with other mothers in general as it just makes you feel worse.

The only thing that helped us was co-sleeping, so I never had to get out of bed, and getting a very large bed so ds was not disturbed so much by me and dp. However it has been a very very long 3 years. He has only just started sleeping through and moved into his own room.

[threebob]

He is probably whingy and clingy because he is tired. This means that it is affecting him too - not just you and so yes I think that's bed enough to rate a trip to the docs.

A few nights of antihistamines changed our life when we started ds on them (for other reasons). Now he only has them twice a week but always sleeps through the night.

It might be what you need to break the cycle.

[geekgrrl]

popsy, I'm afraid I'm completely ruthless here and happily drug my children when I need more sleep.
I'm no martyr. My dd2 is a spectacularly poor sleeper and at 5 can be up up to 8 times per night almost every night. It doesn't affect her for some reason but it completely knackers us, so she gets drugged.
Ds was prescribed a sedative at 10 months old because he was such a poor sleeper - again, not a problem for him as he could catch up in the day, but a big problem for me. The sedatives sorted him out.
I too tried everything else. I'd had enough. I didn't just get something OTC but went to my GP, and it all worked extremely well.

[threebob]

Drugs will allow him to break the habit though, and it will be easier to rationally decide on a next step when popsycal has had some sleep.

[sansouci]

I used meds as a last resort but only when I realised I was so out of my mind with sleep deprivation that I was about to do something stupid. On paed's recommendation. After 3 nights, we had to stop the med but ds continued to sleep through. Thank God.

Only as a last resort, though. With dd, we checked on her every 20 minutes & eventually she'd wear herself out. She also used to cry so hard she'd vomit. It was heartbreaking.

[doobydoo]

popsycal..poor you and your baby.Have to say have been through it..and i used phenergan[sp]not all the time but when we had had a period of 3 or 4 nights of awfulness and it did the trick.Ds slept.At first i found it hard to sleep as i wasn't used to it but honestly it was a sanity saviour.Good luck with your decision.I haven't read the rest of this thread yet so will read it now.

[Albert]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but DS was a disaster when it came to sleeping - he didn't actually go through the night until he was 3!!! We lived in Denmark at the time and the Drs would not give anything. After being threatened with eviction from the neighbours I demanded to see a paed. who didn't/wouldn't help either. When ever I was in England in my parents detached house I did the controlled crying thing - full blown version, 2 and 1/2 hours later DS was still crying although within 3 days we had conquered it. However, it only lasted about a month and then we were back to square one. TBH for the first three years I was a total wreck, I almost lost my job and even took my case to New York (I worked for the United Nations, HQ is in NY) claiming it would be unfair dismissal - I won!
None of this will help you of course but thought you might like to know that you are not alone and if you can get medication for sleeping in the UK then go for it asap. My life didn't get back to normal until DS was about 4 (it took a year of sleeping full nights to 'get my life back together')
But I wouldn't change him for the world!!

[geekgrrl]

just to echo what others have said - drugs really helped mine to break the habit. TBH I'd rather give a sedative than do controlled crying (if the child is as persistent as mine were with crying!)

[threebob]

I've got to say that a few nights of a drug which has been tested has got to be better than vomit and crying for 3 hours, which would lead to the body being flooded with chemicals (cortisol)anyway.

[Heathcliffscathy]

popsycal, agree that don't know how you have maintained your sanity....you poor things.

look, is cc out of the question.

very very early on, i read a thing on mn and i might be worng but i think it was cod (!) saying, look, so what if you can't hear them crying, if they are well, and they are safe, they need to sleep. now that might not have been cod, but it was someone and although it sounded really harsh what it did do was make me realise that we all needed to sleep more and that ds wasn't ill or unsafe and just needed to learn somehow that he could wake up, could go back to sleep himself and could survive that.

i know i'll be slated for this, but i do think that whilst drugs are definitely to be used as a last resort, that they really should be the last resort.

how long is the longest time you've ever left him to cry.

he is 15 months now, and so i really think that you both (both you and him) need to believe that waking, crying head off, falling back asleep, is surviveable.

i'm sorry if i'm being useless or sounding cruel and heartless, but i honestly think there is nothing as destructive as the feelings that you can get when you are tortured by sleep deprivation.

[geekgrrl]

Why do it have to be the last resort? If you can break the habit by giving a tested, safe antihistamine with no side effects for a week, or do the full-blown, vomit-inducing, sobbing-in-their-sleep-for-hours hysteria you get with controlled crying, why is cc the better option?