Support thread for sleep deprived parents doing or considering CC

[babybouncer]

Seeing as our last thread got a little hijacked off track, a new one seemed a excellent idea.

DD is 7months old and I'm about to start night 2. Last night took 90mins to settle, including a longish quiet time. This afternoon's nap took a long time, but in both cases she slept week once asleep.

Fingers crossed for tonight!

Ps please don't post any anti-cc comments - it's not something a parent does lightly so I ask that you respect our decision.

[TENDTOprocrastinate]

Cc works. It really does. A lot of mn seem to be anti (most of whom have terrible sleepers as dc as they havent tried it)I believe it works from a very early age... Ie 6 weeks ish (waits for a flaming) my (5) dc have slept 12 hours at night from 12 weeks. Happy content babies. Happy content family.

It's not like u just leave them to cry- the bubs are checked on- shhhhhhhed, loved.

Best of luck x

[ElphabaTheGreen]

There's a nice old CC hooley going down on the Behaviour/Development forum which has raised one query for me. If/when DS EVER shakes this cough and we can get this sleep sorted, I had intended to still feed at night when he wakes. I don't mind doing this as long as I can put him straight back in his cot afterwards, which is the main thing I can't do at the moment. Would I be undermining whatever I was doing sleep-training-wise by doing this? And would my boobs explode?

[discombobwotsit]

hi elphaba sorry to hear your poor ds still has his cough, hope he gets rid of it soon. How has he been after the cranial osteopathy? We took ds2 yesterday and he was quite calm after but struggled to nap in the afternoon + took an hour to settle for bed. Going to try another session in two weeks.

As for the feeding thing, I've been feeding on the first waking, which on nights 1+2 was after 9hrs and 7hrs so thought he needed it - but he didn't really settle afterwards each time so think I was disturbing him more.

So last night we said dh would try to settle first - but ds2 didn't wake till 5.45am, which was 11hrs! I fed him + he was wide awake so just got him up, and he went for a nap within an hour. I have to say my boobs were a tad uncomfortable when I woke up, but I remember with ds1 that the supply adjusted very quickly.

I actually got over 7 hours solid sleep last night before I woke to check on him, then an extra 1.5hrs before he woke up, so I feel pretty good today

And pleased to hear magoosmom had another peaceful night, let's hope it continues

[magoosmom]

disco 11 hours wow! you must be thrilled today! When DS was that young I remember never being quite sure whether to feed or not and it got ridiculous with him feeding every hour or two all night long, I gave up BF at 7 months because of it. At least with a bottle I knew what he had drank previously and could decide based on that what was reasonable during the night.

Elphaba maybe give him a feed around 10/11am and then don't feed between midnight and 6am, I know a friend of mine had this rule and it worked well for her.

Ds went to sleep easily enough, he cried for about 30/40 seconds, then stopped, cried again, stopped, cried again, I found it hard. He woke at 1.20am and did the same on and off crying, never crying for more than 1 minute at a time but I felt awful, took me ages to go back to sleep, I hope he wasnt scared anyway he went back to sleep til 6.30am which was great. Myself and DH havent decided really what to do in the middle of the night, we've been lucky that he's never cried for long but Id hate to leave him CIO of an hour during the night in case he was sick, I think if he's still crying after 5 mins I will go into him, reassure him and then leave again, what do you think? DH thinks this will ruin what we've started.

[discombobwotsit]

magoosmom yes, I'm very pleased with how well its going, considering where we were under a week ago - I was at rock bottom + really needed things to change, apparently so did ds2, as he's taken to it really quickly! Even if we have a bad night now, I will be much more able to cope as I've caught up a tiny bit.

Re going in during the night, I'm sure I read somewhere that as long as you vary the time taken to respond then they don't learn that a certain amount of crying earns attention, iyswim? Having said that, I probably would only go in if the crying was distressed and would ignore angry or protest crying.

Anyway, I hope you don't have to test that tonight + that he sleeps well

[Saltytomato]

elpha in the Ferber book (he invented cry it out/progressive waiting) he says it is ok to feed to sleep and you can just do the progressive waiting for when you put your baby down afterwards. I chose a time that I thought was suitable (after 3am) and wouldn't feed him until after that.

I still feed my baby to sleep and I was doing a feed at 5am too, but last night he woke up at 1.30am so I didn't feed him and just did the progressive waiting, and then he didn't wake up again until 7.30am! So didn't have a night feed at all, but the bastards next door woke me up at 6.00am bashing around screaming at each other whilst they got ready for work.

[Saltytomato]

magoo the progressive waiting approach means that you go in and comfort (I pick him up and make sure he doesn't need to burp the first time i go in) and then stroke his hair for a minute or 2. The intention isn't to stop him crying, but just to let him know that you are there for him, but you are not going to feed/cuddle etc.

You time the intervals, so on the first night I did 2 minutes/5 minutes/8 minutes/10 minutes and then every 10 minutes until I could tell he was starting to settle.

The next night you start at 5 mins/10 minutes/15 minutes and continuing every 15 minutes.

Don't go in if you can hear them starting to settle.

I did this with my baby last week and he took to it amazingly well, barely any crying and he is still the happiest little guy during the day, well happier now he is getting more sleep! Full of smiles and cuddles, so obviously not psychologically damaged!

He slept from 7pm-7.30am last night....a week ago he was waking 5 times.

I read the Ferber sleep training book from cover to cover so if you need any advice then ket me know.

:)

[magoosmom]

Thanks for that salty I've been very lucky he hasn't cried for longer than a minute or two during the night so I've never had to go in, he didn't even cry tonight (yet) I'm was just worried in case some night he was sick I wouldn't want him to be crying for ages in pain, if he sleeps well the next few days then I'll know if he wakes crying there must be something wrong. DS has sleeps almost 12 hours straight since Monday and the irony is I'm still constantly waking up !

[discombobwotsit]

ha ha magoo I remember with ds1 that it took me ages to learn how to sleep through again once he stopped waking me up! Far longer than it took him in fact.

With the being sick thing, we've found that ds1 will settle easily once we've been in to check him/clean him up - once he'd learnt to self settle he hasn't lost that skill.

ds2 went a step backward last night, being awake 2.30 to 4am and again 5.45 to 6.15, but he did settle himself eventually after feeding, with only minor whinging so hopefully just a small blip.

[magoosmom]

well I'm definately glad I sorted his sleep out this week cos.......I just got a BFP

[memememum]

I have been reading this thread the last couple of nights. Currently hiding under the covers whilst VeryDH tries to help ds get used to staying in cot instead of constant bf. Dh is being v gentle, reassuring, etc but still lots of crying (sad)

[ElphabaTheGreen]

magoo Congratulations!

[chubbymomie2012]

I have an almost 9 month old who I posted about a few months ago as he was wakening every hour, i was considering controlled crying but the response was horrific and i was talked into this non crying thing were I brought him back to bed with us (much to my OH disgust i add) DISASTER now yes he sleeps for 3-4 hours at a time but we dont. he lies in awkward positions he thumps kicks allsorts. and hes awake at 0530 for the day and cos im off work i get up then too. I'm sooooooooooooo tired i have aged 10 years in the last 6 months and im toonwrecked to do anything with the other 3 kids. please help. i'm going to start controlled crying tonight. I need to do something. can u tell me how to start or give me tips. The room he is in is one he shares with his older brother who is 2. please help.......

[ElphabaTheGreen]

Hi chubby - I notice you've posted this on the main sleep board as well. Be prepared for that getting nasty as well! Touch wood, the anti-CC brigade seem to be leaving us alone here.

A two year old in the same room...is there anywhere else he/she could go while you do the CC, just for a few nights? I think you'd have a struggle with the two of them in there.

If you read through the previous posts you can see how others have done CC, and MN also have a good advice section on sleep training here.

[ElphabaTheGreen]

Sorry meme - didn't mean to ignore you there. Hope everything's going OK for you. How did things turn out?

[beyoglu]

Chubby, we got the Millpond sleep clinic book and it says for controlled crying basically:

• have a bedtime routine that's about half an hour long, not more than 45 minutes, and includes a bath. Keep it calm and quiet etc, and have the last feed of the night "downstairs" - you know, not in the bedroom.
  
• put the baby down to sleep and go out of the room. Start your stopwatch.
  
• if they are still crying after 5 minutes, go back in, check on them and say something like "OK darling, time to sleep." Try not to touch them, and don't wait until they stop crying, just say your piece and go.
  
• if they are still going repeat 10 minutes later, and then 15 minutes after that, and then every 15 minutes so if you put them down at 7 and they keep crying you would go in at 7.05, 7.15 (10 mins after the first visit), 7.30, 7.45, 8pm etc
  
• be prepared that on the first few nights they might cry for longer than an hour. If you "break" and pick them up after you've left them crying for an hour, they'll learn that they need to cry for an hour to get you to pick them up. So if you don't think you can last it out don't do it!
  

We did it with our 6m twins a couple of weeks ago and their sleep improved dramatically in one night. It was amazing.

Having said that, now I have a question for everyone else...

I am trying to iron out a sleep problem with one of my girls. OK so I have 6m twin girls, we started CC with them a couple of weeks ago for naps and nighttime and now they go down to sleep within a couple of minutes and with a couple of exceptions which I'll outline, they sleep through from 7.30 till 7am. They're FF and on solids 3 times a day.

OK so - we wake both of them to give them a bottle at 11pm, then they go back to sleep. DT1 sleeps right through but DT2 wakes at about 4.30 or 5, moans/cries for about 20 minutes and then goes back to sleep. We do the CC thing of going back in to check on her at 5 mins, then 10 mins later etc. We've also tried giving her water (not interested), checked her nappy (empty), calpol at 11 in case it's teething pain, none of them has worked.

Any ideas?

[chubbymomie2012]

hey peeps,
thanks so so much for all your advice, you were right the independant thread I posted regardinga Controlled Crying prompted a private mail from a person who thinks im damaging the baby and should be reported to social services.....
Anyway i have started controlled crying and after about 40 mins he is asleep. now I just need to try to hold my nerve and do it all when he wakes thru the night.
I have temp moved his big bro out untill this has all been done. thanks for the help I may need more before morning :-)

[ElphabaTheGreen]

I cannot believe you got PMed with that. Absolutely awful - report it to MNHQ! That is disgusting.

I couldn't help but put my oar in to the latest CC bunfight over on another board and I'll say it again here - if someone decides to either not breastfeed or stop breastfeeding because they don't feel they can cope with the commitment involved, they get nothing but support on here e.g. 'you have to do what's best for you and your family', 'happy mummy, happy baby', 'never mind it's not that big in the scheme of things'. If someone decides to sleep train because they don't feel they can cope with the horrible exhaustion anymore, they get borderline (or actual) abuse. I really don't see the difference, and I just don't get it.

[PropositionJoe]

All of this - CC, PUPD, cry it out, gradual withdrawal - is just names for teaching your baby to self settle. It is essential that they learn this, and that they get enough sleep as babies and as children. Everything else hinges on it - health, education, behaviour. I have no doubt AT ALL in my mind that you are doing the right thing.

[AnyaKnowIt]

Cubbymomie - how is it going?

Congrats magmoo

[discombobwotsit]

congrats magoo

chubbymomie sorry to hear you had such a nasty message.

How cowardly is someone who would pm another poster, surely the whole point is to post your views openly for discussion? And anyway, they are wrong, as none of the studies found any lasting effects of cc/sleep training carried out by caring parents in a loving environment.

I think people also need to consider what is more detrimental for baby - long term sleep deprivation in both baby + mum (and/or dad) OR a few tears for a few nights (and in most cases it is only a few). I can state with absolute certainty that sleep deprivation was rapidly pushing me towards pnd, as well as being completely unsafe to drive!

Good luck to everyone currently going through this, hope it works quickly for you

[rhetorician]

reading with interest: dd2 is almost a year; she has never slept through. A good night would involve 3 wake-ups - 8ish, 11ish and about 3. We have had enough...it's not been helped by numerous colds/ear infections, and she has also as a consequence ended up in our bed after the 11 wake-up. We are steeling ourselves to do CC.

[chubbymomie2012]

hey peeps,
so far so good. the wee man has just woken for the first time. i did give him a dream feed at 11 so. i know he isnt hungrey. hes been cryung sort of on and off for 10 mins butbid say it wont last much longer. Rhetorician now is def the time to do cc. i am so knackered i have the will and determination to stick to it good luck. 😃

[GirlWithTheMouseyHair]

rhetorician was about to post almost exactly the same as you - DD is 1 next week so I think older than most babies on this thread

I've tried CC with her twice (at 7 and 9 months) and ended it after 3 nights of steadily worse hsyterics from both of us, deciding neither of us were ready. She's now totally nightweaned and appears to wake for no apparent reason, cue 2+hours at least trying to get her back to sleep - I'm ready to try CC again but worry she might be one of those very few babies who just can't handle it.

Used it succesfully on DS at 10mo so I'm def not in the anti-camp, just wondering if everyone's trying it for the first time or are coming back to it having tried unsuccessfully in the past when their babies were younger?

[magoosmom]

girl we tried it at 7 months and gave up. Worked really fast this time at 14 months, he had been waking 6-8 a nights and waking any time from 5am,was a nightmare since last Mon night hes slept 12 hours in his own cot, waking maybe once or twice for 5 mins, it is hard I hate* hearing him cry but feel I've no option.