What worked for us. Hope this helps.

[nectarina]

This post is going to be massive - no apologies however.

So I've posted at least 5 queries about DD's sleep and read about 1 billion threads, because DD only napped for 30mins  in the day, would only BF to sleep (since a newborn I wanted to get out of the habit, but nothing else did it). She spent  the first 5 months in her cot, only for us to end up co-sleeping so we could get a bit of rest. She would BF every 2 hours at  least in the night, and by the end she'd wake every half hour before we went to bed. I knew I couldn't do CC/CIO, I'm not  strong enough even if I thought that was the right thing to do, but I thought that I would be forced to if things carried on  the way they were.

We read No Cry Sleep Solution, which is complicated and didn't work for us.

So a friend had tried a technique, that she recommended and I thought that it was too much of a leap for DD, but i kept  the email, and one evening I sort of snapped and decided that IT WAS TIME. DD was  8 1/2months. I don't know from  what age this technique is recommended, but I don't think I'd have wanted to do this earlier, as you still have to cope with  the baby crying. I knew DD was ready because now she quite clearly has two cries - one properly sad and scared, the  other a bit shouty and put on, so when doing this technique you know what's going on (but I'd like to add that I still  comforted DD when she was shouty - she's still trying to say something, but I deÞ nitely wouldn't pick her up and panic!)

 I'll paste her email to me, hoping she won't mind. We didn't do it in the ten days, as it was just a bit too much, but i wonder if the way we did it made things a bit complicated. So I recommend doing it as laid out.  

But now DD takes 20mins to fall asleep by herself (with one of us in her room) in her cot, in her room. and I do not feed at  all between 7pm and 7am. Dh goes in in the night and he gives her water in case she's thirsty but she's quite happy  without. It takes him no more than about 3mins to resettle her (unless ill).

After starting this at the beginning of January  she still wakes up once or twice a night but it doesn't affect me as I wear earplugs and DH goes in! ha ha ha! (I still hear  her and wake up, but I don't wake up fully and find it difFicult to go back to sleep) Do I need to tell you how I feel like a  different woman?

So here's the email -  

^"Ok, this is a plan thing that we first tried with dc1 when we got to the point where we knew something had to change. There seems to come a point where not only do you get tired of 'helping' your baby get to sleep, but whatever you do seems to work less and less - as if they know something has to change too! It takes a bit of work for about ten days or so but mostly the first couple of days you really put your back into it and then it gets easier. I remember vaguely doing it with dc1 and have just rediscovered it with Dc2 she is a bit of a firecracker so I was expecting trouble but babies love to learn something new, especially around this age and she only woke once last night despite having a cold, which is a HUGE improvement. Dc1 found this very easy and never shed a tear. Dc2 screamed 'TRAITOR!!' at me many times during the first night (she does that a lot), so I'm not saying that there won't be some crying because you will be doing something different to before but you don't have to leave her side and can reassure her as much as you need to, physically and verbally. 
The idea is that you are no longer going to help her go to sleep - in whatever way - if you rock her, feed her, jiggle her, whatever it is. You can be there and reassure her but it is no longer your job to MAKE her go to sleep. It is your job to support her whilst she does it herself. 
First of all, you know that thing that everyone says about having a bedtime routine (which I imagine you already have) is utterly true. By the time they are a toddler, the sound of a running bath is enough to set the bedtime clock going. When you choose to do this thing, it is really important to stick to your bedtime routine without fail for the ten days and it needs to be between 20 and 45 minutes long. Also, this plan also applies to naps, so you need to be able to be at home for naptimes - just until Dd has the thing established - ten days usually does it. Lastly, you are aiming for Dd to be in bed by 7ish in the evening and not much later. If you're like me you're knackered by about half four, so starting bedtime at a quarter past six is no trouble. You've probably done all that so on to the plan. I'll do bedtimes first and then naps. 

Day 1, 2 and 3 - Place a chair right next to the cot. Make it a comfortable chair, you may get to know it fairly well. Have a duvet, cushions, iphone, book to hand. Do your bedtime routine and put Dd in the cot awake. She may well not know what to do next and try all sorts of things. If she stands up you can gently pop her back down again but only a few times - if she insists on standing for a bit then let her - it may just be one of those things she incorporates into her own burgeoning routine, and I daresay she is capable of getting back down again by now. You can pat the bed to let her know you want her to lie down. Sooner or later she is likely to sit down for a bit and eventually plop on to her front. She has to find her own way through this so she may try eating her blanket or playing with a toy before she lies down - that's up to her. If she cries, you can pat her and speak to her. As long as you remember that your patting and comforting is not there to get her to sleep, just to help her calm down in this new and confusing situation so as soon as she starts to settle, lighten your touch with a view to taking your hand off her, and stop speaking. She may go back and forth a bit needing you to touch and speak to her a few more times, but each time lessen your touch when she has settled. Stay there until she has fallen fast asleep and creep out. This bit can take ten minutes for some babies, but most fall asleep after 45 minutes. Two hours is the longest on record! I expected Dc2 to be a two hour effort but no - 45 minutes almost exactly. As long as you know that it is going to take that long, you can get through it. When she wakes up in the night, you do exactly the same thing, each and every time. The first few times she wakes, she will probably yell for you, but as she gets the idea that she can drift back to sleep herself, she may just squeak and go back (sounds unlikely? I thought that too.) The idea is that as time goes on you can wait a tiny bit longer before you go in, to give her the opportunity to practise her new skill.

Days 4, 5 and 6 - move the chair a few feet away from the cot. Keep everything else the same except you are further away. Once you have had your bedtime cuddle and put her in the cot sit down. You can still go to her if she really needs you, and you can still speak to her but she may not need as much help by now. Again, wait until she is asleep before you leave. Repeat as often as necessary when she wakes although, again, leave it a few minutes before you go in.

Days 7, 8 and 9 - move the chair to the door or the other side of the room. Make sure she can still see you, but once you have settled her in her cot and gone to the chair try not to go to her unless she has got herself into a daft position and can't get out. By now she will start developing her own strategy to get to sleep, and you will be able to tell what stage she is at, because you've been watching it all the way through.

Day 10 - you have several choices. If you think things are going really well and baby can cope with you not being there  you can leave the room and see how she gets on. You can hover by the door out of sight and watch what happens, and  reassure her with your voice. If you feel apprehensive about it and think she needs longer you can try the Bustle -  instead of sitting down, tinker about in her room, cleaning up or folding washing or whatever. Or you can continue in the  chair.  The idea of the plan is ultimately for you to be able to plonk and go, but I quite like spending that extra time with DC so I  use a mixture of the bustle and the chair. For night wakings you now really have to give her the chance to go back on her  own. Wait ten minutes ( I know - such a long time!) before you go in.  I got up last night to Þ nd by the time I got to DC's  door, she'd already curled up again! That's the main brunt of it. Just bear in mind that the first couple of nights are the worst - she might wake more frequently,  but stick at it and you'll see an improvement. The other thing is that when they start sleeping longer in the night they get  up properly a bit too early in the morning - but this usually improves over a few weeks as they get the hang of sleeping.  I've kind of assumed that you are going to move her into her own room - there's no reason you can't start this as soon as  you move her in. If DC get ill and it disrupts her sleep, go back to whichever stage in the plan you think works best. You can sleep in her  room if you want to keep an eye on her, but don't bring her in with you.

Naps - Do the same for naps as you do at night times only you can't sit there for as long as it takes - give it an hour and if  she hasn't gone to sleep, get her up and feed her or do something different and try again a bit later. If she resists  napping like this twice in a day you can resort to taking her out in the buggy or something. just so she gets a bit of sleep  in the day. You are aiming at two solid naps a day by the way. If you've started this thing at bedtime the night before, the  nap thing is usually not a problem.  I can't think of anything else right now! By the way this is based on a Canadian lady's idea. I chose to use it because it  doesn't mean leaving a baby to cry. They learn to fall asleep without you intervening, although you might argue that your  presence is a sort of intervention, but before long you will find yourself saying goodnight and shutting the door, because  she'd not taking any notice of you anymore!" ^


So for us the First night it took 3 hours 10mins, which is why for nightwakings later on that night I just fed her instead of  sitting with her. Within the first few nights she woke LOADS less and then DH would go to her and he would just ask her  to put her head down and she would and go straight back to sleep. Needless to say that sort of thing just wouldn't  happen before. So if I remember rightly it was only after 4 or 5 nights that I stopped feeding her. The other thing we've  found a bit hard is waiting a few mins before going in to her when she wakes. We just give it one or two minutes more  than we'd usually do instead of waiting 10.  

DH would like to add that he thinks the important thing is to teach DC to put their head down and close their eyes - he  says' put your head down, put your head down, now close your eyes' and repeats it a bit like a mantra gently until DD  does, and then stops as soon as she does what he says. He says for our 9month old that after a week she knows what it  means and does what he suggests! He says that this is useful in the night and that's all he needs to do to get her to go back to sleep.

For the first night I recommend a large glass of wine that you take in with you. For the second night, have  the bottle waiting for you on the table in the lounge. Also on the first night we both did it together for a bit of moral  support and took it in turns but I'm assuming that none of you is as much as a wimp as I am.

I hope this isn't too much of a mess, my friend's writing is very clear, and mine is all over the shop. I'm just a bit  enthusiastic about how its gone. I hope this is of use to someone.

[1Catherine1]

Weedoll Has your DS ever stayed in a hotel before?

At Christmas we traveled up to see my family. As DD doesn't travel well and we had very little time off work, we went up late at night, with the plan of staying in a hotel for the night, after getting there at 2am. Great plan I thought. Until my DD, who was 9mo at the time, woke up, and lost all interest in sleeping with the wonder of a hotel room. My OH and I, took it in turns to sleep that night.

I'd probably wait to be consistent, if you can, and start next week. Although if it isn't practical, then why not. Your DS will see that it isn't a typical night. I have to travel back up to my parents next week for a job interview and have to take DD with me. It is going to play havoc with her routine, but it is impossible to avoid, and putting the sleep training off would not have been practical.

Personally, I think taking the dummy away too would be too much at once. Baby steps.

Good luck.

[tootiredtothinkofanickname]

Lots of us in the same boat as far as I can see... weedoll, I would also wait until you're back, one week in the grand scheme of things is not a lot. Also, I personally wouldn't take his dummy away at the same time, I'm thinking it might actually be easier to get him in the habit of self settling if he has his dummy, as it would comfort him?

Well, last night went ok-ish, but not as well as I would have hoped. DS took 30 mins to fall asleep at 7.30, woke up at 1.30, took 20 mins to go back down, then up again at 3.30 but he was thirsty, settled without milk and no crying, then up at 5.10 hungry, so I fed him and then took him into bed with me until 6.15, when he was up for the day. So not too bad, and I'm surprised he didn't need feeding at 3, but it's still interrupted sleep and I'm very tired. I know I should stop co-sleeping but I can't function the following day otherwise, and since I only lie down with him after I feed him, which is after 3 am, I don't mind (I actually love the cuddles). And only doing it after a feed is, I hope, a pattern in itself, so will know how to self settle before then.

Anyway, I will persevere with this until the week-end, but if his sleep doesn't improve I think I'll go back to co sleeping. I am so tired and need some uninterrupted sleep to be able to function the next day, I can't afford to be so shattered at work. I started this on Thursday night, how long does it usually take until you see some improvement? I mean there is improvement, DS is much easier to settle, but I am so tired I can't really see it, if that makes sense. The first 2 nights after we started were actually better than the last 2 nights.

[hardboiledpossum]

weedoll I would also wait till you were home to start. Also would not take dummy away as well, think it would be too much of a change.

tootired Have you been writing his wake ups down each night so you can see if it has changed? I wouldn't really expect to see much change this quickly though. After doing it for 10 days before I saw very little progress, I think you really need to be prepared to stick with it for a few weeks!

DS woke up at 9.05 and 10.35 last night and both times took 15 minutes to settle. When he woke up at 11.30 I gave up and brought him in to bed with us as my partner hadn't seen him all day so wanted a cuddle anyway. Will start again tonight!

[weedoll]

Thanks everyone, I'll leave it til we're back and keep the dummy. Will report back in a week x

[tootiredtothinkofanickname]

Hardboiledpossum, a few weeks?! Really? I feel quite deflated now... but good to know it can take that long, I was under the impression I'll start to see some improvement after a few days.

It was better tonight, DS fell asleep in just under 20 minutes, and again with no crying. But he was shattered, so maybe this was the reason. Let's see what the night brings...

[tootiredtothinkofanickname]

Update... (sorry to hog the thread). DS woke up briefly at 2.15, I didn't need to go in as he must have gone back to sleep in less than a minute, he just stirred for a bit. Then up at 4.30 for a feed and back down until 6.20. I feel like a different person today,I really hope I haven't jinxed it now.

[1Catherine1]

It feels great doesnt it tootired. Similar story here for last night. DD woke 3 times before 11pm but each time self soothed with a minute or 2. Then at 11:30 she got quite upset and I had to go in. I sat near the door though and she went to sleep within 30 minutes. Then she slept till 6:30.

I even slept in my own bed. :) I'm so happy that I found this thread and that this is working for us.

[multicolourcat]

really great to read this thread. I am going to jump onboard if ok, I need to do this, desperately. did anyone else actually feel scared to start the process? I have a nervous tummy at the thought of starting it and keep putting it off!

[ebmummy]

multicoloured, me too! I'll start with you. DS goes for his naps ok during the day, and he sleeps himself when I put him down at night, but just wondering what to do for the 3-4 night-time wakings? He's almost a year old (in 1.5 weeks).

Anyone advise of a plan? x

[multicolourcat]

eb great! DD also just about to turn 1. Is your LO managing to slef settle for naps and bedtime already then? We aren't managing self settling at all, plus lots of wakes in the night and refusals to go back to sleep! when are you going to start...think i'm going to wait until the weekend.

[ebmummy]

multi, he turns 1 on the 1st of march. Yeah he self-settles for naps and bedtime (mostly). It's just the through night wakings that are driving me bananas.. I've read the OP's post, but am unclear as to what to do for these? Can you shed any light?

I think I will start at the weekend too... x

[KittyBump]

Hiya, can I join in? DD is 14 months, has co slept and fed to sleep since birth. I started this evening and initially it went well, she was pretty cross to start with but I persevered and spoke to her, rubbed her tummy and sang until she went to sleep - probably around 25 minutes. I was really pleased with this but after 45 minutes she woke up and I went up to her. She was stood up and crying, I got her out the cot intending to feed her and put her back. When I put her back she went completely bat shit! Really screaming crying making herself hoarse and coughing like mad, I tried to settle her again but it was futile :( I tried for about 10 minutes - not long I know but you honestly would have thought I was trying to kill her the noise she was making.
She is currently fast asleep in my bed :( and
I suppose I shouldn't have got her out when I went in, I have lost all confidence. DH says he will try again tomorrow (he is away tonight) I'm ready to give up already!

[multicolourcat]

hi kitty i think your story is why I am putting it off, I can imagine DD responsing pretty much the same. DD 11 1/2MO does usually sleep in her cot, but this week has been crying so much in the night and I am so exhausted, I haven't had the strength and I have ended up cosleeping for the last 3 nights. I'm planning on starting this gradual retreat thing at the weekend as DP has next week off work, but I am dreading it, especially as she has now got used to sleeping in my arms, it is going to be a shock to her.
eb you seem to already be half way there if you can pout you LO down awake and he'll nod off to slee]p - i think that is what most of us here are trying to achieve, and apparently that will help the night wakings, which is where yours goes wrong! What are you doing in the night time? Are you feeding still? Maybe this could be why he is waking? I think the idea is that you do the same at the nightwakings - don't get LO out of the cot and let them settle themselves back to sleep without us intervening.

Hopefully someone will come along and tell us a bit more. I am just dreading the crying. I know there is going to be a lot, and I find it really hard to judge what is too much, as i really hate any crying at all.

[differentnameforthis]

It is called gradual withdrawal & worked well for dd1 & also dd2. We only needed it for dd2 when she went into a bed (which was far too soon in my opinion, but she learnt to climb out of her cot.

I found it to be a gentle calming way to sooth them. With dd2 it coincided with dd1 getting a DS for her birthday, so I used to sit in the room -playing- trying it to make sure it worked :)

[differentnameforthis]

A lot of the yelling/screaming etc can possibly be attributed to the fact that you are changing their routine, so they might be a tad pissed off with you :)

Don't forget why you are doing this.

You know the difference between the distressed/pissed off crying, so do what you have to help it yourself. There are no hard & fast rules, so tailor it to suit your needs.

[tootiredtothinkofanickname]

Well we had the most amazing night ever, DS went down at 7.20 and woke up again at 5!!! He was starving so I fed him, then I lied down with him and after tossing and turning for 20 minutes or so, he went back down until 6.30. I really hope it's not just a one -off, I know there will be colds and teething and lots of developmental stuff but I hope most nights will be like this.

Kitty, don't worry about co-sleeping, I think if you persevere putting your DD in her cot to sleep things will get better and she will eventually sleep longer stretches. if it's not always possible, start again the following day. I know about confusing messages, but I think they really are adaptable at this age and as long as you get her used to falling asleep alone her sleep will get better.

Eb, how many night wakings do you have to cope with? Is your DS hungry when he wakes up? How long does it take him to settle back to sleep? You know better if he wakes up out of habit or not. I am happy to continue feeding DS for a while as he is really hungry when he wakes and he cut down on the night feedings himself (pushes bottle away if not hungry). I've read somewhere that half of the 1 year olds still wake up in the night, so we're by no means alone...

Differentname, what age did your DD go into a bed? DS is not climbing yet but I have an inkling he might start in a few months' time.

[ebmummy]

Well he wakes up a few times a night, and yes to feed. I'm not trying not to bf though-just give him a bottle and he has a good drink and then turns over (I never take him out of his cot-just lay him on his side and stick put the bottle in his mouth). Last night he woke up at 3am, and didn't fall back asleep till 4.30-5am. I just played his lullaby thing on his monitor on a loop (it has a remote control jobbie). Tbh, I know he may not need the calories but he's off his food lately cos he's teething (I suspect) so I feel I have to offer him a bottle at night. Oh, and dh has decided he definitely doesn't want to help with the bedtime routine cos he finds it too 'distressing' listening to ds 'cry his little heart out'. Which he doesn't, it's obviously an excuse.. So am by myself really...

[tootiredtothinkofanickname]

Sorry ebmummy, I've re-read your OP, you did say 3-4 night wakings, for some reason I had read the 3-4am night waking... still tired I guess.

Anyway, it must be so hard not having help from your DP. Are you working or staying at home? (Not that staying a home with a baby is not work!) Can you sleep at all during the day? Can you at least have a lie-in every now and then? I feel for you, it's shattering, the only way I can deal with multiple night wakings is by co-sleeping.

Not much help, sorry.

[differentnameforthis]

dd2 went into a bed at 16mths. She became expert at climbing out of her cot & I was worried she would catch her legs in between the slats & fall.

Dd1 was 3. That was mainly due to the fact that we emigrated just before & didn't want to invest in a bed & haul that across the world with us. She decided to get in the bed & she never looked back.

[nectarina]

Hello everyone, I'll give my tuppence worth -

ebmummy what do you normally do in the night time? If you normally feed to sleep, I would feed like normal (not in your bed, but in a chair in their room), then put baby in cot (wake gently if already asleep), and then treat it like going to bed - don't say anything if baby is quiet but if baby cries, comfort without picking up, using your voice and stroking.
Then after a few days like this, try to comfort baby for a few minutes without feeding, if this works great, if not, just feed and don't give it another moments thought. Each time you go in evaluate what state the baby's in - sometimes they're pretty easy to settle, other times less so.
Also give it longer and longer each time you go in. If you normally jump up, just give it one minute, the next night two etc until 10mins.

What happened with us was I didn't withdraw feeds if dd needed them, but she always went back down awake. Dh would go in first to see if he could get her back to sleep but i would wait and listen to see whether I should go in or not to feed. dd just woke less and less until she slept through the night - I was so glad i wasn't going to have to listen to her crying in the middle of the night for ages.

[nectarina]

ebmummy sorry I didn't read all your posts. I think you really don't need to give your baby a bottle at night, even whilst teething. It means that ds in digesting milk instead of properly sleeping. When you stop feeding at night, he will make up for it in the day.

[ebmummy]

Nectarina, thanks so much for replying. I will try at the weekend to see if I can settle him without milk. I realise it's going to be tough, but will see how it pans out. Hopefully will be successful, but if not then at least I'd have given it a go! Think I will get DP to sleep in the spare room cos he is more a hinderance than a help-if I leave ds to whinge for longer than a few minutes, he keeps poking me to go into him cos it's cruel. Honestly, I feel like a single mum sometimes...

[nectarina]

kitty errr... that sounds really good to me - 25mins? did you miss the bit in my post where i wrote about it taking me more than 3hrs!? its normal that she was angry, and its also normal that you did what you could to comfort her. Do not feel bad in the slightest. I should think the next night would get easier.

multicolouredcat I understand you feeling nervous. Don't feel like its a ride that once you get on you can't get off. Its a bit like a diet where if you sneak a chocolate, you just have to move on and start again.
I have to say that I was putting it off for a month, until the point where i was not just tired but totally pissed off, that i had enough grim determination to do it. I was so angry! It just felt like i'd always been doing whatever i could to avoid dd crying, and it wasn't even working.

[1Catherine1]

For those putting it off, can I suggest a deadline? My DD sleeping got really messed up in December. I remember discussing it with DP, and saying that, if it wasn't fixed by Feb half term, I would do something about it then. When I found this thread I showed it to him, so he was clear on the plan. Then when February half term arrived I was determined not to give in.

Night 6 didn't start as well as others but I learnt a valuable lesson - don't be afraid to start again. I fed her, put her down in the cot, she stood up, cried briefly then lay down on her front and started to nod off... then next door's dog started barking in their garden which brought her out of the "zone". She started screaming her little head off. I gave in after 15 minutes when she was literally pulling her hair out. I took her out of the cot, fed her again and then put her back in the cot and she went down to sleep in 2 minutes.

[MadameJ]

Night 9 here and still using this method and the night wakings have not yet decreased but she is definately settling quicker than before.

We do seem to have hit a wall in regards to how far away she will let me sit, she is absolutely fine if I sit in my "normal spot" but if I try to move any further away she screams blue murder, I am thinking that I will just keep sitting where she is happy and try moving away again in a few nights time and see how that goes.