What worked for us. Hope this helps.

[nectarina]

This post is going to be massive - no apologies however.

So I've posted at least 5 queries about DD's sleep and read about 1 billion threads, because DD only napped for 30mins  in the day, would only BF to sleep (since a newborn I wanted to get out of the habit, but nothing else did it). She spent  the first 5 months in her cot, only for us to end up co-sleeping so we could get a bit of rest. She would BF every 2 hours at  least in the night, and by the end she'd wake every half hour before we went to bed. I knew I couldn't do CC/CIO, I'm not  strong enough even if I thought that was the right thing to do, but I thought that I would be forced to if things carried on  the way they were.

We read No Cry Sleep Solution, which is complicated and didn't work for us.

So a friend had tried a technique, that she recommended and I thought that it was too much of a leap for DD, but i kept  the email, and one evening I sort of snapped and decided that IT WAS TIME. DD was  8 1/2months. I don't know from  what age this technique is recommended, but I don't think I'd have wanted to do this earlier, as you still have to cope with  the baby crying. I knew DD was ready because now she quite clearly has two cries - one properly sad and scared, the  other a bit shouty and put on, so when doing this technique you know what's going on (but I'd like to add that I still  comforted DD when she was shouty - she's still trying to say something, but I deÞ nitely wouldn't pick her up and panic!)

 I'll paste her email to me, hoping she won't mind. We didn't do it in the ten days, as it was just a bit too much, but i wonder if the way we did it made things a bit complicated. So I recommend doing it as laid out.  

But now DD takes 20mins to fall asleep by herself (with one of us in her room) in her cot, in her room. and I do not feed at  all between 7pm and 7am. Dh goes in in the night and he gives her water in case she's thirsty but she's quite happy  without. It takes him no more than about 3mins to resettle her (unless ill).

After starting this at the beginning of January  she still wakes up once or twice a night but it doesn't affect me as I wear earplugs and DH goes in! ha ha ha! (I still hear  her and wake up, but I don't wake up fully and find it difFicult to go back to sleep) Do I need to tell you how I feel like a  different woman?

So here's the email -  

^"Ok, this is a plan thing that we first tried with dc1 when we got to the point where we knew something had to change. There seems to come a point where not only do you get tired of 'helping' your baby get to sleep, but whatever you do seems to work less and less - as if they know something has to change too! It takes a bit of work for about ten days or so but mostly the first couple of days you really put your back into it and then it gets easier. I remember vaguely doing it with dc1 and have just rediscovered it with Dc2 she is a bit of a firecracker so I was expecting trouble but babies love to learn something new, especially around this age and she only woke once last night despite having a cold, which is a HUGE improvement. Dc1 found this very easy and never shed a tear. Dc2 screamed 'TRAITOR!!' at me many times during the first night (she does that a lot), so I'm not saying that there won't be some crying because you will be doing something different to before but you don't have to leave her side and can reassure her as much as you need to, physically and verbally. 
The idea is that you are no longer going to help her go to sleep - in whatever way - if you rock her, feed her, jiggle her, whatever it is. You can be there and reassure her but it is no longer your job to MAKE her go to sleep. It is your job to support her whilst she does it herself. 
First of all, you know that thing that everyone says about having a bedtime routine (which I imagine you already have) is utterly true. By the time they are a toddler, the sound of a running bath is enough to set the bedtime clock going. When you choose to do this thing, it is really important to stick to your bedtime routine without fail for the ten days and it needs to be between 20 and 45 minutes long. Also, this plan also applies to naps, so you need to be able to be at home for naptimes - just until Dd has the thing established - ten days usually does it. Lastly, you are aiming for Dd to be in bed by 7ish in the evening and not much later. If you're like me you're knackered by about half four, so starting bedtime at a quarter past six is no trouble. You've probably done all that so on to the plan. I'll do bedtimes first and then naps. 

Day 1, 2 and 3 - Place a chair right next to the cot. Make it a comfortable chair, you may get to know it fairly well. Have a duvet, cushions, iphone, book to hand. Do your bedtime routine and put Dd in the cot awake. She may well not know what to do next and try all sorts of things. If she stands up you can gently pop her back down again but only a few times - if she insists on standing for a bit then let her - it may just be one of those things she incorporates into her own burgeoning routine, and I daresay she is capable of getting back down again by now. You can pat the bed to let her know you want her to lie down. Sooner or later she is likely to sit down for a bit and eventually plop on to her front. She has to find her own way through this so she may try eating her blanket or playing with a toy before she lies down - that's up to her. If she cries, you can pat her and speak to her. As long as you remember that your patting and comforting is not there to get her to sleep, just to help her calm down in this new and confusing situation so as soon as she starts to settle, lighten your touch with a view to taking your hand off her, and stop speaking. She may go back and forth a bit needing you to touch and speak to her a few more times, but each time lessen your touch when she has settled. Stay there until she has fallen fast asleep and creep out. This bit can take ten minutes for some babies, but most fall asleep after 45 minutes. Two hours is the longest on record! I expected Dc2 to be a two hour effort but no - 45 minutes almost exactly. As long as you know that it is going to take that long, you can get through it. When she wakes up in the night, you do exactly the same thing, each and every time. The first few times she wakes, she will probably yell for you, but as she gets the idea that she can drift back to sleep herself, she may just squeak and go back (sounds unlikely? I thought that too.) The idea is that as time goes on you can wait a tiny bit longer before you go in, to give her the opportunity to practise her new skill.

Days 4, 5 and 6 - move the chair a few feet away from the cot. Keep everything else the same except you are further away. Once you have had your bedtime cuddle and put her in the cot sit down. You can still go to her if she really needs you, and you can still speak to her but she may not need as much help by now. Again, wait until she is asleep before you leave. Repeat as often as necessary when she wakes although, again, leave it a few minutes before you go in.

Days 7, 8 and 9 - move the chair to the door or the other side of the room. Make sure she can still see you, but once you have settled her in her cot and gone to the chair try not to go to her unless she has got herself into a daft position and can't get out. By now she will start developing her own strategy to get to sleep, and you will be able to tell what stage she is at, because you've been watching it all the way through.

Day 10 - you have several choices. If you think things are going really well and baby can cope with you not being there  you can leave the room and see how she gets on. You can hover by the door out of sight and watch what happens, and  reassure her with your voice. If you feel apprehensive about it and think she needs longer you can try the Bustle -  instead of sitting down, tinker about in her room, cleaning up or folding washing or whatever. Or you can continue in the  chair.  The idea of the plan is ultimately for you to be able to plonk and go, but I quite like spending that extra time with DC so I  use a mixture of the bustle and the chair. For night wakings you now really have to give her the chance to go back on her  own. Wait ten minutes ( I know - such a long time!) before you go in.  I got up last night to Þ nd by the time I got to DC's  door, she'd already curled up again! That's the main brunt of it. Just bear in mind that the first couple of nights are the worst - she might wake more frequently,  but stick at it and you'll see an improvement. The other thing is that when they start sleeping longer in the night they get  up properly a bit too early in the morning - but this usually improves over a few weeks as they get the hang of sleeping.  I've kind of assumed that you are going to move her into her own room - there's no reason you can't start this as soon as  you move her in. If DC get ill and it disrupts her sleep, go back to whichever stage in the plan you think works best. You can sleep in her  room if you want to keep an eye on her, but don't bring her in with you.

Naps - Do the same for naps as you do at night times only you can't sit there for as long as it takes - give it an hour and if  she hasn't gone to sleep, get her up and feed her or do something different and try again a bit later. If she resists  napping like this twice in a day you can resort to taking her out in the buggy or something. just so she gets a bit of sleep  in the day. You are aiming at two solid naps a day by the way. If you've started this thing at bedtime the night before, the  nap thing is usually not a problem.  I can't think of anything else right now! By the way this is based on a Canadian lady's idea. I chose to use it because it  doesn't mean leaving a baby to cry. They learn to fall asleep without you intervening, although you might argue that your  presence is a sort of intervention, but before long you will find yourself saying goodnight and shutting the door, because  she'd not taking any notice of you anymore!" ^


So for us the First night it took 3 hours 10mins, which is why for nightwakings later on that night I just fed her instead of  sitting with her. Within the first few nights she woke LOADS less and then DH would go to her and he would just ask her  to put her head down and she would and go straight back to sleep. Needless to say that sort of thing just wouldn't  happen before. So if I remember rightly it was only after 4 or 5 nights that I stopped feeding her. The other thing we've  found a bit hard is waiting a few mins before going in to her when she wakes. We just give it one or two minutes more  than we'd usually do instead of waiting 10.  

DH would like to add that he thinks the important thing is to teach DC to put their head down and close their eyes - he  says' put your head down, put your head down, now close your eyes' and repeats it a bit like a mantra gently until DD  does, and then stops as soon as she does what he says. He says for our 9month old that after a week she knows what it  means and does what he suggests! He says that this is useful in the night and that's all he needs to do to get her to go back to sleep.

For the first night I recommend a large glass of wine that you take in with you. For the second night, have  the bottle waiting for you on the table in the lounge. Also on the first night we both did it together for a bit of moral  support and took it in turns but I'm assuming that none of you is as much as a wimp as I am.

I hope this isn't too much of a mess, my friend's writing is very clear, and mine is all over the shop. I'm just a bit  enthusiastic about how its gone. I hope this is of use to someone.

[nectarina]

1Catherine1 - it'll get easier that's for sure. You have to feel like you're going forwards, even if its slow or difficult.
Feeding her is a good thing if thats what she's used to - just try to do it in a chair if you can so you don't fall asleep.

Its hard I imagine at the moment because its cold! The last thing you want to be doing is fannying around in the cold. It helped me to go to bed with pyjamas and socks on (normally sleep in chanel no5) so that getting out of bed and staying out for the length of feed/settle wasn't so tough. It also reminded me when I woke up to do something differently i.e. not just pick her up and drag her into bed and go straight back to sleep!

lady - it sounds like things are going really well - I think maybe your story will give hope to those who are worried that the longer the baby get used to 'bad' habits, the worse things will be when the time comes to make a change. It seems like the older the kid the more they can understand what is going on, and the less crying will happen. So no-one should be in a rush to make put this plan into action; if bf to sleep is working for you, don't listen to others, carry on as you are and wait until you're no longer happy with it (or it no longer works!).

[1Catherine1]

Night 2 - She fell asleep after only 10 minutes when I put her down at 7 and just a moment ago. Not sure if this is because she is getting the hang of it or because she only had one nap today so was pretty exhausted to start with. Still only sleeping an hour at a time but - baby steps! Will see if this continues all night.

[MadameJ]

Night 5 here and I moved slightly further away but DD could still very clearly see me although I try not to look at her because this seems to remind her to shout .

Again took about 20 minutes which is fab but it would have taken about 5 if she wasnt such a wiggle bum and kept banging her head on the side of the cot - I nearly failed completely when she banged her head and said "bad bed" and I nearly burst out laughing (I didnt even know she could say bed, bless her).

I am still feeding her if she wakes in the night because I dont really mind this too much and she usually resettles quite quickly, also our walls are super thin and she would definately wake the neighbours (and their babies) if she starts screaming. It is just great to know that I have another way to get her to bed as feeding was rarely working anymore.

[JeewizzJen]

Hi everyone, I think I'm going to be joining these ranks, been guided to thus thread from another in the bf'ing forum

DS is 7.5 months and a rubbish sleeper
He's never fallen asleep without boob or rocking. We've been cosleeping but even that isn't going that well now. Two nights ago we tried DS in his cot in his own room and it's largely been a disaster! I'm going to give this method a try ... wish me luck!!

I'll report back, it's great to have the support here

[ladybirdsinmyeyes]

Absolutely nectarina, I think babies and young children are pre-programmed to be adaptable, so do this when you are ready to move them on to the next stage, not out of worry about habit-forming. The closeness is so lovely while it is working! I just didn't know how to implement the push to more independent sleeping or how to guide them through, and now I do, so thank you so much! Still sleeping happily at night, with a few wake-ups, but back to sleep with a feed, a whisper and a rub. I will definitely be using this technique properly (must get a better chair and lots of pillows...) when I drop bfing. But the wonderful thing is that that doesn't worry me now, I could do it tomorrow (if I go chair shopping) or in 6 months, I know how.

Good luck JeewizzJen - GET COMFORTABLE!!!!

[1Catherine1]

Update on night 2: DD went down at 7 after only 10 minutes crying, then again at 8 and then at 11pm. She then woke at 2am and I think since I gave in at that point the night before she was expecting me to do so again but I didn't. She cried for an hour (after being taken out for a feed just in case she was hungry) and I thought of MadameJ's post as I live in a 2-up-2-down mid-terrace - hopefully my neighbours didn't wake up. From there it all went fairly well though. She fell back asleep at just after 3am and slept til 6:30am and seemed fairly happy and refreshed. I brought her downstairs to play with her father and took myself back to bed for another 2 hours sleep :)

Am so thankful that this seems to be working for us and I don't feel as guilty as I don't abandon her while she is upset.

Good luck with it JeewizzJen - let us know how it goes...

[ATruthUniversallyAcknowledged]

I hope it's helpful jen. Good luck

[nectarina]

Welcome Jeewizzjen, pull up the comfiest chair in the house, glass of wine and good luck!

[KentishMaid1977]

We don't co-sleep, but DD (12 months) is still in a cot in our bedroom, but would like to move her into her own room soon.

I don't know whether it would be best to try this technique in the familiarity of our bedroom so she feels secure, but then that might mean starting over again when we move her or whether just to go completely cold-turkey, move her out and do it then.

Any thoughts?

[OPeaches]

I have to share how brilliantly this has gone for us. DD is almost 11 months old and is breastfed. She gets up every 60 to 90 minutes usually and demands to be fed. She has co-slept her whole life so last night was her first night in her own cor in her own bedroom.
Night 1:
8pm in bed, asleep after 25 mins
Woke 1:05, asleep after 5 mins!
Woke 1:45, asleep after 2 mins!!
Woke 2:10, asleep after 2 min
Woke 2:25, juice, asleep after 20
Woke 5:20, asleep in 5 mins
Woke 5:50, juice, asleep in 5 mins
6:55 up for the day. 

Night 2
7:40 in bed, asleep in under 10 mins

(I have exact timings as I was noting them on my iPhone as we went)
 
. . . And so far is still sleeping. We expected a real battle with screaming and vomiting so have been so delighted with night one. DD did get up a lot after her initial 5 hours but in the middle of the night it took me a while to work out she was thirsty!

THIS IS AMAZING, I might actually get my life back!!!!! Nectarina, I love you, actually really love you. The funny thing is, when DS was about the same age I did something quite similar, but for some reason was totally stumped about what to do for DD. Exhaustion has clearly fried my brain.

[OPeaches]

Should also add, DD has always always been fed to sleep, wouldn't go to sleep any other way for me, but would sleep for her daddy after about an hour of crying.

[nectarina]

Oh Opeaches I am very happy for you! You are probably the happiest though!
It sounds like even night 1 was easier than normal.

I think for those people wanting to wait until they have more time on their hands - it could be that its actually easier doing this plan than what you're normally doing.

Kentishmaid I don't know really. DD was co-sleeping when we did it and we moved her to a cot in her own room all in one go. It might have made things harder for us, but like you say maybe it meant that we didn't have to do it twice.
What I would suggest is playing with DD in her room in the day (if you don't already) before you try it so that she gets familiar. And do stories, pyjamas etc in there as well, not in your bedroom.
We spent a bit of time making sure her room was nice and cosy - for us as well as for her, so we put a nice big armchair with a table next to it for books, iphone, drink etc.

[ATruthUniversallyAcknowledged]

Kentish - DS is in a cot in our room at the moment (three sided, so he's almost in bed with us iyswim) and we've started it in there. We're going on holiday tomorrow so we're just going to see what happens there, but then move him into his own room when we get back. Our plan is for us to move in there with him for the first few nights so he feels safe and then to move out. I'll let you know how it goes, but obviously won't know for a few weeks.

[JeewizzJen]

I feel an utter failure. Last night was absolutely horrible.

I had really bolstered myself up to give this a good try, fed him upstairs, got him in his sleeping bag and put him in his cot. He was crying within 2 minutes. Within about 10 minutes he was screaming. I tried to talk/shh/pat but it just escalated until he was totally hysterical. That kind of hysterical where they can't breathe properly and are coughing on the verge of throwing up. I picked him up, and calmed him down. I did this god knows how many times, trying to put him back down again each time he was calm but within seconds the hysterical screaming started again. I managed an hour and a half of that, and I was really trying to stick it out, but by the end of that time I was also almost hysterical. I called DP up and he tried for 10 minutes while I was crying in our room, but in the end I couldn't listen to DS like that any more and went to take him. I was just as inconsolable as him! (poor DP!) He fell asleep in my arms, and I tried to put him down again, but within two mins he was panicked and screaming again.

In the end I took him back to our bed for the night (where he slept til 1, then 3, then 4, then up for the day at 5 - but each waking required rocking after a feed to get back to sleep). At least I got some sleep I guess.

I'm so useless. But I really can't do this. He just gets so utterly hysterical, there's no way he'd settle like that. No amount of patting, shhing, jiggling whatever seems to have any effect at all. I just don't know what to do. I don't see how to make things better for us, I'm at a total loss. Perhaps I'm being weak, but letting him scream like that goes against every fibre in my body. Yet, I need to do something. I feel like I'm completely trapped.

[ATruthUniversallyAcknowledged]

PMing you x

[OPeaches]

JeewizJen how old is your DS? There's no way I could have listened to that and cracked either. Maybe he's not ready? My dd is doing really well, but she is almost 11 months old. Last time we tried putting her in her own room we had a horrendous time and gave up. YOU are not weak, you are a mother, so obviously can't bear to hear your baby scream. In my opinion you did exactly the right thing x

[tootiredtothinkofanickname]

Can I join too? I've been lurking for a few days and started this gradual withdrawal 4 night ago. The thing is, I knew about this method in theory, but having it spelt out like that really helps. It all seems to be going very well, although we did have a bleep last night.

DS is 1 in a week and I think he was ready for this, as we had NO CRYING. He would usually fall asleep in my arms and then sleep for a decent 4-5 hours' spell before starting to wake up every couple of hours. This doesn't sound so bad, we were co-sleeping after that long-ish stretch, but it was not working anymore, it seemed to make him even more unsettled, and I was waking up very stiff. Even if he's not a horrendous sleeper, I haven't had a full night's sleep in ages and I'm also back at work. I'm a softie and can't bear to hear him cry, so I started thinking I'll give it a go but if he becomes distressed I will give up. Well, he fell asleep after 40 minutes the first night and 30 the following three, with my arm in his cot (between the cot bars) and me singing. He then woke up at around 10.30 each night but went back down within 2-3 minutes the first 3 nights, but within half an hour last night (not sure why, he didn't cry, was just unsettled). Then he wakes up between 3-4 for a feed and then at 6ish for the day. We still co-sleep after the night feed, I actually enjoy it and if left in his cot we would wake at 5am!

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Also I just wanted to say to JewizzJen, you're not a failure, your baby's sleep has nothing to do with your parenting. I also thought, reading your post, that your DS maybe isn't ready yet, maybe you could try and settle him in the same bed with you for a week or so, so it's easier to cuddle him if he gets distressed, and then gradually move to settling him in his own cot? Just an idea, not sure it would work.

Thanks nectarina :) I hope to report back with good news tomorrow.

[JeewizzJen]

Hi all, thanks for your replies. DS is 7.5 months.

tootired I actually quite like your idea, and may well revisit it, but DP (and me, to a point) is really keen to get DS into his own room. However, I don't know how many nights I can take of 30 minute wake ups, so I may well be telling DP it'll have to wait a while longer!

It's so difficult - I think this approach is really good, and if DS was just crying, not screaming, I know I could do it. So now I'm left trying to come up with a strategy for tonight - I definitely won't be letting him scream again. I was managing to get him down, asleep, but he wakes every 30-60 mins and requires rocking to get back to sleep. (and occasional feeds ). I can live without self settling for now; I can live with a few nightwakings too, but I just want him to sleep in his room!!

[1Catherine1]

JeewizJen - it sounds like hell. You are not a failure, it really sounds like your DS is not ready imo. If my DD had done the same thing I would have done exactly the same as you and cuddled her to sleep. I was just saying to my OH last night that perhaps our DD is now ready and that is why it seems to be working - I tried something similar a few months ago but it was disastrous. Try again when you think he (and you) are ready!

Night 3 was quite different. She fell asleep the first time within a minute which was amazing. Then she woke 2 hours later and OH settled her within 10 minutes. Then she woke up at midnight and seemed to want a feed - I gave in and after her feed she struggled to get comfortable and took half an hour to get back to sleep. Our house is quite cold and I think she was cold as she hates covers so had to softly put one over her as she was dropping off.

The big problem came at 4:30am when she woke up. She showed no signs of being tired and although I waited to see if she would go back to sleep she just got angry and shouted at me. I fed her and tried to put her back in the cot and she shouted at me again. Eventually my DP came in and and said he would take her downstairs to play so I could get some more sleep. It is now nearly 11am and she has been awake since 4:30am, She is in the overtired stage and is not going back to sleep. When she gets up at 6:30am she usually naps at 9:30am - she must be exhausted!!

[nectarina]

Jeewizz - of course you're not a failure! You did what any of us would have done in the face of his screaming. I also think your DS isn't ready.

There are however some things that you could do that might help things;
know that this will be sorted in a month or two.
try to see this plan as a goal - if you can get DS used to being in his bed, playing or just lying there. Read to him in bed (not just before bed but for fun).

Could you rock until almost asleep, put down in cot and pat or jiggle all the way to sleep?

do whatever you can to stop feeding to sleep - put DS in cot after feed but do it in a way that he wakes slightly, a bit more, a bit more each time you do it.

you won't get any quick results i'm afraid, but you'll be going in the right direction.

Try this plan again in a month, it will work much better.

[nectarina]

1catherine1 - we had quite a few setbacks along the way so this is normal. Just be consistent and DD will get the hang of it. Going to sleep in one minute is amazing though!

tootired welcome to the comfy chair gang. Sounds like its going very well. In our very small pool of data, it seems to be that its easiest and with less crying the older the baby. I would recommend against cosleeping in any part of the night now you are trying to change things - I think its giving mixed messages. By all means carry on (I miss it greatly now DD is sleeping like a dream in her own room (I wouldn't go back though!)) but you'll see less improvement than if you're consistent. Also the 5am waking will only be temporary, I think. ONce he can self-settle he will be able to go back to sleep. When he wakes at 5 leave it longer and longer each time you go in until its eventually 10mins and he'll get the hang of it.

[bagelmonkey]

nectarina I just wanted to come back and say thank you. I haven't read the second half of this thread yet, but I intend to come back and read it later.

We've started using this technique for settling DD. it's early days and we're taking it slowly, but so far it seems to be going well (fingers crossed). We're concentrating on initial settling for the night & nap times first before tackling the middle of the night - I want her to be able to settle reasonably well before I withhold boob during the night & we're visiting the ILs, so I thought it would be easier to BF in the night than stress about the noise in their house.

The first 2 days were hard. Naps were the worst. My mum helped & actually settled DD twice during those two days. Nobody else had settled her for months. But since then there has been very little crying from either of us & DD is settling pretty well. DH can even put her down for a nap or to bed at night now. I feel so much more relaxed using this technique too. I can sit in the room, discretely checking the interweb on my phone & wait for as long it takes.

Anyway,

[hardboiledpossum]

Ok, DS has just turned 1 so we have begun today! It's actually been easy so far as he does go to sleep in his cot occasionally. No crying at all and it took 20 mins to settle with me stroking him next to the cot. I'm dreading the wake ups though. When I've put DS in his cot before for the whole night he normally has woken up every 45-90 minutes. I'll update in the morning!

[weedoll]

Think we are going to start this tomorrow night. Last night of co-sleeping tonight (sobbing) Ds2 can't sleep for more than 30mins day or night without me. Think we're mad to start it even though we are away from home on Sunday night at a hotel? Would this be too inconsistent?

[weedoll]

Btw moving Ds into his own room too, would taking his dummy away be too much for him to bare or would it be an opportunity to change the whole cycle?