AIBU to think MN shouldn't be advertising such dangerous shite?

[toastytoastbear]

home dopplers are bad enough - they can provide false reassurance to women who aren't trained to identify an accurate FHR, never mind the panic they can cause when a HR can't be found.

but FHR APPS ?! I'm fucking horrified that mn would allow a FHR app to be advertised on their pages. I've literally managed to get a healthy FHR reading from my FOOT.

They are SO dangerous. I'm sure I'll get replies saying 'oh it's just a bit of fun, no one would think its medically accurate'. Some women WILL think it's accurate, and not seek further reassurance from their midwife or hospital triage number.

[dcourtney]

I was induced for reduced movements - my sons movements reduced more and more over the 5 days I was in hospital- however having the heart rate monitor seemed to excite him (lol!) so it was always very quick when I was on it.

Then we had meconium in the waters and an episode of his heart rate dropping right down, and alarms blaring etc. He was fine in the end but just not happy.

If I had listened to his heartbeat at home I might have reassured myself, especially cos I only had my gut feeling to go by, but in the end I was right, he wasn't happy and needed to come out.

YANBU

[SunsetOnTheHorizon]

Varied opinons on here tonight.

I feel that there are alsorts of weird and wonderful stuff available online (apps that detect FHR in the feet!!!!) And dopplers seem to be one of them.

But all pregnant women should be armed with the basic advice that any change in movements need to be reported asap. And these home dopplers shouldnt be relied upon. As a expectant mum, you should fall bk on that basic info. As for websites selling/advertising these dopplers... cant really stop them.

Yes, we can have concern about certain things.. (esp the medical professionals in here) but as a fellow pregnant women, I think women should have at least the basic knowledge - change in movements = triage!! We need to have the common sense to follow that simple rule as responsible expectant mums.

[TealSeal]

Hand held dopplers - used by health care professionals to auscultate fetal heart rate in the absence of any concerns to baby's health

Any concerns with movements etc. would need more than a one minute Doppler auscultation for reassurance.

But the point here really is that the app that is being advertised isn't even accurate. How on earth is a phone supposed to pick up a fetal heart accurately? Nonsense. Dangerous nonsense!

[kali110]

Mns doesn't choose the ads, it's based on things that are relevant to you (apprently) so yabu in that.
I think yabu on the home dopplers.
I don't think they should be banned. They come with warnings not to replace your midwife/doctor etc
They should not be used to replace checkups or if you think there is a problem but as others have said it can be nice to have one to hear the heartbeat, and for others to hear it too.
People who may not have been able to make an appointment and would not be able to make futher ones.
Agree about the apps though as i cannot see how these make any sense at all.
I've never even heard of these?
How do they work?

[pontificationcentral]

Interesting stuff. My brain damaged baby had fhr of 28bpm on the intermittent trace before they finally managed to get her out - but the student mw wielding the handheld Doppler had been saying '125' for three hours previously. (The trace was only picking up hr every 45 minutes or so, so they moved to handheld). We still don't know what she was listening to, or whether she was essentially making it up because she was struggling to pick up fhr (she was struggling to find fhr, but the supervising mw did not intervene as every time she was asked if she needed a hand, she said '125'). Subsequent neuro reports suggest that it is not possible the 125 readings were entirely accurate - so she was either picking up my HR or spouting what she had been taught was a likely fhr figure.
I definitely would only rely on these in the hands of trained and experienced medical personnel (and am aghast at the apps - dangerous stuff). The idea of parents going through what we went through (or worse) makes my blood run cold.

[Bubbinsmakesthree]

pontification I'm so sorry, that is awful.

I am always cautioning people against home Dopplers after a friend nearly lost baby to one - she was worried about movement, picked up a good heart rate on the Doppler and nearly left it at that. Eventually decided not to trust it and went in for monitoring - baby was whisked out at 35 weeks by EMCS within the hour.

So ultimately she didn't rely on the Doppler but she (a sensible, intelligent educated woman FWIW) very nearly did.

I don't know if banning them is the answer but ensuring people properly understand never to use them for reassurance is essential.

[treaclesoda]

If, in untrained hands, they can pick up your own heartbeat instead of the foetal heartbeat, and the equipment comes with loads of warnings about their unreliability, then how can they serve any purpose at all? They can't provide reassurance, and as a 'bit of fun' they're pointless. I'm with the OP, I think it's shameful that companies exploit the fears of expectant parents to sell a product that is really only safe in the hands of medical professionals.

[Balanced12]

Pontification what an awful experience

YANBU, yes they come with warnings but if your worried about being ott your going to add it to reasons why you shouldn't bother the midwives.

When the stakes are so high things like this should be banned.

As for a phone app sounds like one of those text yours and your partners name to see if you soul mates bollocks !

[toastytoastbear]

pontification that's fucking horrifying. did the student insist she had heard 125 even after these investigations etc? Was she allowed to carry on with her training?!

[YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet]

Hi OP, thanks for alerting us. We will take a closer look at this issue and update soon but in the mean time, will move the thread over to site stuff as it's easier for us to keep track of site issues there.

[sleepy16]

I had a home dopler with my 2 youngest, I loved hearing baby's heartbeats, I never used it to gain access to the baby's health and if I was at all worried about baby's movements (which my youngest was induced early because of reduced movements) I phoned the dau.
Them in themselves are not dangerous, it's the person using it.
But then I still had midwifes telling me "baby is not moving as much because they don't have no room now"

[YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet]

Hi folks
We are blocking this ad, which was automatically generated by Google. We block a lot of advertising content on the site but things do sometimes slip through, so please continue to report if you see an ad you think needs checking out. As discussed up thread, just using at-home foetal monitors goes against NHS advice, and anyone concerned about their baby's health should seek medical attention.

[Bubbinsmakesthree]

Well done Mumsnet!

[AgathaMystery]

You're ace.

[pontificationcentral]

Toasty - still under medical negligence investigation. The mw supervisor came to do one physical check when I was ready to push and immediately crashed the paeds as she realised straight away something was v wrong. Student got yelled at to get out of the way and we ended up with a room full of people within the minute and the student sobbing in the back of the room. I do feel sorry for the poor student (it was supposed to be her first live birth) but these things are dangerous if you don't have enough experience to know what you are hearing. There is no doubt that the monitoring was inaccurate, but ironically, the med neg claim is likely to not go anywhere because the lack of adequate monitoring means there is not enough evidence to prove exact timing of the difficulty, and that it could have been prevented by medical intervention. (As in, the brain damage was definitely caused by lack of oxygen, but we don't have any proof that the baby was in distress from x time due to inadequate monitoring, so it is impossible to say at what time intervention should have happened - emcs within 15 minutes of recognizing problem - to prevent severity of disability). So the lack of adequate monitoring prevented emergency protocols being enacted, but the lack of adequate monitoring also means that no evidence exists as to when it should have happened - so not possible to state categorically that intervention should have happened at x time, and did not. They have recognized that monitoring was inaccurate, but can not confirm due to lack of monitoring when emcs should have taken place to improve outcome. So the actual negligent act itself is the defence of the trust. Go figure. This was also vbac, so should have had CFM.
Glad mnhq are blocking though.

[toastytoastbear]

pontification that is AWFUL. I really am so sorry for what your family has been put through! first birth indicates student was a first year, she should never have been left alone with responsibility!

[toastytoastbear]

cheers mumsnet

[Shallishanti]

yup, good call MN

[toastytoastbear]

you've not done a great job of blocking it MNHQ

[AngieMumsnet]

Hi

We had this blocked and the only thing I can think of is that they are buying under a different advertiser name now.
I am trying to look for it too but if someone sees it again can they click on it and grab the link in the address bar for me please, I can then block this that way.

Thanks

[toastytoastbear]

Thanks

[toastytoastbear]

www.bellabeat.com/shell?gclid=CKKMstK-588CFUoz0wodQBsHrg

[AngieMumsnet]

toastytoastbear

Thanks so much, looking into this now but I think Google have this ad mislabelled as something else so escalating to them right now.