AIBU to think MN shouldn't be advertising such dangerous shite?

[toastytoastbear]

home dopplers are bad enough - they can provide false reassurance to women who aren't trained to identify an accurate FHR, never mind the panic they can cause when a HR can't be found.

but FHR APPS ?! I'm fucking horrified that mn would allow a FHR app to be advertised on their pages. I've literally managed to get a healthy FHR reading from my FOOT.

They are SO dangerous. I'm sure I'll get replies saying 'oh it's just a bit of fun, no one would think its medically accurate'. Some women WILL think it's accurate, and not seek further reassurance from their midwife or hospital triage number.

dammit I can't manage bolding tonight for some reason!

The only ads I see on mumsnet are mainly related to my own Google searches/website visits. Right now all I'm seeing is ads for holidays to Koh Samui.

loved mine

It's cos you're cross

And that was an extremely callous remark Sanity

Just because you're educated doesn't mean you're always right.

You can make mistakes and it could be a fatal one with a Doppler

If people are stupid enough to ignore lack of movement then *unfortunately that's their lookout.

That's an awful thing to say.

I cannot see why you imagine that a less intelligent, less educated woman is more deserving of going through the heartbreak of discovering her child has died in the womb. Which is the logical conclusion of what you are saying.*

That is definitely not what I;;m saying. This thread says Dopplers are dangerous. They are NOT. Uneducated parents are dangerous and by that I don't mean less intelligent less academically educated - that's a different thing entirely.

If people are willing to ignore their midwives advice on movements banning a Doppler wont help them.

Why wouldn't they trust a Doppler for fetal movement? Midwifes do when you have a routine appoitment

That's exactly what most people think

I was paranoid about baby movements and in fact DD was probably brought out at 37 weeks entirely because I was so worried about it. In fact I think she was just facing inwards so I wasn't feing most of the movements. Never ever ever in my worst moments on the ward of being woken up 3 times a night for a heart rate check would I have considered a home Doppler. Agreed that these things should not be sold IMO.

(But I do think there has to be a happy medium as it's so easy to get totally wound up about what are probably perfectly normal movement patterns. As the pregnant mum you are the only one who can tell and unless you have a baby that moves a lot and consistently it's hard!)

Exactly pikachu. Can you even imagine trying to explain your way out of that one?!

No midwives listen for heartbeat and ask about movements - a Doppler doesn't record movements. Midwives also go on and on about monitoring movements - not listening to heartbeats.

sanity I think you're missing the point. FHR apps/ home dopplers are dangerous in the hands of untrained mothers. In other words, dopplers ARE dangerous in most 'home' cases. You can think you're educated and know how to use a Doppler but unless you're properly officially trained, you don't have the ability to interpret the FHR safely

Yabu. The doppler was a useful tool in my pregnancy. It certainly put my mind at rest but i knew as does everyone now ive spoken to about reduced movements. A tool just like a mobile phone.

Uneducated parents are dangerous and by that I don't mean less intelligent less academically educated - that's a different thing entirely

And how does one distinguish between different types of uneducated-ness?

You don't want to use one? Good for you, don't use one.

It's none of your business what other women choose to do. MN is just so full of busybodies falling over themselves to ban/report/log every detail of things that have nothing to do with them.

Why don't you just worry about your own lives/DCs and let others get on with theirs?

I bought a home doppler during my first pregnancy. DH was going away for over half my pregnancy, we wanted to have a go to see if he could hear the heartbeat before he went (we did) or he never would have. That was the only time it was used, it's been in a box since. Even at times of reduced movement it never occurred to me to check myself, I went to the maternity unit.
I refuse to sell it on second hand as I don't want someone else to rely on it and lose their baby. While it served the purpose we wanted it to, I do think they can, and are, used in an unsafe way. I've never heard of apps that claim to detect a fetal heart rate!

Even though I had one and used it I still visited the midwife and went to hospital when I had a pain in my side to be on the safe side. Id never take it as conclusive evidence everything was fine if I felt otherwise. I think it's just another tool.

Just last week I reviewed a patient in clinic (high risk pregnancy) who had experienced reduced movements at home the previous week, but had not sought medical help as she'd listened in with a friend's home doppler and the "heart beat was good". This is becoming relatively common.

YANBU OP.

I use mine to help my other DC connect with the baby, particularly eldest who has ASD and find sit all a bit abstract. Once a fortnight or so I let them each have a few seconds of listening in to the baby. I'd never use it for reassurance purposes or to self-diagnose a problem/lack of problem.

The boxes really do come stamped with warnings and this warning is repeated several times in the instruction booklet too, in bold and underlined. My maternity notes have an information section in them and on several pages, also underlined and in bold it states that any change in movements - both a decrease and/or a sudden increase - must be checked out and to call MAU for advice. It further states not to use home doppler for this purpose and to seek medical advice.

The warnings are very clear and very prominent.

I used one with dc2 so that dc1 could listen to and bond with the baby. I was planning to put it on ebay but this thread has convinced me not to, I would never forgive myself if I sold it to someone who used it instead of getting checked out by professionals when something was really wrong.

Why don't you just worry about your own lives/DCs and let others get on with theirs?

Because I am assume the OP and many others actually do worry about other people because they are decent people.

I agree with the OP. They can be dangerous and yes I care, because while it is none of my business really, I would feel really sad to hear that someone felt reduced movements, used the doppler thought the baby was ok, when in fact the baby had died.

So I am happy to let other get on with their lives but will express concern when I think people are doing something potentially dangerous.

Why don't you just worry about your own lives/DCs and let others get on with theirs?

There are midwives on this thread saying they are a bad idea. It's their job to be worried about other peoples DC.

They are dangerous. Almost anyone who works in obstetrics thinks they're dangerous and shouldn't be allowed. Because, and I can't stress this enough, babies have unnecessarily died as a result of home dopplers.

Saying "well I'm cleverer than most" and my "baby was fine" is the maddest argument ever!
People smoke during pregnancy. Lots of people justify themselves by saying "well my baby was fine", but they're not the ones who have to resuscitate a newborn or deal with the problems or IUGR.

If people are willing to ignore their midwives advice on movements banning a Doppler wont help them.

Sanity, you're missing the point.

It's not as if people deliberately think 'oh, I'll ignore that'. It's that they may not realise that a Doppler isn't entirely reliable, and may get confused.

You're conflating being 'educated' with being able to figure out which information in pregnancy is reliable, and which isn't. And not everyone manages that perfectly, especially when advertising is quite persuasive. I find it upsetting to think someone might be a little naive - or less able to figure out what to trust - and you think that's their problem.

Can I just remind posters that the Doppler app is so shite that the OP managed to record a healthy FH rate when she isn't even pregnant.

They are the equivalent of those lovely bomb detectors sold to security forces around the world by a British company. Detectors which were just empty cases with a wibbly wobbly aerial attached. Completely useless and misleadingly reassuring. At least that conman was jailed.

Agatha
Heartbreaking. People forget (understandably) how hideous it is to be embroiled in situations at work like this.

Going to go out on a limb here and say hat I am a fully trained doctor with many years of postgraduate experience.

There's no way I would feel confident assessing the health of a foetus based on Doppler readings alone.

I don't think they're inherently dangerous, but I don't think they're a good idea in untrained hands. Listen to your midwives and your movements.