National Union of Teachers calls for lesson teaching time to be capped at four hours a day - what do you think?

[JaneGMumsnet]

Hello,

We've been asked by Metro to find out your thoughts on the news that the National Union of Teachers (NUT) has said that teachers should spend no more than 20 hours a week taking classes (four hours a day).

The NUT called for new limits on working hours amid concerns that school staff are facing "totally unsustainable" workloads. In some cases, teachers are left with little time to eat, talk, think or even go to the toilet, the NUT's annual conference in Liverpool heard.

The NUT passed a motion demanding a new working week of 20 hours' teaching time, up to 10 hours of lesson preparation and marking, and five hours of other duties. Other duties include time spent inputting data and at parents' evenings. This marks a drastic reduction in teachers' hours, the conference heard.

NUT Coventry representative Christopher Denson claimed that official figures from 2010 show that a primary classroom teacher works 50.2 hours a week on average, while a secondary school teacher works an average of 49.9 hours. "The same data tells us that four in five teachers have worked all through a night to catch up with work and spend every single term-time Sunday catching up with lessons," Mr Denson said. He added: "It's essential that we act to ensure that what's already NUT policy - a maximum working week of 35 hours - becomes a reality for teachers."

Do you agree with the NUT's position?

If you are a teacher, do Mr Denson's comments resonate with you?

We'd love to hear your thoughts.

Many thanks,

MNHQ

[orangeandlemons]

8 mins to prepare a presentation! That's exactly what it is like. Dh spends about 5 hours on a one hour presentation

[TheNebulousBoojum]

'I used to have plenty of time pre dc and that was before the internet,white boards and guided reading.'

So did I. The job has changed.

[HariboAndWine]

I also wish the unions would choose their battles more wisely. Is it any wonder that the general public have such a negative view of teachers given the constant complaint and negativity spouted by unions. And I say that as a primary school teacher and union member. Teachers do work extremely hard as do people in other professions and the unions are doing us no favours by opposing every new initiative and implying teachers work harder than everybody else. I do work hard but refuse to believe any teacher who insist they work til midnight every night and through every holiday. I have never met a teacher who genuinely does this and fail to see why it would be even necessary. I do agree that the paperwork needs to be reduced to a level which allows teachers to concentrate on effective lesson preparation and delivery. I have no desire to spend more time away from my class as that is the part of my job I love.

[heggiehog]

What argument, that we don't get paid for holidays? We don't. That's a fact. Those are the terms of our contracts.

If I do at least 28 hours per week extra above my contract, every week, over the course of half a term that could add up to 196 unpaid hours.

That is a ridiculous amount of unpaid work that I do every single half term. I also work during my holidays...

I'm not even sure what point you're making?

[Squarepebbles]

At our school clubs are only run on one day,teachers only do one each and they finish at 4.30. They have meetings before school and often have extra non contact for planning.My dc are already taught by TAs for RE,art and French.These are the things I've heard about.

As a parent I personally would like a little more info re who and when is teaching my dc as they already seem to have far too much time being taught by staff not qualified as teachers.

[heggiehog]

Yes but HorryIsUpduffed the point is that this information IS readily available out there. All people have to do is ask us, or read threads like this, but most people won't bother to do that. They'd rather read and repeat the lies trotted out by politicians and the media.

So, thank you for showing an interest!

[Arisbottle]

I work until around 11pm or 12 pm most nights and know lots of other staff do by the time of their emails . I do not work during the holidays though. That is the choice I make

[Squarepebbles]

So basically other professions should work similar or more hours minus the holidays,gold plated pension,PPA hours and pay more tax to fund the demands of teachers?

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Well I agree that their job is a tough one, but what are they doing when they aren't teaching?

Lesson planning, marking, admin and data entry.

Why does it take so long? Find ways of speeding up.

[Arisbottle]

Ok starlight , I hadn't thought if just trying to do it quicker.

[Squarepebbles]

And on top have little security,pay freezes,increased work load etc,etc

[heggiehog]

"The NUT can campaign for more non-contact time but unless the public has a clear idea of what that time is, they won't be sympathetic."

Is it reasonable to expect that the public should have a minute-by-minute clear idea of what teachers do every single hour of their working life? As if there was a one-size model for us all anyway.

I don't have a minute-by-minute idea of what a GP does. I just know they're very busy, and have a lot of paperwork, on top of their patients and visits.

[heggiehog]

"Why does it take so long? Find ways of speeding up."

Gosh, why didn't teachers think of that?

[heggiehog]

Squarepebbles, I don't believe you have read a word of this thread.

[orangeandlemons]

Square pebbles. What are you on about? If you want your children taught to a high standard then give teachers more time to prepare high standard resources.

[exoticfruits]

Happy to teach the full day, 5+ hours, it's not that which drives teachers into depression or to run from the job. Just cut the huge amount of paperwork and the insane interference and the continuous government interventions

I agree entirely. Every hour in the classroom needs an hour out and there simply are not enough hours.
I think that we could do with a rethink about the hours. In the primary school we could have more than one teacher a class. Reducing class size would be another option. However, anything that costs money will not happen.

I do wish that we -for once and for all-get rid of the myth that teachers get paid for holidays! They DO NOT get paid for holidays.

[feelingdizzy]

I am a Teacher, my thoughts reading this ,Firstly am a member of NUT they didn't tell me.Feel left ou now..

In teaching the constant showing what you have done is a pain in the arse,the lesson plans-It can never go exactly as you bloody plan anyway because they are children not robots!!

I would like just to be able to do my job which I think I do well,and love it.Now all the teachers don't tell me you don't use online resources or re-use resources??? I work with SEN kids and obviously work need differentiating but doesn't mean that I don't re-use resources regularly,and without TES online resources I think I would resign.

Teaching is stressful ,but things like this don't do us any favours,honestly before being a Teacher I was a child protection social worker.Now that is stressful,in teaching nobody dies if I don't fill in an assessment checklist correctly.

I do think we are all so complicit in this feckin ridiculous level of paperwork,I think strike action should be on paperwork.Now that I would support .

[Arisbottle]

I get in at 7am, I set up my lessons for the day , deal with emails and an then on duty at 8:15. One morning a week I am in a senior team meeting from 8:15. I also use that time to catch up with other staff .

Most days I have at least one free period, if not two . That time will be used to mark. It takes me about two hours to mark a set of books.

During lunch time I tend to be on duty , running a club or doing tuition .

Every day after school I am either in a school event , meeting , club or extra teaching session until 5pm.

Until 6pm I am usually on the phone to parents , dealing with statistics, working with other staff ( I am responsible for behaviour and rewards across the school) I will also be dealing with emails, inputting data, updating displays etc before going home.

I start work again about 9pm and then do my marking and tweaking of existing plans until about midnight .

[TheNebulousBoojum]

Cut the time planning, oh yes.
Can we go back to proper teaching with textbooks and workbooks and children expected to work and not be entertained by some cavorting, exhausted multimedia expert spouting jargon?
Can we have a scheme for every subject composed of plans and resources for a sequence of outstanding lessons with all the requirements already in place?

[Arisbottle]

I suspect I spend much less time planning than other teachers . I use Internet resources , we plan with other schools, have department plans and just tweak.

[TheNebulousBoojum]

I mean, if all the little sausages produced by the sausage factory have to be equal and pass a standard or the teacher and the school is failing, then surely the method of production should be consistent?

[StarlightMcKenzie]

My Dad was a teacher-trainer. He was always whinging about the slow admin speeds of his students and lack of multi-tasking and efficiency skills, he said mainly came from never having been out of a school environment.

He said this as someone with severe dyslexia.

[Arisbottle]

I think ideally each department should have a scheme of differentiated work which would be classed as outstanding . That sounds very sensible to me , individual teachers then just tweak rather than going home each night and all creating roughly the same thing .

[StarlightMcKenzie]

'I suspect I spend much less time planning than other teachers . I use Internet resources , we plan with other schools, have department plans and just tweak.'

Yes. My Dad had marking-parties, and planning-parties. He saw no point in reinventing the wheel, although it is also important to acknowlege that lessons cannot be re-taught the same year after year in primary at least, as teachers are often faced with either a different year group or just a completely different set of children.

[TheNebulousBoojum]

How long ago was that, Star?