Primary-school places shortfall: what's happening where you live?

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello.

It's headline news today that one in five primary schools are now full or near capacity.

And, with 240,000 new primary-school places needed for 2014, the National Audit Office is saying the Department of Education "faces a real challenge... there are indications of strain on school places".

We were wondering how you all feel about this? Do you have a child due to start primary school in September? Are you aware of a shortage of places in your area? What steps are your local council taking to make school places available to all those who need one?

Please do let us know.

[nailak]

talkin what about it? our local secondary got an outstanding ofsted,

When I was at school, in a grammar, we had one bunsen burner between 3, it was fine, didnt effect our results.

[BoffinMum]

I've just helped to set up a new LA maintained school. They are still happening.

[Dancergirl]

Extremely worrying.

How are they fitting in all these bulge classes? At our primary school which is one form entry, there is literally one room for each class, no other space anywhere!

[Talkinpeace]

Boffin
primary or secondary?
and I'd be interested to know more - bearing in mind the Dfe link above

nailak
when I was at school there were no computers. Does not make it right today.

[mam29]

Im north bristol and bit worried. Iitially shortages were specific more urban areas im outer suberbs where they keep building huge brand new housing estates and no extra schools. I brand new school has 30 intake refused to expand aking school round corner take 90 a year.

the best performing non faith schools have very small catchments.
both are seperate infant junior but have a transfer arrangement so automatic entrance to linked juniors.

The 3nearest coe schools do not select on faith its just distance , sibling and cathment.

The roman catholics take children in care and catholics 1st.

Eldests started at rc primary we not catholic but was ok not too big primary wuthin walking distance of our house shes actually baptised coe.But the coes are all out of our catchment.

The large community primaries just seemed too large.

The rc catholic had 1.4intake 45 kids which I dont recomend as 15 always get left out, split freindships.

Her new school is coe village primary out of catchment we got in midyear were quite lucky however being out catchment I worry about 2younger siblings .

It has a pan of 20per year, mixed classes as only 5classes in entire primary, small hall, 3/5classes are porta cabins, old victorian building, no feild has village common,2very small playgrounds and no ict suite or additional rooms so theres no way it could expand on current site.

But when hospital shuts down they want to build more new houses and bigger school-reckon this could take years!Knowing the council it be houses 1st schools later.

child no 2 I apply this jan and find out next year shes due to start 2014 as sept-2009 was boom year but preschools quiet so reckon 2013 will have the bulk of boom kids I could be wrong.

child no 3 born 2011 due to start following year 2015.

but eldest have to apply for senior school places end of 2017 as starts sept 2018 seems mad to worry about something 4years away but ineveitably the shortage will flow onto seniors.

the best performing state seniors are rc and coe both small intakes.The best performing academies also have small intakes which just leaves the sink comps.

When they built all the houses the promised a senior school.
I asked mp at last election heard nothing since.

even contemplating sending eldest to school outside the city if needs be and log comute.

[nailak]

talkin, the issue of Bunsen burners is easily solvable, by working with lab partners, taking turns for one half to do practical and other half of class doing theory one lesson then swapping over etc, it is not an insurmountable problem tbh.

[KatieMiddleton]

I'm in Richmond. Every year there are some children who get no place at all. So the council in their wisdom have decided to give a site for a new Catholic school. This will be a school that will prioritise children from out of the area because of their parents' faith, over my child. Council are fuckers to do this

DS due to start reception in September. I don't think he'll get any place in the allocation, despite applying only for the closest three schools and he'll be on the waiting lists, hoping for a place before the summer so we can make plans.

[nailak]

where as no computers would be an insurmountable problem

[Corygal]

The Labour Govt always denied immigration levels were as never-before-seen high as they are - is that why there are no school places?

Did the Govt ignore the babies because otherwise they'd have had to admit to the existence of the parents? Sounds like it.

Re London - I'm confused. Many of the middle classes have moved out of London already, as self-payers unable to house their children affordably. We're endlessly being told the birth rate of established residents is going down. Is the shortage of school places entirely immigrant-driven? What else could it be?

[Talkinpeace]

tiggytape
LEAs were not given the choice.
Once Broon and Bliar had decided that Acdemies would patch that plaster
and Fove grabbed the idea with gusto

the "authorities" were stopped from building schools according to need - as they always used to do.
they should be allowed to again.

MN posters - if you can vote in this country, lobby your MP NOW

[BoffinMum]

2 primaries have opened with one more in the pipeline. Secondary school due to open in about 3 years or so as well.

[nailak]

erm baby boon? like mentioned lots of times on this thread! more housing meaning more families in the area....

[BoffinMum]

Clever LAs get developers to fund new schools.

[mam29]

Im guessing as they primary burners not an issue.

As for no ict suite eldest school has 1coputer every class and laptops on trollies which they share and libary has computer.

At her old school had ict suit and shared between 3kids per session.

I do feel they should make developers fund new schools.

just researched my area and there,s planning permission for 2500new homes with possibly primary and land allocated for seniors if needed.

I imagine planning permission, funding and building takes years .

I thourght maybe i dreamed it councils were prevented from building new lea schools and new ones would be free schools or academies.

No ones forward thinking my side of city to even suggest a free school.

At the moment people buy school places by paying overinflated prices for their houses and are quite smug mostly older established areas.

The new executive new build estate where im sure they paid high price never came with a school so either they counting to nearby villages or using private rather than attend the nearest community primary which to be fair is improving but had very mixed intake and known for being good for behavioural issues.

I see classrooms even being placed on top of rooftops seems mad.

Bristol is severe shortage got more money from departments education but hundred of kids dont get any of 3choices here for some reason london seem to get 6choices wondering if they should implement that here.

i would never trust an estate agent when looking at a house.

so many places say 60intake 30 easily can go to siblings.

I have 3 lots people have 3 locally.

primary places not announced until next month not heard much noise about seniors but some missed out 1st/2nd choices.

I think they forsee problems not for 2013 intake but more 2014 /15.

extra senior places needed here inner city from 2017 but wider city and surrounding areas 2019.

[Talkinpeace]

boffin
will they be "maintained schools"
and are they south of Milton Keynes?

[KatieMiddleton]

Not much immigration here (unless you count those who move out of Clapham for a bit more space!) but there people who are here cannot afford to move so where they would have moved further out they haven't but mainly there are lots of people who would have educated privately that are now looking at state.

[KatieMiddleton]

Not sure what happened there. I'm not illiterate really! There should be 3 sentences, not one mammoth one

[mam29]

There,s variety of reasons why.

some regionally specific.

1)rising birthrate.

2)recession-less people go private.Fees in london/south east independents much higher than south west or wales for example.

3)economic migration people move wheres thres jobs so that means london, south east, other large cities and towns.

4) lack of money commuting long distances by car, train, bus very expensive so people choose to live and work same place.
5)people cant afford to move I know we cant most people choose to stay out and extend.

6)those who do move put to surroundimg area ie essex , kent just put problems with numbers on them the shortages spread.

7)immigration maybe just here but find different cultures drawn to specfic areas almost like a ghetto.
Im in outer mostly white leafy suberbs yet the rc school has high amount of polish kids.People I know in more urban areas seem to talk more about somali kids.


8)social housing-most are new build has as every developer has to build so many affordble homes so those offered would not have much choice I guess if they want a home they go where houses are then find out theres no school places.

9)The extremes of bad schools in city makes the good areas and good schools very oversubscribed.I guess if all schools were good situation be better.

10)faith schools overcoplicate some areas,
Love idea of bilingial schools we have none here that sounds good.

The free schools suggested are

steiner
all through 3-18-cant say im keen that idea
or other side of city.

lot of sink seniors and now primaries now academies by name but still doing rubbish.

[pootlebug]

I am lucky in that I got my eldest into a bulge class in 2nd-nearest school last year and so next will get in on a sibling place.

We need to blame the last government as well as this one though - they have known about 2008/2009/2010 baby booms and immigration for some time.

My kids school have been promised a new building for years. Promised by previous labour government. Still no sign of actual new building....just a series of portacabins taking over the playground. The staff are wonderful and doing a great job but it seems it would be much easier with good purpose-built accommodation instead of 1950s prefabs and portacabins.

[lottieandmia]

Where I live all the primary schools are oversubscribed and last year there were newspaper reports about people getting school placements that they would not be able to walk to and which would involve driving across town to.

When I was a child in the same town there were more spaces available for people to join in the middle of a year from what I remember.

[MerryCouthyMows]

It will be September 2015 in my area that a perfect shitstorm of lack of school places hits my area.

We have one of the highest density building projects in the whole country going on right now.

In September 2015, not only will the intake for Primary schools be at their highest ever (requiring an entire 2-FE Primary school) through both higher levels of birth AND influx of families into brand new housing, BUT the current 'largest' school year, which has bulge classes, and classes well in excess of 30, will be starting Secondary school. We also need a new Secondary school for 2015!

I am particularly concerned, as I will have DS2 starting Secondary in September 2015, AND DS3 starting Primary at the same time. So I could be facing a Secondary age DS2 without an accessible Secondary place at the same time as having DS3 without an accessible Primary place, with no way of getting either of them to these schools, as DS2 has SN's and won't cope with public transport alone (but will still be in MS school), and DS3 ALSO has SN's...and I can't drive due to disability.

Frankly, I'm shitting bricks and trying to ignore it!

Today a site has been found for the new Primary school - but it is too far away to have any effect on the intake of the schools that could be considered OUR local schools. Still no firm plans for Secondary places, despite the fact that the LA has known for 5 years already that the local Academy will be unable to cope.

Our towns infrastructure doesn't support public transport on time to non local Secondaries, because the traffic gets snarled every morning at a bottleneck in both directions, preventing bus travel to other Secondaries.

Should be fun then, they have 2.5yrs to find a site AND build a Secondary - problem is, they already KNOW they are working over a year behind schedule and it won't be open in time for September 2015.

So quite what will happen to DS2'a intake is beyond me...

September 2015, current conservative estimates show that there will be a shortfall of between 127-157 Primary places in one end of the town alone, and a shortfall of around 135 Secondary places. And that's working in the LA's rather hopeless formula that allows NO children in flats that are being built, ONE child in 2-bed houses that are being built, 1.5 children in 3-bed houses that are being built, and 2 children in the few 4-bed houses that are being built.

My experience in this town is more like 2 DC's in flats, 2/3 in 2-bed houses, 3/4 in 3-bed houses, and anything from 4-10 DC's in 4-bed houses...

I think their estimates are going to be found to be wildly inaccurate, even allowing for houses where no school age children are resident...

Like I said, a perfect shitstorm approaching...

[MerryCouthyMows]

Oh - and LA's last-ditch solution - some 11yo's and lots of 4yo's travelled 30 miles away to the next town to go to schools with spaces there.

They wouldn't have to pay the transport either, as my LA has a tiny rule embedded in their transport rules that says that they only have to cover the transport if the school offered for a 4yo is over 2 miles away or UNDER 7 miles away, (if its over 7 mikes away, they don't have to fund the transport unless it is for a specific SEN school...), and for an 11yo if the school offered is over 3 miles away and UNDER 9 miles away. (Again, with the codicil of that not applying if it is the only suitable SEN school for the DC.)

What a way to wriggle out of any delays in providing a new school - oh look, we are sending your 4yo 30 miles away to Reception. Transport? Not our problem - you are over 7 miles away.

You can appeal, but as all the schools locally haven't even got room for demountables, it's not as if they can even be FORCED to take more than 1/2 more pupils even on a successful appeal. What about the other 120/150 4yo's?!

[MerryCouthyMows]

To the person asking about two-level primaries - my primary has had to expand upwards, first if all the upstairs classroom was used for KS1 classes (bulge class), it has been out if use for 1.5 years currently, but will be needed again next year.

This is because current Y6 is a very small intake - last of the 1FE yr groups. All other years are 2-FE now, except Y4, which is 3-FE.

So when Y6 leave, current Y4 will need the upstairs classroom again.

This school was actually built as a 0.5FE school 22 years ago, to cope with the overspill from the original village and estate schools. Another 2-FE Primary was opened 3.5 years ago, and we need ANOTHER now, plus this one expanding PAST it's possible maximum.

The foundations aren't strong enough to support any further upwards additions. That and the design of the building meant it was only possible to go up in one place, allowing for only one extra classroom.

That's the reason lots of schools don't expand upwards - the cost of shoring up the foundations like our school had to.

The LA wants the HT to take a bulge class every 3/4 years by losing the library as well, but this has so far been resisted!