Primary-school places shortfall: what's happening where you live?

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello.

It's headline news today that one in five primary schools are now full or near capacity.

And, with 240,000 new primary-school places needed for 2014, the National Audit Office is saying the Department of Education "faces a real challenge... there are indications of strain on school places".

We were wondering how you all feel about this? Do you have a child due to start primary school in September? Are you aware of a shortage of places in your area? What steps are your local council taking to make school places available to all those who need one?

Please do let us know.

[RugBugs]

I was working in the director's office of one of the London LEA's already mentioned back in 2004/05 and even back then they were well aware of the rising birth rate and the issues it was going to cause down the line.
Off the top of my head there were something like 70 primaries and the planning that went into managing surplas vs shortfall of places was staggering.

If a development is of a large enough size then the planning authority will seek to include schools etc as part of the developers section106 agreement, convoys wharf for example (totally outsself).

[DontmindifIdo]

Phineyj - it's been discussed over and over, the main sticking point is faith schools are usually owned by the Church of their particular denomination, not by the state, even though they are run as state schools. If the state insisted they had to be secular, there's no reason to presume the churches would just hand over the school buildings without the state having to pay for them. (Or that the churches might just run them as private schools)

If the churches just closed the schools, that leaves an even bigger problem for state school places.

There seem to be bigger problems round where I live over the last 2-3 years because a lot of planning seems to be based on a certain percentage of families in this town using private schools. With the downturn, a lot aren't. We've got prepschools with empty spaces for this coming September, that's not normal.

[morethanpotatoprints]

We live in one of the largest towns in the N.W. (Lancashire)/ Manchester.
There are no problems here.
We have lots of small schools with small classes. When dd left y3 last year the class had 25, since then 3 more have left and gone to other schools in the town.

[NiniLegsInTheAir]

Not a problem for me right now as DD won't be starting school until September 2015, but I find the whole situation very worrying as we're planning to move if necessary to get a school place for her. What EXACTLY is being done about this problem?

If anyone here has experience of how bad the situation is in Cheltenham, can they PM me?

[Talkinpeace]

The Government needs to permit Local Authorities to open new schools according to need.
Free schools can be opened.
And Academy sponsors can take over existing schools.
But LEAs cannot open new schools where they are needed.

DAFT

[amidaiwish]

Richmond borough, the shortage of school places isn't new. Dd1 started school 5 years ago and even then many local kids didn't get offered anything! Eventually they got places in neighbouring boroughs crap, the ones everyone else turned down.

DDs school is 90 intake per year. 700 in total. It isn't too much if well managed though parking a nightmare.

[insanityscratching]

Dd's school is currently being extended so two more classes are being built on to the existing school.
Numbers at dd's school have increased by 40% since it opened 4 years ago and it's now over its numbers so the two classrooms won't really account for the increase it will just meet the need this year. No idea what will happen next year though I assume it will just become overcrowded again.

[WhatWouldGrandmaDo]

We're in a large Hertfordshire town within the M25 (lots of commuters). At DS1's school, this year is their 'turn' for the bulge - it seems that every couple of years various primaries have to take up the surplus because there simply aren't enough places. DS1 is yr 1 but the extra reception class is in a portakabin on what was playground. I know that a number of local kids didn't get a place until the very last minute. A large development of town houses & flats was under construction next to the school and completed about a year ago and I think we were very lucky that no one had moved in there before we applied for DS1's place as based on proximity, you can't get much closer (we're only about half a mile away).

I'm reasonably confident that DS2 - due to start reception Sep 2014 - will get a place on the sibling rule. However our council in their infinite wisdom are trying to push through a development of about 600 new homes just up the road and when you point out the lack of school places (and dentist / GP - our local surgery isn't taking new patients) their attitude is pretty much to shrug and say 'well we aren't allowed to base planning decisions on things like infrastructure'. madness gone mad.

[tallulah]

Children from our road have been going to the local primary since 1936. Last year DD didn't get in because most of the places were taken by siblings. This year they have a bulge class, so she would have got in :( . Several schools have had to add bulge classes this year. There is a new school opening this September on the new housing estate that has just been built, so that's a good start, but it's only going to get worse. There are 2 other huge housing estates under construction locally :(

The current Y6 is the last of the low-birth years. DD was born in 2007 which was a really high birth year. As others have said I worry what will happen at secondary level because nobody seems to be heeding the warning from the primary problem.

Our local paper keeps insisting that there are places, just not where people live . Perhaps they need to do a full census of children to find out exactly how many there are of what age, and where they live, and then plan the schooling around the facts.

[WhatWouldGrandmaDo]

coincidentally an article from our local paper just popped up on my twitter timeline about this - according to that, there will be a deficit of 36 places for five to eleven-year-olds this September, which will rise to 83 by next year, and 163 in 2015. The council's Education Director puts this down to more people in flats having children (I guess he means they previously expected flats to be couples only but people can't afford to move up the housing ladder into houses now).

[Phineyj]

DontmindifIdo, that's interesting, thanks, (to be honest I had not taken much interest in this aspect of education until DD came along but it doesn't surprise me it's a typical British fudge!), however, if the state is funding these schools (which surely it must be? Or does the CofE pay all salaries etc, too?) then it could require them to drop the religious aspect from the admissions. Alternatively, as another poster suggested, give non-religious parents priority for the secular schools. I don't object to schools having a religious ethos as such, as long as the children are allowed to ask questions -- but I don't see why they should get to both accept state funding and discriminate against a large chunk of the population.

[dawntigga]

mumofthemonsters808 I still know people in the Hollingworth/Mottram area who have been saying for years there is no point in building houses if there's nowhere for the kids to go to school.

AlsoMottramAndHollingworthNeedAByPassTiggaxx

[NK2b1f2]

My first thought, lovely, dd2 is starting reception in 2014.

[Jojobump1986]

I think all our local primaries do a 2-class intake & there's a lot of competition for places, even at the not-so-good schools. They opened a reception class on the site of a secondary school last year & I've heard rumours that they're hoping to build a new primary in the area. No idea where they're going to squeeze it in though!

Personally, I wonder if the solution could be for the government to encourage homeschooling. Perhaps by providing parents/homeschooling groups with small financial incentives they could make it easier & more affordable for parents to educate their children themselves & then they wouldn't need to worry about finding places or finances to build so many schools.

[StiffyByng]

RugBug, isn't the Government planning to drop section 106, or at least change its use?

[PoppyWearer]

We live in Surrey commuter-belt. Local school is outstanding. We moved here for the school, plus commuter links. Luckily we were early to move here after the Ofsted report, because in the past couple of years there has been a HUGE influx of families for that reason. DC1 got in, which should mean DC2 dos too.

Haven't RTFT, but I imagine someone had already mentioned the impact of the economy? We definitely fall into the bracket of higher-earners who in times-gone-by would have been able to afford private education, but with uncertainty over DH's sector and reduced bonuses, etc, we just can't risk over-extending ourselves and decided to take the hit on the mortgage/house instead, to move to an area where the schools were good.

I do think the Ofsted ratings have created the problem in part. There are other perfectly decent schools in nearby towns but no one wants their children to go there, everyone competes for the "outstanding" ones.

[TenthMuse]

I'm in suburban North London and a teacher. As well as rising birth rates, my borough has high levels of new immigrants and inward migration from pricier parts of London, which has increased dramatically since the housing benefit cap came in. Most schools are either expanding permanently or have at least one bulge class. The few that are refusing to expand for safety/space reasons (including one I used to work in) are having their funding reduced by the council.

There are an increasing number of 'super-schools' in the local area - one primary near me is in the process of expanding to take 840 children, and it's far from being the exception. The school has no field and the new development will reduce the already tiny playground. At other schools I know of, children are being taught in corridors, or doing subjects that need more space/resources (music, ICT, PE) on a rota basis. Since school halls are usually used for lunches as well as lessons, there's often reduced teaching time for e.g. PE/drama, as tables have to be set up for lunch and then packed away afterwards. Lunch rotas with three or four sittings mean that many children are only given ten minutes to eat their lunch before the next lot come in - hardly conducive to developing a healthy relationship with food! Catchments for the most popular schools are now down to the nearest one or two roads. Last year across the borough 99 children had no school place at all, and 162 more weren't offered places at any of their six primary choices.

So many councils seem to be panicking now, when they should have picked up on the increasing birth rates years ago and realised that more school places (and more schools) would be needed. Instead we now have this mad rush to cram more children into existing schools and build on any spare piece of green space. So far there seems to be no action at all on secondary places - perhaps the councils are just hoping these extra children will disappear?

It's madness, and unless drastic action is taken soon, it's only going to get worse. The quality of education will inevitably suffer in such overcrowded conditions (and I say that as someone who has to teach in them!)

[RugBugs]

Stiffybyng I think the ability to re-negotiate old S106 agreements will sadly focus more on developers trying to reduce their % of affordable homes, developers trying to limit how much of the building waste is recycled.
The amounts that authorities get from residential developments is quite small and typically limited to grass verges/lampposts etc.

[Talkinpeace]

MAKE THE GOVERNMENT LET LOCAL AUTHORITIES OPEN SCHOOLS WHERE THEY ARE NEEDED.

Gove has a political antipathy to LEAs - hence half of Secondary schools are now outside LEA control
but it means that the "Council" is not allowed to open new schools - it can expand existing ones - so long as they are not Academies
but it cannot open a new one

even in a town like Southampton that has no Secondary school at all in the City Centre - because the plot was sold for housing in the early 1990's

[burntoutdad]

our local primary (and I believe most others around here) had originally taken on what was initially described as a 'bulge' year for year 1. This has now become a permanent intake (from 3 to 4 form intake now) which makes an already big school, massive.
What I find concerning is where do all these pupils go in 3,4 -5 years time? The secondary schools are already over subscribed and will have to take this massive increase. It is as though that impact hasn't even been considered yet!

[sunshine401]

There are loads of spaces in schools round here. I think only two get filled to max.

[Roseformeplease]

Loads of space up here in the Highlands of Scotland! Tiny classes and schools, cheap property, better weather than you would think. All very, very welcome!

[Iggity]

Hillingdon is opening two new schools and several other schools are building extensions.

Our first choice school is a 30 class entry Catholic school which we are in catchment for but no idea what our chances are. 2nd school is also Catholic which takes 90 but we are not in catchment. Both are rated outstanding. Our other 4 choices are state schools but would really not be happy sending DS to any of them despite them being rated good or outstanding.

We are lucky that we generally have good/outstanding schools in our area (Ruislip). I'm pretty certain we will get a place somewhere close to us as we are wedged in between one good school and another outstanding one but neither are the actual two that we want.

We did look into private but the only one that was semi convenient was going to charge us a term's fees if we accepted and then turned down the place. Fair enough but we aren't millionaires and given the calibre of the state/faith schools, not too disappointed.

Praying hard!

[TruthSweet]

SE here - DD1 & 2's primary was built as a middle school with a 1 class intake originally (so approx 150 children), it's now been a 3 class intake for the last 2 years so has roughly 480 children (Yr & Y1 3 classes and Y2-6 2 classes). Luckily it was built on a very large site so has room to expand.

The next closest school had when DD1 started YR split intake classes (YR & Y1 were one class) and was close to shutting, now it's heaving due to the baby boom.

I'm not sure that large intake schools are a modern issue, I'm in my 30's & my junior school had a 6 class intake but the 6 classes were amalgamated into 5 classes in the 2nd year & had 35+ children in each class (only 1 teacher & no TA per class of course!)