New childcare tax break to be announced by the Government today - what do you think?

[JaneGMumsnet]

David Cameron and Nick Clegg are due to unveil new childcare plans in a joint press conference today, with further detail expected to follow next week.

According to reports, families could be entitled to claim up to £2,000 per child every year from their tax bills, to cover the cost of childminders and nurseries as part of a new government scheme to help families.

The new measures will not be means tested, and will replace the current voucher and allowances scheme.

We'd be interested to hear what you think of these proposed changes, particularly in the light of the changes to child benefit which have been implemented today.

Thanks,

MNHQ

[thesnootyfox]

Does anyone know when this proposed change is due to take place?

[ihategeorgeosborne]

I notice some on here seem to think that SAHPs shouldn't get tax relief for child care for the working spouse. Why the hell shouldn't they? What if I want to retrain and go back to college or University to do a course? What if I want to work as a volunteer to try and increase my skill set and experience to stand me in good stead for a future paid job? There are many reasons why single earner households would benefit from tax relief for child care. We don't all bugger off for the day and have facials and manicures you know.

[concessionsavailable]

namechanger
It is absolutely definitely the case that, for both DH and I, if we leave our current employment, we will forfeit any accumulated vouchers. We have looked into this very very carefully, as we both have shit insecure jobs are considering moving onto other roles, while at the same time we have each lovingly squirrelled away the maximum possible childcare vouchers while I am on mat leave with DD2, in anticipation of the many thousands of pounds we're going to start paying from next month when I return to work. Now, that forfeit rule may be part of the particular childcare voucher company our firms use or it may be something our employers have inserted (nb we work in totally different industries). But it is something which has exercised us hugely, trying to decide whether to take the risk of saving vouchers and watching them go poof/ trying to pay nursery in advance, or whether to simply not bother and then lose one year's allowance.
It is one of the many flaws of the current crappy scheme, but I don't see this new one helping us either.

[PolkadotCircus]

I hate I know I need to retrain ASAP now we'll lose CB so why shouldn't we actually get something for a change.

[OscarPistoriusBitontheside]

I'm one of these single earning households that would benefit from a tax rebate in childcare. DH is the earner and I am a full time student. He currently saves he maximum in vouchers each month so I can getting degree. It's naive at best to suggest the single earning households don't need childcare.

[olgaga]

ihategeorgeosborne Well said.

In any case, the main motivation is that it benefits children - in the same way that a couple of free playgroup sessions did when my DD was pre-school. If I remember rightly they had to be 2yrs 9months before you could take it up.

Much of the pressure for it came from education think-tanks, as it helps children of pre-school age to get used to a more structured environment, and mix with other children and adults.

Typical attitude towards "freeloading" SAHMs. Not to mention the fact that if we all decided to take up paid employment outside the home the increased demand for childcare would restrict its availability and drive up the cost even further.

[Tincletoes]

Concessions are you sure that you will lose the vouchers? It's certainly not a legal condition of receiving them - and in fact my DH left his job recently but retained the vouchers earned when he was in that employment.

[PolkadotCircus]

I find it so sad that mothers wanting to stay at home with their children are now looked down upon.When did this all happen?

Would be nice if for once mothers were helped to actually be with their children.

What children need or want( and their mothers)now comes rock bottom,in fact nobody in gov even bothers to look or ask the question.Those of us that have done it seem to be getting slated more and more these days.I really don't see how this gov can proclaim to be trying to help families-the reality is the complete opposite.

[izzyishappilybusy]

CONCESSIONS the money deducted buys cc vouchers. These then form a pot for paying across - my voucher provider has told me I can stockpile them and they will be valid if I give up work.

I don't see how they can be suddenly invalid as they are yours. Yiuxdobt bought them.

I think you may have been given wrong advice. I will be double checking withy provider myself tomorrow.

[NorthernLurker]

If it is indeed limited to under fives then I think that's just another Tory attempt to look generous whilst doing bugger all. Many, many women choose to stay at home for the relatively short time between maternity leave ending and dc starting school. Still more women return after the first child then stop work after a second for a couple of years. This 'policy' will do nothing for those women and I agree that sahps in general are losing out massively under this government. Personally I have worked when all my dcs were young. If I had an under five now this policy would possibly do something for me - but not for my friends who have chosen to stay at home for a time and whose decision frankly should be as respected and rewarded as mine. What is the return the government has given many sahms this week? Nicked their child benefit and now ignored them.

[NorthernLurker]

Also I think izzy is right about vouchers. When I got them they were in an electronic account and could be paid as I needed. Which provider are you with?

[MmeLindor]

Olgaga
I would like to see subsidised childcare, or at least see it looked more closely at. I don't know the numbers, or how it is paid for but in Germany Kindergartens for age 3 to 6 years are subsidised, and these are being extended to under 3yo DC too.

We paid about EU 300 a month for 2 children in full time childcare, in an excellent setting with well trained teachers. And that was the top of the scale. Families with lower income pay less, or even nothing at all.

Why does it work in Germany, but not here? They don't have any complicated voucher schemes - childcare is cheap, and they receive about double our child benefit.

[jasperc163]

Can anyone tell me where it says that this childcare vouchers 'alternative' would not be able to be used with childminders for children above 5? Both DH and I take the full 243 alllowed per month. As of this sept when DD2 goes to school we would still need the vouchers to cover holiday childcare.

The feeling seems to be that this would no longer be allowed?

[Strix]

Hmmm... Some of these posts seem a bot patronising, and also seem to be arguing points I did not make.

I do not look down upon sahps. Quite tge conteary. It must be nice to be able to afford such luxuries. I do however object to having to work long hours and rarely see my own children so that i can contribute to you childcare costs. Do you really think that is fair? What makes your children more worthy of your presence than mine are of my presence.

Where do you think the government gets their money, if not from other parents who would also like to be home with their children?

[hatgirl]

It was sad to realise that the Telegraph article (linked in the OP), Guardian article, Independent Article, Daily Mail article are all written by men, Radio 4s PM programme had three men and a male MP discussing it. Where are all the female voices in the popular media discussing something that will primarily impact on women and the choices women have to make regarding work and childcare. grrr

[BoyMeetsWorld]

If this has an under 5s cut off I will actually lose the will - all that's been keeping me going on with entire salary going on childcare is the thought that it will get better when kids start school. Agree this is actually going to put lots of mums off returning to work after 5 years.

Only thing I can think in relation to being 'worse off' than vouchers - if we were savvy, could we not claim the £2k back, put it in an account & - with great discipline- split it into 4 chunks of £500 (so not much less than the current amount 'saved' with vouchers) and pay ourselves installments each month to spread it. So tax break from age 2-5 could be claimed, accumulated & used to spread across age 3-14 (or 3-11 if you wanted a tiny bit more each month). Faffy system though.

[AnnieLobeseder]

Excellent point hatgirl.

[WidowWadman]

"Where are all the female voices in the popular media discussing something that will primarily impact on women and the choices women have to make regarding work and childcare. grrr "

Why is it women who have to make choices in your opinion? A father chooses as much as a mother whether to continue working or not.

It's a good thing when they get away from framing it as a "affecting women" instead of "affecting families" issue.

[PolkadotCircus]

Strix well stay at home with them then,it's your choice as it should be.

When you become a sahp you ruin you ruin your career,have no pension,have years of tight budgeting,it's often boring and it's mighty difficult to get back into work.Some of us have no choice but to be a sahp and some choose to.Most mums that do it do it for their dc not because they particularly enjoy sitting at home unstimulated,broke and run ragged at times.It's hardly a rose garden 24/7. Yes it's great at times but so is working and having a career.

Lately sahp seem to be depicted as spoilt,rich yummy mummies with little to do but frittering money on coffee and manicures.

Mums and dads should all be supported in their choices (which we all do for the good of our dc )whatever they are not penalised or criticised because of some idealised picture and subsequent jealousy.

[hatgirl]

I agree completley WidowWadman it should be both partners making the choices... it doesn't change the hard facts though that like it or not it is still primarily women that this will affect and it is women that are generally the ones that feel they have to make that choice, and yet most of the mainstream news have chosen to have it discussed only by men. Why not a mixture of male and female voices?

My point and your point are really two separate issues regarding the same common cause.

[olgaga]

Strix
I do not look down upon sahps. Quite tge conteary. It must be nice to be able to afford such luxuries. I do however object to having to work long hours and rarely see my own children so that i can contribute to you childcare costs.

If that's not patronising I don't know what is. Everyone who pays tax funds services they may not ever benefit from. I am happy to pay tax to fund childcare for children whose parents may not otherwise be able to afford to give them that experience.

I think if you are so angry about missing your children, working long hours and (gasp) paying tax you'd better reconsider your lifestyle and give up work. Your choices are your responsibility.

[WidowWadman]

They will continue feeling that they have to make that choice when it is continued as being referred to as women's choice or issue. It's a bit of a chicken and egg thing - it is that way for many as it is still thought and talked about that way for many, so it selfperpetuates.

I'm not against women being invited to discuss this too (and am generally in favour of mixed panels), at all, I'm just thinking the less childcare is called a women's issue the more likely it is to become an issue affecting both sexes in people's heads.

That said - I haven't listened to PM today so don't know whether the men discussing it have referred to it as a women's issue or not.

[HomeEcoGnomist]

I want all of my childcare costs (some £2000 per month) to be taken out of my income before I am taxed, and I don't want my pension contribution to be affected as they are with the current voucher scheme. If this was implemented, we would find a lot more nannies being paid on the books.

^^ this
Childcare is a cost of going to work and should be tax deductible.

[SizzleSazz]

When DC were under 5, it cost me £30 per (full) day for a CM (Which i know is cheap!)

Now they are at school it costs me £18 per day for before and after school (and i still have to finish at 4.15 to pick up in time).

So, although cheaper, i have to finish earlier as hours are more restrictive. I cannot see why on earth they think the benefit should only be to age 5. I think Govt think normal school hours allow parents to work 40hrs a week for 48 weeks a year

[SizzleSazz]

^ per child that is!