New childcare tax break to be announced by the Government today - what do you think?

[JaneGMumsnet]

David Cameron and Nick Clegg are due to unveil new childcare plans in a joint press conference today, with further detail expected to follow next week.

According to reports, families could be entitled to claim up to £2,000 per child every year from their tax bills, to cover the cost of childminders and nurseries as part of a new government scheme to help families.

The new measures will not be means tested, and will replace the current voucher and allowances scheme.

We'd be interested to hear what you think of these proposed changes, particularly in the light of the changes to child benefit which have been implemented today.

Thanks,

MNHQ

[Strix]

Current childcare vouchers can be used at a variety of places (i.e. Kip McGrath). It will be interesting to see if that continues.

[LilyBolero]

I CANNOT for the life of me see the logic of saying;

The child benefit cut unfairly discriminates against single income families.

So to offset that,

we're going to give £2k PER CHILD to dual income families.

So, a family on one income of 60k loses every penny of their child benefit.

A family on two incomes of 49k (ie totalling 98k) keeps every penny of their child benefit AND gets this new tax break of 2k per child.

A family on two incomes of 1,000,000 (for example), totalling 2MILLION loses their child benefit, but gets this new tax break.

It is total insanity. And it seems like an ideological policy to force mothers back to work, totally going against their 'traditional family' stance. The 'most family friendly government ever' they claimed. I think not.

And who is going to run the so called Big Society once all the SAHMs are forced back to work? Who is going to go and help in schools? And what about people who cannot go out to work for whatever reason?

Dual income families ALREADY have 2 personal allowances, meaning they can earn a LOT more as a family before paying tax. The child benefit should have remained universal, as it is simple and fair. This is just a slap in the face for SAHMs.

[SuiGeneris]

NotAQueef: it sounds like you have a great arrangement. I wonder if more employers might be prepared to set something similar up? DH and I would def go for it!!

[TimeyWimeyStuff]

Link below to the document that was published today. I can't see any mention of this scheme. Has anyone seen confirmation of it anywhere?

assets.cabinetoffice.gov.uk.s3-external-3.amazonaws.com/midtermreview/HMG_MidTermReview.pdf

(Maybe I missed it while skim reading)

[TimeyWimeyStuff]

Sorry, I see Strix mentioned that already.

Subject now being discussed on BBc News channel. Looks like it hasn't been announced after all.

[Strix]

Does anyone actually like the proposals (if they ever announce them)? Or do you think the whole thing is political suicide for both parties?

I think people are so angry about the loss of CB that even if they are given more under a tax benfit scheme they will still remember the anger come time to vote.

[Strix]

e-petition for tax deductible childcare

[olgaga]

Most childminders I know around here (this is outside London) charge £4 per hour per child, and look after a maximum of 3 children.

They all say that is the absolute limit they can manage on their own. My friend has 3 children two days a week 8-6 pm, 10 hours with no break. So that's two days at £120 per day. She also has to do the school run with her youngest two. She's completely exhausted on those days.

The other 3 days she has two children, so she earns a total of £520 per week, term time only. She doesn't get paid for holidays or sick leave, or days when children are ill and can't come. So she gets about 35 weeks a year on average, just over £18,000 gross.

I'm not sure how the cheapest childcare could be any cheaper than it already is!

[Strix]

"so no more state paid childcare for SAHP's"

Ermm... do I go to work to pay my own childcare so I can contribute to childcare for those who don't go to work.... really??? Or are you just having fun winding me up?

Now, I am not talking about people who are unable to work. But, those who simply prefer not to.

Or maybe I missed the point.... please enlighten me.

[Strix]

Childminders in my area charge about £7.00 per hour per child. So if you had say two under fives and you needed ten hour days to go to your 8 hour a day job, that would run you:
£700 per week
£35,000 per year (assuming two weeks when childminder is not paid, e.g. her hols)
£2,917 per month

And that's only two children!

The cost of childcare is crippling in this country. Until the government addresses this issue, lots of parents (men and women) will not be able to go to work and pay taxes and otherwise contribute to the economic recovery.

[bigkidsdidit]

Discussing it on pm now

[olgaga]

Strix it might be unpaid, but it is still work. That's why, if you do it for someone else's children and clean their house, you tend to get paid for it.

I think you mean paid employment, not work.

[olgaga]

Strix so childminders in your area charge the NMW? How very dare they!

[fufulina]

I am also outraged that the telegraph article makes this the woman's issue.

[Headinbook]

How will it be claimed back? Will it be managed through PAYE, or will another great raft of people be pushed into Self Assesment?

[curryeater]

No, you can't pay the childminders less, but there could be subsidy

[nannynick]

Childminders run a business, nurseries run a business, how could Government ever start to tell them what they have to charge people?
Lowering childcare costs won't work in my view... I can't see how it can be done. Raising NMW can be done but then the Big Employers would moan I suspect. Are salaries too low rather than childcare costs being too high? Nursery staff can often be on NMW or there about, so if Government increased NMW cost of childcare would go up.

Government subsidy of childcare could work but would it be available to all?

[Strix]

Olgaga

I guess I meant "third party employment". Do you think it is fair for working third partied employed people to have to pay their own childcare and also that of those who choose not to work? Then, the cycle goes that thos employed people work longer to pay those taxes and see their own children even less so those who chose not to be employed can see theirs more.

What is the relevance of NMW when we are discussing a client fee and not a salary?

[LexyMa]

sorry morethanpotato, it wasn't a real suggestion - I couldn't at that moment bring to mind a better shorthand for a nanny qualification!

[AnnoyedAtWork]

I will be ruined if it is capped at 5yo! I literally will go to Downing Street and protest!

Have to pay for after school and before school care as me and DP both work full time 40 mins travel away from school.

It really gets my goat how people moan about the new CB policy / this new policy on only giving ccare help to working people "punishing sahps "

I would love to afford either me or DP to stay at home! Dual income families NEED childcare in order to work and pay tax.

[AnnoyedAtWork]

Have signed the e petition

[HappyMummyOfOne]

The current voucher system was easy to do at source but a lot of employers pulled out as the maternity loophole that many women used meant it cost them to much to run it so thise that cannot claim them may now be able to.

Strix, not a windup re paying for others childcare. Currently one partner only working can claim the vouchers so the SAHP can have childcare. It always seemed a daft situation. If they want to help people work, then there should be safeguards in place to ensure all adults in the household work.

[olgaga]

I'm afraid I don't understand the point you're making. Most SAHP's I know worked and paid tax before having their children - in my case for 24 years. Their employed spouses pay tax.

The point of the free nursery places for two year olds (which I don't agree with, by the way) is that it is supposed to be beneficial for children, and it is a guaranteed subsidy for the childcare industry. It is not new money, it has been taken from the SureStart budget (that's why I don't agree with it).

Your argument reminds me of people who say "We don't have kids so why should we pay taxes so that other people's kids can go to school and get free childcare?" or "I never have to go to the Doctor so why should I pay my taxes so that smokers and drinkers get free health care".

The relevance of the NMW level (which is actually £6.19ph) is that the childminders in your area, asking for £7ph for extremely demanding work are not exactly pricing themselves out of the market, are they! I bet they have waiting lists as long as your arm.

Where do you think a childcare subsidy would come from, if not from more taxation?

Children need to be cared for, it's not as though that comes as a surprise to anyone surely? If you don't want to do it yourself, you pay someone else to do it.

Why moan about people who choose to care for their own children as though they are some kind of burden? Most SAHP's I know do some kind of voluntary work for schools and charities, or they are also caring for elderly parents.

Most childminders are parents who choose to do it despite the low pay so they can work at home and be there for their own children. If they all gave up and went out to work, who do you think would look after the children whose parents work outside the home?

[olgaga]

I meant to add to my post, in relation to the free childcare subsidy, that most nurseries would face closure without it. Their profit margins are extremely small as it is.

[PolkadotCircus]

Exactly what Lily said further down.