Tell me about getting in to a selective STATE grammar school please.

[LupusinaLlamasuit]

Yes, yes, yes. I know. It is wrong and shabby and my socialist principles will have to go in the bin and I will have to hand back my Trotsky hat and badge blah blah blah.

It is probably even MORE wrong than a private selective school.

But we are weighing up all the options, and the most likely is still the decent 'normal' state school just up the road.

But I just want to have a look at it (the out of county selective grammar) and see. So before I do, I need to know what I need to know IYSWIM. There will be examinations and 'inside information' and stuff won't there?

He is very bright but guess he will need practice papers, yes? Is it worth doing the exam just to see or is that too stressful allround and do we risk losing a place at the local school therein?

Thanks

[mumblechum]

See that's your problem. If you're that far out of catchment it's pretty unlikely you'd get a place. Try ringing your LEA now to find out what their practice is.

[LupusinaLlamasuit]

The school does say there is no geographical catchment area though. Or is this just something they all say anyway?

[mumblechum]

No, that's good news LL. DS's school's catchment area is about 4 miles, less if there are a lot of applicants.

[ilovetochat]

i went to grammar school in the 90s and lived 8 miles away and caught the bus, was out of the house 7.30 till 4.30 on a good day. i needed lifts to every sports event and lifts to visit all my friends as they lived so far away. if you send your dc 20-30 miles to school please be prepared to ferry them round for the next 7 years.

[carmenelectra]

Hello

We are helping our ds who is in yr 5 to hopefully gain a place a grammar next yr.

I have found the 11+ website a great help and there are discussions for all different parts of the country.

DS also has a private tutor who he has been going to for about 4 or 5 mths. There has been a massive improvement in him during this time. We are not excessively coaching him though. Someone else said that achild needs to get 95% in a timed exam. perhaps not quite that much, but certainly a high mark(high 8o's at least)

Waterstones have loads of material, practice papers, mock tests etc.

Our ds is bright, but school have never mentioned that he is anything special as such and he doesnt always apply himself.

To be honest, i think it would be difficult to get into grammar without a little bit of coaching as the test often covers very different stuff to the national curriculum.

Id make the 11+ site your first port of call just to seee what is required for the school you want.

[Milliways]

We bought papers from WHSmiths and did them at home.

I had no idea really with DD - who really never "got" non-verbal reasoning tests, and so she went happily to the local comp.

DS wanted to try so we were more prepared and did more papers (although different tests for his school involved Maths & Eng comp + essay etc) and he DID get in.

I could not afford a tutor - or to pay for a prep school, but if you practice the timed papers at home you should be OK with a child who is bright enough to cope at the GS.

[margotfonteyn]

At the GS school mine go/went to they say they only use the primary school's report in the case of a tied place.

Everywhere is different. Ours doesn't have a catchment area as such so lots of my DS2's (the one who is still there!)friends travel quite a long way, some about 30miles I would think. It is a bit ridiculous. There are buses but some parents must drive them everyday. Also you have to pay for the bus.

It can be a pain with after school activities, eg he has to be back by 6 this eve for house music so am glad we only live a few miles away. You should bear that in mind. That is exactly the sort of thing I would not have thought about with DC1 in my excitement about the school, and also how you will do all the running about with other children in tow.

(However, I know I would have decided any distance was ok, but trying to give 'proper' advice here)

[amidaiwish]

i went to sixth form 15 miles away, my choice, i wouldn't recommend it though. Out of the house at 7am not back til 5.30 - doesnt leave much time for homework or any after school activities.
Think long and hard about the physical toll of such a commute if you're not going to drive them. If you are going to drive them then do think about the impact on you.

[Fennel]

Have removed my Trotskyite hat (difficult job) but still would struggle with removing green hat (in terms of transport impact), and even then I wouldn't do it, I think childhood shoulnd't be wasted in long commutes. I loathe commuting to work myself, and go to great lengths not to do it, so why impose that on a child when they could instead be meandering casually down the road to the local school?

[ingles2]

you're right Lupus, I think it's going to be highly competitive for the next few years.
My ds is just finishing yr 4. He is very bright, his SATs levels are in the high 4's & 5's atm. I was planning to send him to a tutor for practice papers but it was recommended to me today due to the high number of admissions... eek... I thought he'd sail it!
In the mean time, have you done any verbal / non verbal reasoning tests? you can get them at WHSmith.. Bonds papers.
Ds1 will have to travel for about 45 mins each way (assuming he gets in :-)) but as we are rural, it's kind of expected anyway.
Heronsfly... I'm Kent,...can I have your insider info please

[thedolly]

andiem - how do you find out info like that?

LL - ring the LEA - they will give you information on the pass mark for the particular school (which can be as high as 90+%) and then you can decide whether or not you want your child to to labelled a failure because they only got 90%

[andiem]

thedolly by being involved in child health in the area concerned so seeing the referral patterns it is very marked and quite shocking tbh

my ds1 is being tutored not for the grammar but for private school and he does the bonds papers with the tutor
our state primaries do not prepare the children for the grammar entry at all which is wrong I think as they are 2 of the state schools in the area

[thedolly]

thanks andiem, very ing indeed

[margotfonteyn]

The difference between getting a place at my DCs grammar school and not, is ridiculous. It becomes a lottery in the end. Many do get 100% I am sure. 96% and you may not get in.I told all my 3 they most certainly wouldn't be a failure if they didn't get in.

But you do have to go into it with your eyes open as to how competitive the test is. Mine went to v ordinary state primary by the MC standards of where we live. They were the only 1 or 2 in their year to get in. The intake is dominated by private schools these days, didn't use to be, but they have cottoned on to 'free' education equivalent to the top private schools locally, and some of them are v. prestigious (not fair, but another argument I am currently on in Education...don't ask).

Once there, at our GS, it is not full of girls with eating disorders and competitive parents. It is actually full of quite reasonable and very normal parents with very normal children.

Once they are there, it is fine. It's the getting in that is so stressful.

[BodenGroupie]

Yes - I do. Fantastic school but the few of us whose DDs are that far away all feel that it's had an impact on their health. DD1 gets on the (very expensive) bus at 7am and gets back in the door at 5pm. She has always been the child who needed no sleep, even when she was a baby, but is now flagging in Year 10. Actually missed a whole term last year with an undiagnosed illness which I think was probably related to complete exhaustion.

Also - are you prepared in the early years to drive them to friends at the weekend or having the friends staying with you on a frequent basis?

Now that she's 15, it's also harder to control what she gets up to at the weekends because so many of her friends live near school.

Another point (sorry, I do go on a bit) is after school clubs/outside school activities - these have been very restricted because of the long day/transport issues.

That's all the negatives - she's getting a fantastic education - I would say it's worth it, but go into it with your eyes open.

[LupusinaLlamasuit]

Thanks all. V helpful. Yes, the long commute is worth considering very carefully for all the reasons you mention...

[LupusinaLlamasuit]

Jeez, have just looked at the tests. No doubt he will be able to cope with the intellectual challenge but the technique and method business would need a LOT of work (he isn't especially methodical in his thinking!)

And long talk with him and DH tonight. It's so tough trying to decide what is best.

I am, in principle, against selective education; yet believe strongly he will need to be challenged appropriately - and can't see how you do this without some selection - streaming or otherwise.

And how do people make the choice(s) between academic achievement, distance, social and personal skills, competition and pressure against goals which are achievable. Argh!

Sorry to bore on (I guess year after year middle class education angst pours onto this board on this very issue, huh? )...

[LupusinaLlamasuit]

And let's just be clear: I do, in the end, want him to be happy. As long as it is studying Maths at Cambridge.

No, I'm joking Cambridge is shite really, I do want him to find out what he wants. Even if that is breeding rabbits in a City Farm while playing banjo for pennies in the street. But until that happens, it's my job to keep his options open for him isn't it...?

[Fennel]

Am trying not to get sucked into yet another education debate. but...

Are you saying you think his options will be closed by going to the "decent normal state school" up the road?

Is that because you feel your comp education curtailed your options in life?

[LupusinaLlamasuit]

I don't know Fennel. I have just been discussing this very issue with DH. I do have a bit of a chip on my shoulder, not about my comp education, but my shite one. Big geeky fish, very small pond (the only one of two people from my small and second-bottom of the list of inner city schools to get enough O levels to do A levels etc).

Chucked into bigger ponds, I struggled to motivate myself. I don't want DS1 to have to face that later, rather than earlier, IYSWIM.

I am most worried about him getting sucked into a macho culture of 'not doing learning'. I don't know what the solution is.

I suspect mostly, trying to be reflexive and all, this is just Going to Big School Anxiety, isn't it?

[mrsruffallo]

I think when you feel let down by your state education then you are constantly struggling to keep the tiger under control

[TheFallenMadonna]

I don't know of any comprehensive school that doesn't set, usually by subject, and from very, very early on. Even the humanities are getting in on the act from year 7 in my school.

If you are after the highly selective whole school, then that is one thing. But the alternative isn't mixed ability teaching by any means.

[Quattrocento]

Reflexive or reflective?

Our experience of the 11+ was that it wasn't a big deal. We practised some papers with DD to make sure she got the hang of timed conditions. They had a really good and informative parents evening - the ability range is around the top 20%, they said. Your teachers at school would prob tell you if it is a goer (but expect you probably know yourself anyway).

Some people go really nuts about the 11+ - and hire tutors and stuff. Seems mad to me but apparently it is common.

Seriously would think twice about a 20 mile round trip or whatever - can't you move closer?

[Angstisme]

I wouldn't take a job 30 miles away, is it one bus or will he have to change ?

[LupusinaLlamasuit]

See, now, Angst & QC, I haven't even thought that far ahead

Yes. It is sounding madder by the minute, the idea of him commuting to school. The local comp is good. GCSE results 20% better than local and national average. Rounded curriculum. Lots of extra stuff. 10 minute bus ride with all his mates. Which sounds fine to me.

I've just got notions in my head of giving him the best possible education, and not abandoning him to the slavering lions that are Big Boys who Smoke and Bully Laugh at Geeks.